How fallout 3 might actually be plausible.

[Wish I had a cool name9]

Yes I know i'm taking the devils advocate here and their is plenty negative to say about how they set it up but some things actually make sense if you see it from the view of a society in its death throes.

One common statement is how their are more more raiders than and slavers than ordinary humans. Seriously how the hell or these guys surviving. My answer is they aren't, the slavers from the pitt and the super mutants have picked the the place dry and without victims the slavers turned on each other becoming raiders who are killing and eating each other alive(literally). Its like a virus killing off its host.

My complaint is with the the Enclave showing up for apparently no reason(why do they need the purifier, I though they could just release FEV into the air). Then things go from contrived to absurd when they show up with a giant movable fortress.

If they had left the Enclave out and made it a battle between the Brotherhood, the Super Mutants and Raider then it would have made more sense.

 

[woo1108]

it's not the matter of reason but matter of game.
there's nothing makes fo3 game as a RPG.
there's nothing you have to think, nothing you have to do and nothing responds your action. just following quest marker, choosing dialog option meaninglessly and shooting meaninglessly. it can't be accept as Fallout nor RPG.
and as FPS, it's POS.

and it's not plausible neither.
what they eat? 200 old food?
it's not 10 after apocalypse, it's 200 old!
I don't think they made enough food to bear 200 years.
other media about PA, they start civilization only after less than 10 years!
People should grow their crops to eat, build proper house to live and made safe town to settle.
human is too weak animal to live as wild animal.
we need some place with food, bed and safety
but 200 years without them? seriously?

 

[Atomic Postman]

You formatted your last paragraph as if it were a poem.

How odd.

 

[Wish I had a cool name9]

Actually it has all the elements of an RPG, choices (like blowing up megaton) customize character(traits, skills ect). I thought it was more linear than either Fallout 2 or New Vegas. In 2 you practically have to do certain things like get a fuel chip for your car to get anywhere in the game as well as follow a predetermined path. In Vegas your led in a counter clockwise path until spending most of the game in Vegas gambling and doing odd jobs.

In 3 you had the opportunity to take quest that sent you to different areas, like the quest from Lucy, that leads you north and then west, or blowing up megaton which leads you closer to your dad but farther from knowledge of his whereabouts.

I think the first half of 3 is great, its the second half that is annoying, preachy, and feels scripted. I wish that instead of finding that your dad left to save humanity that you find your dad just got sick of life in the Vault in didn't care enough to take you with him.

 

[Oppen]

Actually it has all the elements of an RPG, choices (like blowing up megaton) customize character(traits, skills ect).

And the consequences are? You don't even fail the quest with Moira Brown. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't keep working with someone who just blew up my hometown, murdered all of my loved ones and turned me into a ghoul. Just sayin'.

In 2 you practically have to do certain things like get a fuel chip for your car to get anywhere in the game

You don't need the car.

as well as follow a predetermined path.

You can follow whatever path you want. You can completely skip most towns, if you know where you need to head to.


Also, it doesn't make sense, nor the raiders and such, nor the general state of affairs, nor the mutants at all. It's been discussed in lenght several times. If you want to know why I say those things, I'd rather point you to look for my posts (you can see them through my profile).

 

[Makta]

and it's not plausible neither.
what they eat? 200 old food?
it's not 10 after apocalypse, it's 200 old!
I don't think they made enough food to bear 200 years.
other media about PA, they start civilization only after less than 10 years!
People should grow their crops to eat, build proper house to live and made safe town to settle.
human is too weak animal to live as wild animal.
we need some place with food, bed and safety
but 200 years without them? seriously?

There are actually several farms around the wasteland but they do actually lack vegetation in most of them.. But hey i could live with meat

 

[woo1108]

They got huge agriculture center!
and they got Plenty of plenty of pure water!
so that's enough.
actually even Fo1 is same with Wasteland.
Shady sand looks only town where crops grow but no
other town also grows crops but just skipped.
but at fo3 they hardly get pure water so it's hard to think they can grow their crops.

Actually it has all the elements of an RPG, choices, customize character(traits, skills ect). I thought it was more linear than either Fallout 2 or New Vegas.

These are just desert. think about a meal. meal without desert is still a meal but desert without meal isn't meal.
and actually there's no trait BTW.

skills, perks are not the essential thing of RPG. even non-RPG game has this element.

and for linear, fo3 is linear. it looks like it's non-linear but no.
think about wire. for fo3(+oblivion+skyrim) is just dump of short linear wires. sometimes it looks nonlinear but it's actually just dump of linear wires. actually it's not a wire it's just dump of useless trash from wire because it's not connected each other.

other Fallouts? they are non-linear. but I skip about explain them. at least they are wire that connected each other and non-linear.

since the world isn't connected each other, choices mean nothing. that's just decoration. not works as game.

the most important thing to explain is what is most important thing of RPG.

it's quest. today quest means a tasks that gives you reward. it's too sad thing. the quest is your journey it self.
at journey, most important thing is your try. what should I do to continue this journey? how to overcome this situation? these two is the most important thing. different choice, different result, rule, tool, etc are just decoration for that.
problem is, two main thing is erased from fo3.
Auto journal and quest marker erase this two.
what you do is just following questmarker and do what autojournal said. there's noting makes you player but just worker. that's the reason I said it's not a RPG.

I think the first half of 3 is great, its the second half that is annoying, preachy, and feels scripted. I wish that instead of finding that your dad left to save humanity that you find your dad just got sick of life in the Vault in didn't care enough to take you with him.

for me I think they should extend mainquest so player should travel wasteland more to complete them. they waste too much things thanks you poor mainquest. and should erase auto journal and quest marker. quest design itself is actually not bad but they used it poorly. and they should connect quest each other. that's the big different thing between NV and fo3. there are many quests in NV and not all the quests are good. some quests are too simple. but they are meaningful because the quests are connected each other thanks for reputation, connection between quest, etc.

 

[Akratus]

and it's not plausible neither.
what they eat? 200 old food?
it's not 10 after apocalypse, it's 200 old!
I don't think they made enough food to bear 200 years.
other media about PA, they start civilization only after less than 10 years!
People should grow their crops to eat, build proper house to live and made safe town to settle.
human is too weak animal to live as wild animal.
we need some place with food, bed and safety
but 200 years without them? seriously?

There are actually several farms around the wasteland but they do actually lack vegetation in most of them.. But hey i could live with meat

But there's no farmers. And those places always get infested with deathclaws/giant ants/giant scorpions/enclave, and the brahmin get killed.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

and it's not plausible neither.
what they eat? 200 old food?
it's not 10 after apocalypse, it's 200 old!
I don't think they made enough food to bear 200 years.
other media about PA, they start civilization only after less than 10 years!
People should grow their crops to eat, build proper house to live and made safe town to settle.
human is too weak animal to live as wild animal.
we need some place with food, bed and safety
but 200 years without them? seriously?

There are actually several farms around the wasteland but they do actually lack vegetation in most of them.. But hey i could live with meat

But there's no farmers. And those places always get infested with deathclaws/giant ants/giant scorpions/enclave, and the brahmin get killed.

Then eat the deathclaw / giant ants / scorpions / enclave.

I wonder why there's no deathclaw meat in the game.

 

[woo1108]

talking about meat, I wonder why they didn't invent much dish anyway? I bet meat of those mutate animal taste sucks.

 

[Makta]

But there's no farmers. And those places always get infested with deathclaws/giant ants/giant scorpions/enclave, and the brahmin get killed.

Unless my memory failed me again i posted a few picture in a thread a while back with several farms that i've never seen under attack unless i lured something there so i'm not sure where your deathclaws are comming from

Then eat the deathclaw / giant ants / scorpions / enclave.

I wonder why there's no deathclaw meat in the game.

Jokes aside i think there are a few mentions of people eating some tasty ants...

 

[Yamu]

actually even Fo1 is same with Wasteland.
Shady sand looks only town where crops grow but no
other town also grows crops but just skipped.

I don't mean to nitpick, but in the first game, almost every location has at least the suggestion of agriculture on display, and the ones that don't are typically trader towns located a convenient distance from at least one that does.

*Shady Sands, we've covered.
*The Raiders, obviously, raid for what they need.
*Junktown is Shady Sands' best trading partner and is a not-unmanageable distance from The Hub, as well.
*The Hub's crops can be seen behind a farm shed, on the left side of the main road into town. They're positioned to suggest there are more beyond the map's edge.
*Necropolis... eyugh. Don't wanna think about it. I'm not sure ghouls still even need to eat, though. They do obviously need water, but they've got that in spades.
*The Boneyard has both Adytum's crops on the south side of town and their hydroponic farms.
*The Brotherhood trades for all their food, and a point is made of that in this and future games.
*The Cathedral is less than a day's shopping trip from the Boneyard.

Junktown relying so heavily on trade when it wouldn't have been on a trade route to anywhere when it was founded is a little dodgy, but aside from that, everything is justified. We don't know where they get their food at Mariposa, but given the reach of the Unity and the fact that the rest of the world is so fleshed out, we can assume they're getting it from somewhere. For that matter, most of 2 is just as good about this sort of thing if I recall, with only a few exceptions. Even San Francisco and New Reno, the most logic-resistant locations in the series up to that point, took a stab at explaining away the question with a sea-based diet and heavy trade, respectively. F3, on the other hand... well, you know. You could technically handwave the issue in the same way Fallout fans have had to do for things like location sizes and onscreen NPC populations since the beginning of the series, but it was the F3 devs' choice to put the game into Gamebryo so that nothing was offscreen and then talk up "immersion" at length as a way to sell it, so they don't get a pass here.

In short, the devil's in the details, and details are where 3 falls shortest of all (except for the area design-- the guys in charge of that were all aces and obviously did their work with love). I do sympathize with the writers, though. I like to play a little game with myself, especially when I'm a shade or two off sober, where I take all the central elements the project leads must have wanted included in Fallout 3 and try to jury-rig them into a functional setting and plot. It's just not possible. You can come up with some compelling failures, but without dropping two or three of the recycled elements from past games, you're talking about c-grade fanfiction at best.

 

[woo1108]

I forgot about Boneyard's mushroom.
I mean only for visual. I said "looks like." but they have their way to earn food just skipped.

 

[Yamu]

I know it. Not trying to be argumentative either, sorry. I just wanted to point out that The Hub and The Boneyard do have actual, visible crops (in The Boneyard, in two separate places), mainly because I've had versions of this discussion more than once with friends (who think I'm some kind of Scrooge for docking F3 points due to its world design sins) and they like to throw this particular corollary of the "The first games did it too!" argument in my face when I bring up food and water.

 

[woo1108]

I saw lots of fo3 fanboys talk like that in my country.
I doubt they really played Fo1 or they just following what walkthrough says.

 

[Stanislao Moulinsky]

Actually it has all the elements of an RPG, choices (like blowing up megaton)

Other examples?

customize character(traits, skills ect)

FO3 doesn't have traits.

 

[LonesomeDrifter]

As I was trying to come up some good points to explain Fallout 3 can be legit, I simply can't. The more I delve into the, the higher my hatred grows. Megaton receives its food income only by trading caravans, who get the meat from GOD knows where! The little farms that populate the areas around

The Capital Wasteland is a nearly inhospitable and violent area.

Clearly written and to the point. I won't judge if the place would look as it did in Fallout 3 if what happened would have happened, but it certainly wouldn't sport such a hidious civilization as it does in F3.

Purified water is extremely scarce as well as any kind of fresh food. There is little flora, with the dead husks of trees littering the area.

And the above quote just sends Megaton and other such settlements, especially Tenpenny Tower off. In a hostile world where food and water is scarce, seeing a giant tower in the middle of nothing, almost ignoring the misery that has settled around, as a big, fat steak on a white, empty table. Even if the raiders, scum of the wasteland couldn't have breached into the tower... Tenpenny needs to rely on caravans to bring in the stuff (FROM GOD KNOWS WHERE). Wouldn't that be awfully lot raided? And above all else... FROM WHERE do they get so much stuff to be traded to make the life of the folk over in Tenpenny as luxurious as possible!

Beyond drugs, people are trying to manufacture new goods, grow food and even have their own version of "wasteland recycling". Rivet City is currently the only producer of non-irradiated food and is working on portable fusion power. Point Lookout has also proven to be a reliable source of supply, especially its punga fruit.

Oh, alright. So, someone wants to prove it can be legit. Rivet City, some town made in a ship, and to be able to trade with ANYONE, stuff has to go from the southernmost point of the ruined D.C., THROUGH the ruined D.C. and then to the points. Good luck with that.

And what's with that... provider of food? They grow it out of what... metal and piss on it? I haven't seen a DAMN thing that proves they grow ANYTHING besides troubles! Alright, we have Point Lookout that gives in punga fruit. But the extent of travel that has to be put behind it, the danger of getting the fruit and shipping it TO Rivet City, from where it's transported around... that fruit would cost me so many bottle caps, I think I'd finally get to use the wheelbarrow!
*All quotes taken directly from the Fallout Wiki:http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Capital_Wasteland

Then there's the horrible Three Dog and his place in D.C., the over friendly and open Brotherhood of Steel.

Lyons believes he has a responsibility to protect the people of the Capital Wasteland from the super mutant threat. His knights have forgone the mission to recover new technology, and instead acts as a kind of security force.

Unlike the chivalrous knights of old, members of the Brotherhood are not interested in justice for the obviously weaker and less fortunate around them, but instead in keeping their secrecy and preserving and developing technology.

Mhm.

I could go on like that, but... point is. Anything besides a few area designs and some scenes... the game offers NOTHING to be taken seriously and simply proves that if you rolled out with one genre... you keep with it. Don't change ways, or it can happen what F3 did.

 

[Wish I had a cool name9]

And the consequences are? You don't even fail the quest with Moira Brown. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't keep working with someone who just blew up my hometown, murdered all of my loved ones and turned me into a ghoul. Just sayin'.

But know she'll liive forever and have plenty of time to write her book. As far as the people in megaton she knows you can't say sorry to people that are dead.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05akmWwvzBQ

 

[Makta]

And what's with that... provider of food? They grow it out of what... metal and piss on it? I haven't seen a DAMN thing that proves they grow ANYTHING besides troubles! Alright, we have Point Lookout that gives in punga fruit. But the extent of travel that has to be put behind it, the danger of getting the fruit and shipping it TO Rivet City, from where it's transported around... that fruit would cost me so many bottle caps, I think I'd finally get to use the wheelbarrow!
*All quotes taken directly from the Fallout Wiki:http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Capital_Wasteland

You haven't seen a damn thing? So i guess you skipped the tour in the lab

And the route to RC is not going trough the DC ruins but outside. This is even easier to notice if you are playing broken steel where they have caravans going that route with no real danger besides mirelurkers.. That the BOS is killing off? and a small gang of bandits.

 

[Oppen]

But know she'll liive forever and have plenty of time to write her book. As far as the people in megaton she knows you can't say sorry to people that are dead.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05akmWwvzBQ

So, am I supposed to believe she won't even be pissed off? Seriously? Come on!
She would probably continue with the book, that's not what I implied that should get your quest failed, but the fact there is no way on earth (neither in Fallout's earth) she would agree to keep working with you. You nuked her goddamned home, for god's sake!