Political beliefs
- Thread starter Pablosdog
- Start date
quietfanatic
Ancient One
Centre left in Australia.
We've had a couple of spammy Political Compass results, that I find interesting.
E.g.
http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7148
http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15263
There was a nice diagram by calculon000 somewhere.
We've had a couple of spammy Political Compass results, that I find interesting.
E.g.
http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7148
http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15263
There was a nice diagram by calculon000 somewhere.
I believe democracy is breaking down in a global sense and showing its major flaws, which is the lack of elbow room of politicians and the inability of voters to look at the long term, as they grow and fester. Democracy, like every other system before it, is starting to crumble. No shock there.
Other than that, I guess I'm fairly to the left of the centre. I'm too pragmatic to have any party loyalties or predictability of voting, though. I usually vote the Social Party in Holland for European and local elections, since their platforms and pro-active attitudes are strongest on both, but last national elections I voted Christian Union, an ethically conservative and social-economical left-liberal party, as I found them closer to what the country needs.
Eh.
Other than that, I guess I'm fairly to the left of the centre. I'm too pragmatic to have any party loyalties or predictability of voting, though. I usually vote the Social Party in Holland for European and local elections, since their platforms and pro-active attitudes are strongest on both, but last national elections I voted Christian Union, an ethically conservative and social-economical left-liberal party, as I found them closer to what the country needs.
Eh.
Yeah I agree that democracy is starting to get a bit wear and tear. Canadian society I think has an identity crises, we all have our opinions, but mostly its a lot of questions asked, nothing really solved.
I didn't vote this year(provincial elections) due to the fact that I don't think I'm responsible enough to make a reasonable decision. Even if it's only one vote it still effects everyone around me. Too many selfish voters voting on characteristics, that's a problem with democracy. "I voted for guy 1 because guy 2 lied about this and that."Jon Tory, the leading conservative thought it imperative to bring up the issue of faith based schooling, basically election suicide, so everyone ended up voting for the lesser of two evils.(liberal candidate won)
Perfect example I guess more of simple mindedness then Democracy, but democracy will really fail due to ignorance of issues that the general public is unaware of or decides not to care about. Canada isn't always so bad, i just wish the population was more decisive on there voting.
I didn't vote this year(provincial elections) due to the fact that I don't think I'm responsible enough to make a reasonable decision. Even if it's only one vote it still effects everyone around me. Too many selfish voters voting on characteristics, that's a problem with democracy. "I voted for guy 1 because guy 2 lied about this and that."Jon Tory, the leading conservative thought it imperative to bring up the issue of faith based schooling, basically election suicide, so everyone ended up voting for the lesser of two evils.(liberal candidate won)
Perfect example I guess more of simple mindedness then Democracy, but democracy will really fail due to ignorance of issues that the general public is unaware of or decides not to care about. Canada isn't always so bad, i just wish the population was more decisive on there voting.
Wow, you guys are the first people I've met that also seem to believe that democracy is crumbling.
I'd say I'm a centrist, except I believe that socialized medicine is a necessity. I find myself voting more for those that bring balance to the parliament, rather than those that I actually believe in.
I'd say I'm a centrist, except I believe that socialized medicine is a necessity. I find myself voting more for those that bring balance to the parliament, rather than those that I actually believe in.
Specialist said:
I hardly think it's a matter of believe. Outside of neo-con circles, it's pretty much accepted fact that Fukuyama was an idiot (that's just fact, period), the end of history never happened and will never happen and that democracy, just like every other system of governance before it and after it, is just another system that is born, spreads, peaks and crumbles.
I doubt everyone agrees that the time it's crumbling is now, and I'm not so sure myself, but that it will crumble is not really a question, more an assertion of fact.
Quoted for truth. I've been waiting on a revolution since grade school, which probably tells you a bit about where my politics lie, as well.
I generally favor small, leave-me-the-hell alone, strictly constitutional government, and I tend to the left on those few choice issues that I don't straddle the fence on-- kind of a Jeffersonian Democrat without the slaves, if you will. I suppose you could call me a moderate liberal, though I think that the group labelling themselves moderates AND the group labelling themselves liberals in my country present themselves as complete idiots. Conservatives actually have a few decent ideas when it comes to finances and gun control, but their positions on big business, the environment, and religion in government scare the hell out of me when they're not disgusting or enraging me.
Of course, since I live in America and I don't vote Democrat or Republican, I suppose the short answer would be "I'm one of the people whose opinion isn't functionally worth a damn to anyone."
I generally favor small, leave-me-the-hell alone, strictly constitutional government, and I tend to the left on those few choice issues that I don't straddle the fence on-- kind of a Jeffersonian Democrat without the slaves, if you will. I suppose you could call me a moderate liberal, though I think that the group labelling themselves moderates AND the group labelling themselves liberals in my country present themselves as complete idiots. Conservatives actually have a few decent ideas when it comes to finances and gun control, but their positions on big business, the environment, and religion in government scare the hell out of me when they're not disgusting or enraging me.
Of course, since I live in America and I don't vote Democrat or Republican, I suppose the short answer would be "I'm one of the people whose opinion isn't functionally worth a damn to anyone."
quietfanatic
Ancient One
I don't see democracy crumbling any time soon. Why would people say that now, when many of the flaws don't seem to be that different to past decades?
Although flawed, it seems to be a robust system suitable for developed nations with an educated Middle Class. With economic development and increased education, I would expect developing countries to become more democratic, but not Western democracies to replace democracy with significantly different systems. What alternatives would there be? The behaviour of politicians (and the electorate) and laws will likely change, such as in response to climate change and mass migration, but the systems will likely still be clearly recognisable as democracies.
Although flawed, it seems to be a robust system suitable for developed nations with an educated Middle Class. With economic development and increased education, I would expect developing countries to become more democratic, but not Western democracies to replace democracy with significantly different systems. What alternatives would there be? The behaviour of politicians (and the electorate) and laws will likely change, such as in response to climate change and mass migration, but the systems will likely still be clearly recognisable as democracies.
quietfanatic said:
Flaws never change, it just takes a while before the flaws hit critical highs.
1. Europe is ill-suited to handle the current demographic shifts in both the aging of their population and the immigration level within the limited elbow framework democracy offers.
2. The USA is incapable handling the current issues of impending financial crises and the long-term issues of economic recession (and, arguably, issues in international politics) within the short term vision democracy offers.
3. Democracy is de facto "the sick old man" of the world, much like the Ottoman Empire at the start of the 20th century. Liberal democratic countries are losing headway in the world's economic and political picture while it is not at all clear if their replacements (South America and Asia) will adapt any form of democracy while developing, let alone when done developing.
The assumption that the advent of a middle class means a democratic system by definition is typical Western arrogance, but is in no case a historic inevitability except in countries with very Western and/or Enlightened histories (Russia, Greece and, arguably, Turkey)
4. In a global sense, democracy is not equipped to answer the major issue of the impending energy crisis and the smaller issue of global warming. Since these are both issues that threaten the very existence of humanity on the outside but at least represent a serious drop in quality of living for all of humanity, any political system that can not provide answers (democracy, but also any political system based on populism, like China's current form of socialism) is obsolete by definition.
quietfanatic said:
That is always the wrong question. Nobody predicted the fall of the SU and yet it still fell. The moment humanity can imagine something, like Francis Fukayama and his end of history, it is very unlikely that that something will ever happen.
The alternative isn't readily offered now, the alternative will be born out of pure necessity the moment these problems named above that democracy can not solve reach a critical phase. That is the beauty of humanity throughout history. Never has a political system changed simply because people wanted it to, political systems have been born out of necessity. And that wonderful capability to adapt and evolve systems is exactly why humanity has survived and prospered, as such a framework has offered a lot of room for evolution.
It'll be a sad day to see conservative-minded people jump on the barricades to defend and obsolete system like democracy, hence fighting and spilling blood to delay the inevitable evolution of systems that always happens.
I guess that's what we're already seeing happen, come to think of it.
quietfanatic said:
You actually expect human behaviour to significantly change within the frameworks of democracy? Are you serious? Historically, that would be a singular event. And the thing with singular events is that they're very unlikely to happen.
See, the problem here is that democracy is not a perfect system. There are no perfect systems simply because humanity is flawed. The only conceivable way a perfect system could be born and thrive is by humanity shedding its imperfections (see: Marx' theory of the eventual communist society). Unless you expect some kind of blitzkreig evolution of humanity within a few short decades, I don't see how humans could "become" flawless enough to offer answers to their problems with the current system.
The next system will be imperfect too. But that's not a problem, as long as it gives answers to our current problems. Then, in a few centuries, new problems will be born from flaws of the system, and the system will be replaced. There is no problem there, there never has been a problem with that, except for the fact that conservative-minded people will always cling to their old systems, and slaughter upon slaughter happens in the fight to stop the inevitable.
Social Libertarian
(no censorship, freedom to choose whatever you want as long as it hurts no one else, small government)
Economic Conservative
(minimal spending and taxes, progressive income tax curve and consumption tax)
Socialized health and school (the only two social programs I agree with, all other should be non-existent,. School should give two meals a day to students and go all year round, and be longer during the day, and graduate a couple years earlier)
Pro-military/Non-Interventionist (Large standing army and a distaste for foreign war. Military should be used side by side with the peace corps and red cross, it should absorb FEMA, the NSA, the CIA, and the department of homeland security, and should be used for civil programs such as city beautification and road construction. Our military should be a program to promote peace until the strong arm of force is needed and suddenly our enemies realize those peace lovers in the military are deadly, well trained, and numerous)
I essentially want to minimize or cut out every existing government program. That includes removal of all welfare programs and the dissolution of unnecessary facets of government, such as having marriages be legally binding, allowing tax cuts for religions, and social security. I do agree with tax cuts for anyone with a child or dependent, tax breaks to the handicapped, and tax breaks to starting businesses (the tax benefits should be strictly removed after they achieve a certain percentage of return and yearly income and/or age)
I also believe that businesses should have very few rights, and that intellectual properties should only restrict commerce, but not proliferation.
Overall simplicity should be an aim for government to promote knowledge of the law and ease of use, not to mention judicial reform. Technically I am a republican, because I want our government to be more of a republic and less of a democracy, as I see majority vote as very unfair to minority points of view. (still many democratic processes and a focus on checks and balances though)
I am for gay rights, religious rights, minority rights, etc etc, pro scientific advancement, pro choice, and anti-death penalty.
I plan to vote for Ron Paul, despite being a republican that is pro-life and anti-gay beliefs, because he wants to disassemble as much of our government as he can get his hands on.
Ron Paul 2008!
It's ridiculous, because recently Ron Paul has a massive grass roots campaign, yesterday alone there was a fund raising for him and in one day he received 4.5 million dollars (give or take) in donations from people like myself, in under 24 hours. The media has been shutting him out though, downplaying him as the underdog, although he has perhaps the largest grass-roots campaign support that a candidate has had in this country in over 50 years.
The man carries around copy of our god damned constitution with him. I couldn't be more in love with his ideals.
FYI, hes anti-war, and also has the largest backing by the military of any candidate out there. He may be the man who can save our countries public image yet.
So, to sum it all up, I'm a wishy washy moderate/libertarian/conservative/liberal/constitutionalist/futurist/republican in the American political spectrum
although honestly, I never did expect to see the day when I would be voting republican 
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vCujXOsFh0[/youtube]
(no censorship, freedom to choose whatever you want as long as it hurts no one else, small government)
Economic Conservative
(minimal spending and taxes, progressive income tax curve and consumption tax)
Socialized health and school (the only two social programs I agree with, all other should be non-existent,. School should give two meals a day to students and go all year round, and be longer during the day, and graduate a couple years earlier)
Pro-military/Non-Interventionist (Large standing army and a distaste for foreign war. Military should be used side by side with the peace corps and red cross, it should absorb FEMA, the NSA, the CIA, and the department of homeland security, and should be used for civil programs such as city beautification and road construction. Our military should be a program to promote peace until the strong arm of force is needed and suddenly our enemies realize those peace lovers in the military are deadly, well trained, and numerous)
I essentially want to minimize or cut out every existing government program. That includes removal of all welfare programs and the dissolution of unnecessary facets of government, such as having marriages be legally binding, allowing tax cuts for religions, and social security. I do agree with tax cuts for anyone with a child or dependent, tax breaks to the handicapped, and tax breaks to starting businesses (the tax benefits should be strictly removed after they achieve a certain percentage of return and yearly income and/or age)
I also believe that businesses should have very few rights, and that intellectual properties should only restrict commerce, but not proliferation.
Overall simplicity should be an aim for government to promote knowledge of the law and ease of use, not to mention judicial reform. Technically I am a republican, because I want our government to be more of a republic and less of a democracy, as I see majority vote as very unfair to minority points of view. (still many democratic processes and a focus on checks and balances though)
I am for gay rights, religious rights, minority rights, etc etc, pro scientific advancement, pro choice, and anti-death penalty.
I plan to vote for Ron Paul, despite being a republican that is pro-life and anti-gay beliefs, because he wants to disassemble as much of our government as he can get his hands on.
Ron Paul 2008!
It's ridiculous, because recently Ron Paul has a massive grass roots campaign, yesterday alone there was a fund raising for him and in one day he received 4.5 million dollars (give or take) in donations from people like myself, in under 24 hours. The media has been shutting him out though, downplaying him as the underdog, although he has perhaps the largest grass-roots campaign support that a candidate has had in this country in over 50 years.
The man carries around copy of our god damned constitution with him. I couldn't be more in love with his ideals.
FYI, hes anti-war, and also has the largest backing by the military of any candidate out there. He may be the man who can save our countries public image yet.
So, to sum it all up, I'm a wishy washy moderate/libertarian/conservative/liberal/constitutionalist/futurist/republican in the American political spectrum
although honestly, I never did expect to see the day when I would be voting republican [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vCujXOsFh0[/youtube]
Generally Centrist.
And I do believe too that democracy is showing it's flaws (I debated it, quite loudly, after a few beers with a fellow law student), and sooner or later we will have to find a new answer.
For instance, turning to solutions offered by ancient philosophers, Plato or Aristotle (I do hold them in high regard and use as basis for my project).
Of course, we can always create a caste-based society and work for the Greater Good.
And I do believe too that democracy is showing it's flaws (I debated it, quite loudly, after a few beers with a fellow law student), and sooner or later we will have to find a new answer.
For instance, turning to solutions offered by ancient philosophers, Plato or Aristotle (I do hold them in high regard and use as basis for my project).
Of course, we can always create a caste-based society and work for the Greater Good.
Defending democracy by spilling blood? That is how things work when it isn't a democracy anymore. So how can you blame democracy?Brother None said:
Brother None said:
Biggest flaw in humanity. Independent thinking. Biggest strength in humanity. Independent thinking. See any problems
Communism will never work because humanity cannot work like a hive and keep it's advantages as a species(IE independent thinking). Democracy will inevitably fail because people can never agree and it assumes people are educated AND VOTE. Anarchy won't ever exist because humanity will always look to the group for support and leadership, eventually even if anarchy is obtained, someone will become a warlord and end anarchy violently. Feudalism is only a few steps above the warlord. Dictatorships which can happen in any system put is absolutely essential to communism to run effectively leaves little room for personal freedoms. Oligarchy is run by religion, obvious problems there since we don't all believe the same thing.
Democracy and the republic, while flawed as everything man made is, should give the best balance of personal choice and can exist with just enough structure to sustain itself.
In my opinion democracy is nearing the end of it's cycle and it's time for the world to remeber what fudalism feels like.
Communism is just retarded for humans. It sounds good on paper, but it never really works out because we have flaws like: Wanting to exceed, wanting to think a different way, require motivation to work, ect..
Humans are just like animals, if you want us to do something, you have to give something. If you want us to do something more, you need to give us something more. Some people won't work as hard as they could because they will get no more reward. Thats not a weakness, that is a strength in survival. It prevents us from working ourselves to death on a pointless endeavor. like a colony of ants trying to stop water flooding in, they work and they work trying to stop the water from coming in when they could evacuate the hive and start again. Ants will not relocate, they will just keep trying to fix the problem until the colony is dead. Humans will think to their own safety and abandon a failing problem so that they can survive.
As for where I am in politics, I don't really give a damn where I am, I take what I know and what I can figure out and I vote. Any of you who don't vote, stop fucking complaining.
Ah-Teen said:
What, democracies can't spill needless blood in the name of itself? Then what do you call Iraq?
Ah-Teen said:
Those are not actually the flaws of democracy.
Ah-Teen said:
Wait, which one is it?
Ah-Teen said:
What, you think we're regressing to feudalism? Why, because it's impossible for us to progress into a new system just because we haven't thought of one yet?
I am a social liberal (with really small deviations), meaning, i am strongly left aligned. I also do not think democracy is passing the test of time well. Right now, its foundations and main liberties are being twisted and bent to the shape which fits most a select group of individuals, not the people it was designed to serve and help, the common citizens. Still, it is a step forward from dictatorship and monarchy.
The Vault Dweller
always looking for water.
"Kharn's views on the collapse of Democracy" + "My political knowledge gained from recently completing both campaigns for Red Alert 2" + "The fact Kharn spent quite some time in Russia" =
Kharn's eventual new avatar?
Seriously I care about politics and keep track of current events, but I'm only a bit more knowledgable about history than the average person so I don't think I can level with you guys who are obviously major students in the field.
I will say...
I can't believe that what you just wrote sums up every little thing I believe in and in it's entirety. I swear sometimes it seems like you're a long-lost brother.
Sincerely,
The Vault Dweller
Kharn's eventual new avatar?
Seriously I care about politics and keep track of current events, but I'm only a bit more knowledgable about history than the average person so I don't think I can level with you guys who are obviously major students in the field.
I will say...
Yamu said:
I can't believe that what you just wrote sums up every little thing I believe in and in it's entirety. I swear sometimes it seems like you're a long-lost brother.
Sincerely,
The Vault Dweller
Hmmm... Politics.
If anything, I'm a communist (though I subscribe more to the ideas of Trotsky than Lenin or Stalin).
If anything, I'm a communist (though I subscribe more to the ideas of Trotsky than Lenin or Stalin).
I see a lot of support for Ron Paul on the Internet and other venues for opinions that don't matter (university campuses, Alex Jones radio shows, documentaries about the inherent Judeofascism of the Federal Reserve), and I'm constantly perplexed by it. Ron Paul? Really? Congress' equivalent of Hans Moleman and/or the Fantastic Four villain Mole Man? Really? That makes no sense! One, he has no shot. Two, he's fucking insane. Not insane. Fucking insane. There's a hair of difference between the two terms. Insane is what you'd call most of the candidates for any political office - entitled, corporate whores who believe the present political process of prostitution and inane media games is good or at least necessary for the health of the nation. Fucking insane harkens back to the people who offer campaign promises and post-election plans about as coherent as a Charles Manson speech. They're the third party candidates who are third party for a reason. Ross Perot. Pat Buchanan. Lyndon LaRouche. The Free Silver fucknuts. The Anti-Masonite Party. And now Ron Paul. Three (and most important), Ron Paul's got a lot more craziness going on than what his campaign wants you to see. And when you're talking 'more craziness' from a Goddamn libertarian, then, well, expect to see more than a few black helicopters.xdarkyrex said:I plan to vote for Ron Paul, despite being a republican that is pro-life and anti-gay beliefs, because he wants to disassemble as much of our government as he can get his hands on.
Ron Paul 2008!
i think representative democracy is a very bad way to rule things, but sadly i cant think of anything that does it better CONSISTENTLY. the consistently part is important. there are plenty of other systems that sometimes work way better, but sadly not consistently better. as such, they're probably worse than democracy.
on topic: i've always voted for the VLD = "flemish liberals & democrats". mostly on Karel De Gucht (a personal friend) and Guy Verhofstadt. it's a centrist party with a nudge to the right, while having progressive and social keynotes (says wikipedia, and wiki is always right).
on topic: i've always voted for the VLD = "flemish liberals & democrats". mostly on Karel De Gucht (a personal friend) and Guy Verhofstadt. it's a centrist party with a nudge to the right, while having progressive and social keynotes (says wikipedia, and wiki is always right).
I hold fairly similear beliefs, at least similear enough that i cannot be bothered to write my own post on it. Ron Paul looks like a Sith. In reality i think any party to a reasonable but not excessive extreme is okish, provided they don't serve continously for more than a couple of terms. Any system for two long stats to suck. The key is to rotate your horizons.
It's always between a douche and turd, so I'm apathetic and vote blank/don't vote.
I did have a super-liberal conservative phase a short time ago though.
I did have a super-liberal conservative phase a short time ago though.