The 10mm pistol

K

Kahgan

Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!
Hokay, so now that I'm more or less done with the AK112, I want to model the 10mm pistol...but there's some major problems with that.
I've drawn(in paint :D )the pistol from the side, after the picture I have of it in the Survival Guide(fallout1 manual), now that pisture is quite small, and it shows the gun from the front/left, so I cant see wht's behind the thing that looks like a barrel mag. And that's the second, and biggest problem, the barrel mag, why the hell is it there?
It looks clearly like a barrel on the reference picture, but the hole for the bullet to come out of is located way over the barrel-mag-thingie... :crazy:



It doesn't make sense unless what I think is a barrel mag is something completely differant...But then the problem becomes; what the hell is it?
Are there anyone out there who could answer me? Does anyone even know?
 
Hmm, let's look at this from the pedantic firearms expert (nut) viewpoint: This thing wouldn't work.

I took the images and resized them. It appears now that this thing DOES have a damn revolver cylinder somehow.

pistol2je.jpg


As you can clearly see in the right hand (in game) image, it has a cylinder with what seems like five chambers. Regardless of what the rest of the gun looks like and what the actual text says,t his thing has to be a damn revolver. The only thing I can think of is a recoil-operated revolver much like the Webley-Fosbery or Mauser revolvers of olden times or the very sexy Mateba of the present. This is a kind of revolver in which the recoil of the barrel/frame is used to rotate the cylinder to the next chamber and cock the hammer. That really is the only thing I can think of... Otherwise this thing is total trash and wouldn't work at all.

You did a god job of laying it out (and even managed to make it more ergonomic) but I think you're going to have to either make this look like a total fantasy gun or try to make it look like a semi-automatic revolver. - Colt
 
yeah, the pictures are a bit differant, I'm thinking of either using the picture from the manual and just waste the cylinder and protend it's not there or go with the in-game picture and making it a revolver...the problem with making it a revolver is that it has twelve facking rounds...of 10mm...wich requires a huge cylinder...
 
Now, i'd never really noticed the "cylinder" on the side (chalk that down to low-res graphics and being unobservant at times), I'd kinda assumed it was either decoration or some sort of sighting system on the side of the gun (for ghetto shooters).

On balance though, it was designed for looks not reality.
 
I'd just go with making it a standard semi-automatic pistol... Would save you a ton of trouble and everything else in the bloody universe ponits to it BEING a magazine-fed semi-automatic pistol. - Colt
 
Agreed
Also, that Mateba thing...
Seems to me that all it does is take away the only advantage of the revolver (i.e. simple design -> reliability) (also, perhaps accuracy, but that's a whole other bag of nails)
It's like it takes the worst of both world...
All it does is look nice...

Kahgan, my advice, drop the cylinder and make it an automatic.
 
It's going to be fairly accurate since the frame and barrel are rigidly attached. I don't think the recoil system is all that complicated. Now, if it were gas or something, sure, but recoil operated systems are generally simple. - Colt
 
I think I must have spent the better part of my Fallout playing days beating myself over the head wondering how you fit twelve 10mm slugs into a five to six shot cylinder. Then I remember readying 1984 and remember they convinced the hero to believe that 2+2=5...

Bastards.... So in all fairness, maybe all Fallout games should have a patch to rechamber the Colt 6520 to a six shooter.
 
The gun from bladerunner (better known as the .223 pistol to us Fallout fans) had a odd cylender type of thing in it See various images: http://www.roboterkampf.com/roboterhtml/htmlprop/pkd1main.htm ). It wasn't exactly a cylender from the outside, but it had one internally. Regaurdless, you could maybe 'invent' some part that looks like a revolver cylender that'd be on the 10mil. Like...perhaps some kind of recoil operated ejector, or maybe a recoil reducer of some kind. Or you could alter it to be just a cylindrical protrusion on either side of the gun, to house the mechanics of it or something.

I remember hearing somewhere about a very odd gun that used a magazine AND a cylender, and the rounds were fed into the cylender from the magazine. And it had strange, triangular rounds that were made of a normal brass round with a triangular rubber sleve over them, similar to those triangular things you put on pencils to give them a better grip. I remeber seeing it on a History of the Gun special on wierd guns. Maybe you could research that design for ideas. Good luck.
 
heh, that thing is another weapon mystary in fallout, it says it's a hunting rifle that's been cut down to a pistol, but it resembles in no way to the hunting rifle....

I've been playing with the thought of making the gun look like the one in game, I.E. making it a revolver, butaltering one thing only, making it chambered for six bullets, rather than twelve...the reason for this is because I like the look of the in-game image more than the one in the survival guide...
 
Actually, to clear up the hunting rifle thing, when they made the origional prop for Blade Runner, they made it by cutting the barrel completely off an old bolt action rifle and adding a grip, a second trigger and barrel, and a few blinking LEDs. I guess that's what a bolt action looks like without a stock covering the internal workings. I figured that's where they got the idea for making it a coustom made pistol in Fallout 1 (even though it's availible more than once in fallout 2, which makes no sence since it's supposedly unique).

And yeah, I agree about making it a revolver and chaimbering it for six. Unless you could figure out a way to have a magazine that reloaded the chaimbers in the cylender automatically, maybe similar to the Mateba, which I think would be an unnessesarily complex system.
 
InTheOnlineAsbestosSuit said:
they made it by cutting the barrel completely off an old bolt action rifle and adding a grip, a second trigger and barrel, and a few blinking LEDs.
Click to expand...
Ye're a bit mistaken. They used the receiver from Steyr Mannlicher .222
 
Definitely bolt-action. When I said about a mistake, I meant the trigger only.
By the way, does anyone happen to know from what revolver did they take the handle?
 
I'm not actually sure that they used a revolver grip for the handle on the PK-D. They might have had to make an aluminum frame and then the clearish handles themselves to fit the Steyr receiver.

A good page with pictures of an extremely good replica is here . It even has a working bolt and then the weird cylinder. It's possible that the pistol was meant to have a cylinder to hold the ammunition and the bolt locks it to fire the powerful round in the movie... Which would work but not in the current guise.

I spent quite a bit of time a while back trying to make a semi-automatic pistol that would work and look like the one in the movie... Using the original box magazine under the bolt and .223 Remington. I think I figured out how it would work but it would involve a pretty complex system of a moving chamber and striker system. Otherwise there is simply not enough room to chamber and work a round like the .223 and it would be pointless anyway, most of your powder would come out of the barrel as a huge muzzle flash.

The Mateba works nothing like a magazine fed semi-automatic pistol other than it's semi-automatic. As I've said before, something like the one in the game would be heavy, complex, and unwieldy.

Triangular Rounds: You're thinking of the Dardick pistol and it's tround. This was a much different concept than simply having normal rounds fed into a cylinder. As you can see here, it's an open cylinder that feed triangular rounds. They were basically brass cartridges encased in a kind of hard plastic so they could feed from a magazine. The plastic casing was needed to support the casing since the cylinder was open. This isn't something you just toss together using bits from a semi-automatic pistol and a revolver. - Colt
 
[Rusty Chopper said:
]By the way, does anyone happen to know from what revolver did they take the handle?
Click to expand...

I remembered seeing the name mentioned somewhere recently, so a quick google found the page again: T'was a Charter Arms .44 Special Police Bulldog. In this artical, you can find a section dedicated to the building of the gun that explains it in detail: http://scribble.com/uwi/br/fn/fn-ch8.html

Also, in referance to Colt's comments about trying to build a semi auto out of a bolt action, I also tried (never got past the design stage) and came to the same conclusions. The Mauser C96 (aka Gizmo's gun) apparently had the same muzzleflash problem, and a cut down rifle would be wasting a lot of powder unless it had a fairly long barrel, and then it wouldn't be much of a pistol. But hey, the muzzle flash could double as a flame thrower at close range...

But yeah, back to the task at hand: Colt was also right about the Dardac pistol (thanks for the memory refresher on that) . But I did think of an outrageously bizarr feeding system that could explain the 10 mil's unusual cylender: Imaging a combination of a cylender and a tubular magazine (like on pump shotguns): six tubular magazines arainged in a cylender that rotates once each magazine is depleated. If mounted under, say, a pistol barrel, this could feasibly have a whole bunch of big caliber rounds (aproximately 24: maybe 4 rounds per tube, 6 tubes). Now if you somehow included another revolving cylender, one that was constantly being refilled by the under barrel magazine...well, it'd be a strange and probably stupidly complex way to feed ammo, and probably heavy as all hell, but it could explain the 10 mil. Anyone else understand what I'm getting at, or am I just nuts?
 
A perfect type of cylinder is used in Calico gunshttp://world.guns.ru/smg/smg57-e.htm, which was later placed under the barrel in Bizon SMG http://world.guns.ru/smg/smg08-e.htm, so I don't think it's useful to invent something new. I'm sorry to say that, but (OMG!) 6 tubes, and only 4 rounds in a tube. To my mind, it's just a waste of space. Moreover, can you place much under the barrel? If it is strongly preferable to use a bolt-action rifle, it would be easier just to use the magazine feeding, as in the original. Or I completely miss the point?
 
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