RetroAmerica
It Wandered In From the Wastes
Now first off, let me state that for all intents and purposes the reasoning behind this thread is to discuss some of the strange plot holes that relate to the former United States Government faction, and hopefully not to get overrun by the fanatical fan base who salivate at the mere mention of "The Enclave".
1) First off, let's start with the naming convention. We know that Bethesda for the most part did not do their research and basically made a slap-dash product, which they were exceedingly proud of, but which is not representative of a Fallout game, and during their rushed and rather poor implementation of the Fallout story, they came across the former United States Government faction, which due to the Poseidon Oil Rig, being called the "ENCLAVE" rather than looking further into the topic, they went with the "Cool Factor" and adopted the name for the organization, which because of the Fanboyism of most Fallout 3 players, basically through retroactive content, turned the United States Government based on the "ENCLAVE" (Oil Rig), into a faction so named, even if that naming convention was completely wrong.
Examples:
When approaching the sentry at Camp Navarro, upon challenging the Chosen One, he informs him that he's trespassing on Federal Property, not "Enclave property" or anything else for that matter.
When using the terminal at the reactor in in Geckko, you find references to different installations which are listed as offline, due to no doubt being taken out by nuclear strikes, however the only site active is "ENCLAVE", which even when you receive contact from the Oil Rig, the talking head on the other end uses proper radio procedure by responding as the receiving site....after all it would be downright stupid, or at the very least highly unreasonable to call your man installation the exact same name as your organization.
Also, other than the patrols sent from the Oil Rig, found on the far left hand side of the map, and the Enclave Control Company, there's no mention of "the Enclave" being an organized force, after all Frank Horrigan when introducing himself says he's an Agent of the United States Secret Service(not the Enclave Secret Service), and even Doctor Curling (the creator of the modified FEV weapon) he himself is a commissioned officer in the Army Chemical Corps, not "the Enclave Chemical Corps".
Most of these strange inconsistencies such as the Enclave flag, the Enclave Emblem and the "Enclave Armed Forces" are a creation/misunderstanding by Bethesda and Fallout 3.
2) The United States Government faction is not fascist:
Now for some it may be hard to swallow, but at the end of the day and though Bethesda did everything in their power, up to and including the inclusion of trench coats and black SS style uniforms, the organization itself is not actually a fascist group and those who call it fascistic, don't seem to have a good grasp of the term.
The organization itself could be described as xenophobic against mutants and other non-genetically pure humans, however these sorts of attitudes allude to an earlier America of the 20's and 30's when ideas about race, eugenics and psychology were when judged by the standards of the 21st century to be primitive and discriminatory. The idea of killing off or sterilizing those who did not fit the mold of what it was to be an American is not an attribute of fascism but rather a throwback to an earlier nativist sentiment that had been a power driving force in the United States since around the 1850's and would die out with almost forced egalitarianism of the Second World War.
Therefore the idea that they would condone gassing a majority of the world's mutant population, doesn't strike me as an allegory to Hitler or Nazism, or even as a form of hatred towards the Chosen One, but rather as a rationalization based on eugenics and nationalistic principals. For example when discussing the plan with President Richardson, he doesn't engage in a foaming at the mouth rant about exterminating mutants and mutations, but instead rather matter of factly lays out his case for why they've come to such a harsh solution, and if I remember correctly he makes some statement in which he apologizes to the Chosen One, but in the same breath also tells him, that it's for the survival of the United States.
3) The United States Government Faction were not a shadow government or conspiracy:
I never really understood where the convention that the above were some form of conspiracy. In fact, and rather matter of factly it's stated in the GNN transcripts and if I remember correctly some other materials as well, that the President of the United States along with the Pacific Fleet retreated to the Poseidon Oil Rig, just prior to the nuclear engagement and since it was broadcast on GNN, it would be safe to assume that this was for the most part public knowledge and therefore pretty much kills any notion of conspiracy.
4) Installations:
The organization itself was a continuity of government scheme for the United States Government and due to what we can assume is the massive amount of damage caused by the Great War as NORAD itself was taken out (Fallout 2, Fallout 3: Van Buren) confirmed that it was now nothing more than a rather big crater, it's safe to assume that a majority of the continuity of government sites were destroyed and therefore makes it highly unlikely that "Raven Rock" (Site R) survived the nuclear attack.
It's very much plausible however to assume that the organization only operated for the most part in Northern California with possibly one other facility, which if I remember correctly was claimed to be south of Camp Navarro (if someone could locate the dialogue that would be great), after all the Vertibird was not an effectively long range transport platform, as it seemed by all accounts to be heavy on fuel consumption and basically was used as a transport resource between the Oil Rig and the Mainland with a few instances of "Verti-Assault" (comparable to modern Air Assault training no doubt) being used against targets, however the only cases of this tend to occur off screen: ex: The Assault on Vault 13, the Assault on Arroyo, and the attack on Geckko(brought to life in one of the restoration patches).
To end this, I do hope that this thread generates healthy and well thought out discussion on the subject and does not degenerate into fanboyism and pro-Fallout 3 remarks!
1) First off, let's start with the naming convention. We know that Bethesda for the most part did not do their research and basically made a slap-dash product, which they were exceedingly proud of, but which is not representative of a Fallout game, and during their rushed and rather poor implementation of the Fallout story, they came across the former United States Government faction, which due to the Poseidon Oil Rig, being called the "ENCLAVE" rather than looking further into the topic, they went with the "Cool Factor" and adopted the name for the organization, which because of the Fanboyism of most Fallout 3 players, basically through retroactive content, turned the United States Government based on the "ENCLAVE" (Oil Rig), into a faction so named, even if that naming convention was completely wrong.
Examples:
When approaching the sentry at Camp Navarro, upon challenging the Chosen One, he informs him that he's trespassing on Federal Property, not "Enclave property" or anything else for that matter.
When using the terminal at the reactor in in Geckko, you find references to different installations which are listed as offline, due to no doubt being taken out by nuclear strikes, however the only site active is "ENCLAVE", which even when you receive contact from the Oil Rig, the talking head on the other end uses proper radio procedure by responding as the receiving site....after all it would be downright stupid, or at the very least highly unreasonable to call your man installation the exact same name as your organization.
Also, other than the patrols sent from the Oil Rig, found on the far left hand side of the map, and the Enclave Control Company, there's no mention of "the Enclave" being an organized force, after all Frank Horrigan when introducing himself says he's an Agent of the United States Secret Service(not the Enclave Secret Service), and even Doctor Curling (the creator of the modified FEV weapon) he himself is a commissioned officer in the Army Chemical Corps, not "the Enclave Chemical Corps".
Most of these strange inconsistencies such as the Enclave flag, the Enclave Emblem and the "Enclave Armed Forces" are a creation/misunderstanding by Bethesda and Fallout 3.
2) The United States Government faction is not fascist:
Now for some it may be hard to swallow, but at the end of the day and though Bethesda did everything in their power, up to and including the inclusion of trench coats and black SS style uniforms, the organization itself is not actually a fascist group and those who call it fascistic, don't seem to have a good grasp of the term.
The organization itself could be described as xenophobic against mutants and other non-genetically pure humans, however these sorts of attitudes allude to an earlier America of the 20's and 30's when ideas about race, eugenics and psychology were when judged by the standards of the 21st century to be primitive and discriminatory. The idea of killing off or sterilizing those who did not fit the mold of what it was to be an American is not an attribute of fascism but rather a throwback to an earlier nativist sentiment that had been a power driving force in the United States since around the 1850's and would die out with almost forced egalitarianism of the Second World War.
Therefore the idea that they would condone gassing a majority of the world's mutant population, doesn't strike me as an allegory to Hitler or Nazism, or even as a form of hatred towards the Chosen One, but rather as a rationalization based on eugenics and nationalistic principals. For example when discussing the plan with President Richardson, he doesn't engage in a foaming at the mouth rant about exterminating mutants and mutations, but instead rather matter of factly lays out his case for why they've come to such a harsh solution, and if I remember correctly he makes some statement in which he apologizes to the Chosen One, but in the same breath also tells him, that it's for the survival of the United States.
3) The United States Government Faction were not a shadow government or conspiracy:
I never really understood where the convention that the above were some form of conspiracy. In fact, and rather matter of factly it's stated in the GNN transcripts and if I remember correctly some other materials as well, that the President of the United States along with the Pacific Fleet retreated to the Poseidon Oil Rig, just prior to the nuclear engagement and since it was broadcast on GNN, it would be safe to assume that this was for the most part public knowledge and therefore pretty much kills any notion of conspiracy.
4) Installations:
The organization itself was a continuity of government scheme for the United States Government and due to what we can assume is the massive amount of damage caused by the Great War as NORAD itself was taken out (Fallout 2, Fallout 3: Van Buren) confirmed that it was now nothing more than a rather big crater, it's safe to assume that a majority of the continuity of government sites were destroyed and therefore makes it highly unlikely that "Raven Rock" (Site R) survived the nuclear attack.
It's very much plausible however to assume that the organization only operated for the most part in Northern California with possibly one other facility, which if I remember correctly was claimed to be south of Camp Navarro (if someone could locate the dialogue that would be great), after all the Vertibird was not an effectively long range transport platform, as it seemed by all accounts to be heavy on fuel consumption and basically was used as a transport resource between the Oil Rig and the Mainland with a few instances of "Verti-Assault" (comparable to modern Air Assault training no doubt) being used against targets, however the only cases of this tend to occur off screen: ex: The Assault on Vault 13, the Assault on Arroyo, and the attack on Geckko(brought to life in one of the restoration patches).
To end this, I do hope that this thread generates healthy and well thought out discussion on the subject and does not degenerate into fanboyism and pro-Fallout 3 remarks!
