Are there any Homeworld fans here?

[The Dutch Ghost]

Hello everyone,

Are there any fans of the Homeworld series here? (Homeworld, Homeworld Cataclysm, Homeworld 2)
I was first planning to make a topic about asking if there were any fans here of 80s sci fi (Battlestar Galactica Buck Rogers in the 25th Century) but this topic subject is perhaps better to the point as I meant about how space, space travel, and spaceships were depicted in those shows, not the acting. (the original Star Wars movies would probably also fall under that)

As for on how I came on this subject, well the beautiful evening sky with its various color patterns and combinations reminded me on those beautiful backgrounds of those games, they just made space look so colorful, and yet so immense and lonely.
How far you would travel, you would never find an end to it.

I am rather sad on how the interest in space travel has died down, both in general and in video games.

 

[Gizmojunk]

Absolutely!

HW & HW:C are two of my top favorite RTS to date. I never build a system without setting them up (alongside Fallout 1 & 2).

The Homeworld IP was bought by Gearbox, and they've converted another studio's ~driving/salvage~ RTS to the Homeworld IP, but there is at least marginal hope that we will get a real Homeworld 3.
They have already confirmed HD remastered versions of Homeworld; that's in the works. (Don't know if they will screw it up though).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWBJMwNgTQ8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qe9OWZaCFbo

 

[The Dutch Ghost]

Interesting how you don't mention Homeworld 2 when you mentioned what you want your system to be capable running of.
I really liked the idea of sub systems in capital ships such as cloaking or gravity wells and thought it was a good addition, but I really did not like the storyline such as 'magical hyperdrives' and how the Bentusi were suddenly depicted after their portrayal in Homeworld 1 and Cata.

I have read about the RTS you are talking about that is being converted to the Homeworld IP, Shipbreakers it is called, isn't it?
For those interested, it is apparently a RTS taking place 'before' Homeworld 1 and takes place on a planet instead of space.

To be honest, I am not really happy with Gearbox grabbing the IP after the mess of Aliens Colonial Marines. I also think their Borderlands franchise is not really that good at all.

 

[UniversalWolf]

Homeworld 2 is the only one I've ever played, and I enjoyed it, both the mechanics and the production of the storytelling.

 

[Gizmojunk]

Interesting how you don't mention Homeworld 2 when you mentioned what you want your system to be capable running of.
I really liked the idea of sub systems in capital ships such as cloaking or gravity wells and thought it was a good addition, but I really did not like the storyline such as 'magical hyperdrives' and how the Bentusi were suddenly depicted after their portrayal in Homeworld 1 and Cata.

I really liked some of the technical improvements, but there were several things I did not like ~for instance, the loss of the ability to control one's specific ships. In Homeworld 2, you could only buy fighters in squads, and you could only attack in groups... This meant that [unlike Homeworld] you could never send the damaged ships back for repairs without sending the entire squad into route. This made damaged ships no longer a priority of command to save; where before, I would send any ailing ship back for repairs while the rest of the squad dealt with the enemy threat. This also meant that you could not send a lone recon unit to scout an area; you had to risk five.

Homeworld 2 is the only one I've ever played, and I enjoyed it, both the mechanics and the production of the storytelling.

Play Homeworld [1] if you get the chance. Homeworld:Cataclysm is a close 2nd.

This is a favorite moment from Homeworld ~but it is a minor spoiler; though no less a terror when you come to it in the game...

 

[Ardent]

Are there any fans of the Homeworld series here? (Homeworld, Homeworld Cataclysm, Homeworld 2)

Absolutely a fellow fan here.

As for on how I came on this subject, well the beautiful evening sky with its various color patterns and combinations reminded me on those beautiful backgrounds of those games, they just made space look so colorful, and yet so immense and lonely.
How far you would travel, you would never find an end to it.

I loved the colorful backgrounds in the Homeworld series - it was such a refreshing sight/concept from the blackness of 2001:Space Odyssey or Star Wars for that matter. I remember it made me read up on nebulae and other space objects other than stars and planets.

I am rather sad on how the interest in space travel has died down, both in general and in video games.

I'm hoping the competition from Chinese and the new American space program will revive the interest a little bit, maybe even spark a new "Space Race", though that's probably a too much to expect. I don't think a manned expedition to Mars will happen, unless the majority of the population clamors they want humans to get there (and subsequently - so governments can capitalize on the interest). If this doesn't happen anytime soon, well maybe somebody somewhere makes money on asteroid mining and that will probably send humanity massively into space

The Shipbreakers RTS looks dated (in a bad sense) - plus I don't think I would welcome a Homeworld game that takes place on a planet surface. I mean, WTF? Homeworld has always been a space odyssey for me. If you want a deep space RTS, check this out: Ancient Space.

 

[alec]

I'm hoping the competition from Chinese and the new American space program will revive the interest a little bit, maybe even spark a new "Space Race", though that's probably a too much to expect. I don't think a manned expedition to Mars will happen, unless the majority of the population clamors they want humans to get there (and subsequently - so governments can capitalize on the interest). If this doesn't happen anytime soon, well maybe somebody somewhere makes money on asteroid mining and that will probably send humanity massively into space

While I don't doubt that asteroid mining is technically possible (or will be in the future), it's the economics of it that bothers me. I don't think the numbers add up. Just imagine that a company finds a nickel iron asteroid that can be mined and just imagine they find a shitload of platinum on said asteroid. So they mine it, and bring back 200,000 ounces of that stuff. A fortune, right? Not really. Because price is very sensitive to an increase in supply. 200,000 ounces extra would lead to a 20 per cent fall in the price of platinum. That's a huge drop. And the thing is: the next batch of platinum that they bring back will cause an ever bigger fall in the price of platinum. Sure, now humans can even use platinum to wipe their arses with, but that's not going to help the asteroid mining company in any way whatsoever. It will benefit society, no doubt, but it's not the way to finance a space program. The more platinum they bring back from space, the lower the price gets, meaning they'll have to bring back even more platinum to make a profit.

No one with a sane mind would ever finance such a venture.

Another thing is this: the first mission will not bring back any ore. The first missions (plural) will be purely logistical: looking for water, for instance, so hydrogen and oxygen can be made (for fuel), maybe building and launching a satellite to monitor the asteroid, building the actual infrastructure, adding robots to do the work, etc etc. Only the top 1% capitalist pigs on Earth have ample funds to finance a thing like that (i.e. without immediate profit). Which means the part of society which will actually benefit from asteroid mining will be ... the exact same 1% capitalist pigs that are already loaded. It could take 20 years before the venture actually becomes profitable. I'm glad I will not have to pay taxes for that.

 

[Ardent]

While I don't doubt that asteroid mining is technically possible (or will be in the future), it's the economics of it that bothers me. I don't think the numbers add up. Just imagine that a company finds a nickel iron asteroid that can be mined and just imagine they find a shitload of platinum on said asteroid. So they mine it, and bring back 200,000 ounces of that stuff. A fortune, right? Not really. Because price is very sensitive to an increase in supply. 200,000 ounces extra would lead to a 20 per cent fall in the price of platinum. That's a huge drop. And the thing is: the next batch of platinum that they bring back will cause an ever bigger fall in the price of platinum. Sure, now humans can even use platinum to wipe their arses with, but that's not going to help the asteroid mining company in any way whatsoever. It will benefit society, no doubt, but it's not the way to finance a space program. The more platinum they bring back from space, the lower the price gets, meaning they'll have to bring back even more platinum to make a profit.

Unless the resources on earth start running out and we have to import them from space. I'm not saying it's something that'll happen in the next 20 or even 50 years, but eventually, as demand for the basic mineral resources grows, somebody somewhere will find it profitable to start mining rocks in space.
Most great empires that imported spoils from colonies/wars saw an increase in prosperity, rather than a decline caused by an abundance of a certain good - they just found new ways of using it. So, we have too much platinum? Oh well, maybe now we can massively produce electronic parts of greater quality for the same price, as we did before with gold? Maybe there are other technologies waiting just around the corner for a large supply of platinum? Yes, platinum prices would drop, but that wouldn't automatically mean a catastrophic economic crisis, or that the whole venture would suddenly become unprofitable.

 

[Gizmojunk]

While I don't doubt that asteroid mining is technically possible (or will be in the future), it's the economics of it that bothers me. I don't think the numbers add up. Just imagine that a company finds a nickel iron asteroid that can be mined and just imagine they find a shitload of platinum on said asteroid. So they mine it, and bring back 200,000 ounces of that stuff. A fortune, right? Not really. Because price is very sensitive to an increase in supply. 200,000 ounces extra would lead to a 20 per cent fall in the price of platinum. That's a huge drop. And the thing is: the next batch of platinum that they bring back will cause an ever bigger fall in the price of platinum. Sure, now humans can even use platinum to wipe their arses with, but that's not going to help the asteroid mining company in any way whatsoever. It will benefit society, no doubt, but it's not the way to finance a space program. The more platinum they bring back from space, the lower the price gets, meaning they'll have to bring back even more platinum to make a profit.

This would be a problem if Platinum were just valued for jewelry or as a commodity... but the stuff is extremely useful.

Bringing back 5½ tons of platinum as a bonus to getting the Nickle would be great; as there would be more of the stuff to use. Any shrewed marketer would also advertise that their [luxury] items came from space.

______________
Originally they had a tough choice to decide what they would make the ball on the top of the Washington monument out of. The choice was platinum or aluminum, they chose platinum ~because at the time it was cheaper. If we found a whole asteroid made of platinum, platinum would become cheaper, but we'd benefit greatly from it.

 

[alec]

This would be a problem if Platinum were just valued for jewelry or as a commodity... but the stuff is extremely useful.

No, I'm actually taking this into account. I am well aware that platinum and gold and a shitload of other elements can be used for a myriad of things. It doesn't even matter, to be honest. Metals that are widely available are rarely just valued for jewelry.

Unless the resources on earth start running out and we have to import them from space.

Resources are already running out on Earth.

I'm not going to say that it'll never happen, because that's stupid, I'm not a fortune teller, but I think it's highly unlikely. To me it sounds like an article from a '50's copy of Popular Mechanics in which they talk about a city on the Moon and nuclear fueled vehicles - it's 2014 and we still ain't got those things.

Another thing to take into account is the cost of putting stuff into space. Today it's like $10,000 per pound (according to NASA). That's a lot of money. Scientists hope to bring that down to a couple of hundred dollars per pound within the next 25 years or so (and so on, until you can put stuff into space for mere dollars). But this is the best case scenario, heavily depending on technology that has yet to be tested/build/engineered/... Again: a lot of those technologies sound like Popular Mechanics gossip. A lot of those things will simply never happen.

Solution: mine and build your infrastructure in space. Again depending on technology we still have to come up with. Or fund it with commercial space flight. Again: still has to happen. And so on.

The state the world is in today, it's pretty ludicrous dreaming about asteroid mining. It's in the same category as deep space exploration and manned missions to other planets in our solar system: so far, it's only been done in Hollywood.

Anyway: no need to derail this thread completely.

 

[Ardent]

Resources are already running out on Earth.

I meant as in running-RUNNING OUT Where there's hardly anything left that could be used, or it's buried so deep, it's actually cheaper to fly past Mars and bring it back from an asteroid. Not that we'd have resources for rocket fuel when such a shortage happens, unless the infrastructure was there already...

Another thing to take into account is the cost of putting stuff into space. Today it's like $10,000 per pound (according to NASA). That's a lot of money. Scientists hope to bring that down to a couple of hundred dollars per pound within the next 25 years or so (and so on, until you can put stuff into space for mere dollars). But this is the best case scenario, heavily depending on technology that has yet to be tested/build/engineered/... Again: a lot of those technologies sound like Popular Mechanics gossip. A lot of those things will simply never happen.

Solution: mine and build your infrastructure in space. Again depending on technology we still have to come up with. Or fund it with commercial space flight. Again: still has to happen. And so on.

I don't think it's as clear cut, as you make it seem. Making a stretch and investing in a seemingly useless feat of putting a man on another planet and bringing him back generates a slew of new technologies that are subsequently used in other domains of human activity. Just look what the original Space Race did to polymers, electronics, computer science, ceramics and a thousand other branches of industry, science and engineering, not to mention unmeasurable stuff like environmentalism etc. It's true that in today's world ruled by short-term ROIs, launching such a project is very unlikely, but hopefully some kind of political turmoil will make the world look to the stars again

Anyway: no need to derail this thread completely.

Yep. So, Homeworld? Are you familiar with the game? Any other cool space RTS you can recommend?

 

[Tagaziel]

While I don't doubt that asteroid mining is technically possible (or will be in the future), it's the economics of it that bothers me. I don't think the numbers add up. Just imagine that a company finds a nickel iron asteroid that can be mined and just imagine they find a shitload of platinum on said asteroid. So they mine it, and bring back 200,000 ounces of that stuff. A fortune, right? Not really. Because price is very sensitive to an increase in supply. 200,000 ounces extra would lead to a 20 per cent fall in the price of platinum. That's a huge drop. And the thing is: the next batch of platinum that they bring back will cause an ever bigger fall in the price of platinum. Sure, now humans can even use platinum to wipe their arses with, but that's not going to help the asteroid mining company in any way whatsoever. It will benefit society, no doubt, but it's not the way to finance a space program. The more platinum they bring back from space, the lower the price gets, meaning they'll have to bring back even more platinum to make a profit.

You're assuming that the demand for metals will remain stable, rather than increase consistently (and it does), that the prices would remain fixed, rather than continuously rise due to the shrinking supply of accessible raw materials, or that there would only be one market: Earth.

Furthermore, why would a company excavate the entire asteroid at once? Logistics aside, do we excavate entire coal deposits at once and pump all the crude oil out the moment we find it? It'd be adjusted to match the demand, specifically to avoid breaking the market.

 

[The Dutch Ghost]

Well there was ORB and Nexus The Jupiter Incident of course, and later on Sword of the Stars and Sins of a Solar Empire though the last also focused more on empire building and less on running a campaign.

Outside mods of other franchises like Star Trek and Babylon 5 for the original HW and the sequels there are sadly don't seem to be any 'Homeworld' clones at all like there were so many 'Command and Conquer' clones.

I hope a HD re release of Homeworld with perhaps an upgraded control system like the ones from HW Cata and HW2 will inspire interest again in the game series.
And that they also make a HD version of Homeworld Cataclysm.

But in my opinion they should just skip Homeworld 2 HD version, instead going into a new direction after HW Cata and ignore almost everything from the 'sequel' (with exception perhaps of the sub system gameplay)
Back to just 'building one fighter at a time' and not complete squadrons for example.

 

[Gizmojunk]

http://www.gog.com/game/nexus_the_jupiter_incident
I have it, but I've only played about 20 minutes of it...

 

[The Dutch Ghost]

I also bought Nexus but I gave it away to a friend because I did not like the gameplay that much.
Much more prefer the gameplay of Homeworld 1 and Homeworld Cata.

Ardent, Gizmojunk, what did you think of the units and storyline of Homeworld Cata?

And yeah Ardent, Homeworld really made space look more colorful. I find it sad that no one has ever uploaded some screenshots of those.
I still remember locations like Sea of Lost Souls well, really fitting too as it was sort of a 'creepy' level.

 

[Gizmojunk]

Ardent, Gizmojunk, what did you think of the units and storyline of Homeworld Cata?

Cataclysm seemed like an improvement on the engine; and had really good multiplayer. I remember playing many battles that in some cases could last four hours. The story was not terrible; not as good as the original (but what is?). I liked Dreadnoughts, and I liked ability to setup forcefields; and especially pulling off point-blank siege cannon hits while managing to hyperspace away from the area before it detonated.

The Command ship was okay too; not as great as the Mothership, but it was cool, and functionally the mothership & research ships combined.

 

[The Dutch Ghost]

Forgot about the Command ship, I found that thing a hundred times better than the mothership in Single Player.
Not only could we finally move the mothership, but with improvements and the siege cannon the ship truly becomes the heart in a task force and very useful in a battle.

Yeah, the storyline was not as strong as that of Homeworld 1 but I still found it better than that of HW2.

 

[Gizmojunk]

Alas... the news from February, was that Campbell Lane ~the actor who voiced the Bentusi in all the games, has passed away.

 

[The Dutch Ghost]

Man, what a shame, he did some great voice acting for the Homeworld series.
From what I remember from reading on his IMDB page he did a lot of voice acting and even had a live appearance on the new Battlestar Galactica.

 

[Gizmojunk]