Here's an idea... Everyone remembers Fallout 2, where you ended up carrying dozens of doses of chems around and never using them... I'd like to see more chems, and more places where you could use them. Some Chems could have interesting effects not otherwise achievable (I.E. Buffout became nearly useless when you got Powered Armor.) Furthermore, I'd like to see possible side effects like interaction; and have them come into play in a real way (you could get addicted to chems, but I always just reloaded). For Example you could have an area contaminated both radiologically and biologically, but you couldn't take the pill for both because doing so would [nullify an effect, make you ill, drop a stat that you'd need inside the area, simply kill you, etc]. Thus the player would have to either suck up one thing, or somehow make himself immune (by hunting down an environment suit, or a radiation suit, or something like that.)
Chems and Chem interactions...
- Thread starter Lord 342
- Start date
That's a pretty interesting idea, but i want to comment on one point you raised:
That's probably the biggest problem with chems on the faloouts. Specially on Fallout 2, with jet being so cheap, useful and addictive, it was way to simple to get an unfair bonus in any fight by quicksaving before starting it then trying to take 2 doses of it without getting addicted. Addiction could have been something interesting, but it ended up being just a waste of time....Lord 342 said:
For addiction, I could imagine a hidden counter and somewhat random increase per use and possibly slow decrease over time.
Special treatment might be available at some point to remove chemical contamination.
Some chems (besides Stims) should be more or less readily available, making them worthless as "collectibles" and making addiciton seem less dramatic, so players may be more willing to accept their addiction.
In fact.. maybe addiciton could not appear as warning message when it happens but only once the player starts feeling withdrawl. Clearly this idea was inspired by the following paragraph.
I would like to see widespread radioactive areas, making radioactivity a concern while travelling, as well as radioactive locations of different levels.
I would especially like to see many areas with a low radiation which the player can be subjected to without being well prepared, unlike the Glow.
I found I regularly missed the messages in Fallout, so if players were surprised by radiation they might not always be able to undo it without effort, more or less forcing them to live with it.
Special treatment might be available at some point to remove chemical contamination.
Some chems (besides Stims) should be more or less readily available, making them worthless as "collectibles" and making addiciton seem less dramatic, so players may be more willing to accept their addiction.
In fact.. maybe addiciton could not appear as warning message when it happens but only once the player starts feeling withdrawl. Clearly this idea was inspired by the following paragraph.
I would like to see widespread radioactive areas, making radioactivity a concern while travelling, as well as radioactive locations of different levels.
I would especially like to see many areas with a low radiation which the player can be subjected to without being well prepared, unlike the Glow.
I found I regularly missed the messages in Fallout, so if players were surprised by radiation they might not always be able to undo it without effort, more or less forcing them to live with it.
Claw said:
This is good stuff. The effects of addiction should only appear after the chem has worn off. If chems are more widely available, and such, then I think we've got a handle on the problem of "Oops; addict, just reload!" Chems then become a better working part of the environment, especially if you have more places to use them (For Example in Fallout 2 I only used Buffour a few times before I got the power armor, or for ring fights or skill checks (like becoming a porn star needs way more EN than anyone should ever buy for anything), and I usually used Psycho on myself and poor armorless Marcus for REALLY tough fights (Mariposa base, Navarro if I feel like, The Enclave, etc) Otherwise Psycho, and the rarer chems (Monument chunks and cookies) just becames "Hold for emergency" items I rarely used.)
I eat Burst for breakfast
First time out of the vault
That would be very cool, and a realistic detail too...Claw said:
One thing I'd like to see is effects (good or bad) from combining drugs.... Some drugs will work differently when you already have another chem in your system.
I don't think there should be a lot of drugs in F3.
It might be cooler to have a few chems that you learned how to combine, instead of having a dousin chems to choose from. I mean, post-nuclear wasteland, no resources, no cigarettes(!), a few people here have alcohol stills, so mass produced chems doesn't make much sense...
People smoked weeds BEFORE tobacco was discovered, I think.
But I can see your point. In a PA setting it'd be weird to have various brands of high-tech drugs.
But I can see your point. In a PA setting it'd be weird to have various brands of high-tech drugs.
NCR_Ranger
It Wandered In From the Wastes
Claw said:
That's actually a really good idea. Particularly the part about it not displaying when you actually become addicted. Bravo.
fallout_expert105
First time out of the vault
All of your ideas seem great, but I'd also like to see a slow decrease in your character's physical stature giving you animations that go with the addiction's withdrawl symptoms. Another thing is if the hit points, damage, physical stature, physical attributes, and fatality system all become more hyper realistic they can have elements of pain that affect your character's abilities. For example endurance modifies hit points, radiation & poison resistance, it could also modify pain tolerance allowing your avatar to flinch less and sustain more injuries without becoming weak or dis functional because of extreme pain experienced from the 6 gun-shot wounds you've taken. With this pain system powerful chemical stimulants could highten pain tolerance more than endurance ever could, making you unstoppable because of the powerful painkilling elements in the drugs. And of course there's also the adrenaline boost and enhanced physical energy and hyper activity.
fallout_expert105
First time out of the vault
Playing as a goul or a super mutant isn't exactly something I want Fallout 3 to have, it's about pure human struggles. Anyway this subject is about chems not different races there's a topic for that, go there instead.
Actually experiencing the story as a Ghoul/Super Mutant could be a new Fallout it's just a different story.
That or showing us what happened just after/before the bombs fell could also be a different story, ala Fallout 0.
That or showing us what happened just after/before the bombs fell could also be a different story, ala Fallout 0.
fallout_expert105
First time out of the vault
There's also the fact that this would require an enormous amount of balancing and could decrease the functionality of the many other features of Fallout 3 because they'd be forced to focus on this a lot.
Counter-Strike Moron #105 said:
But it should not be that hard, look at BG1 and BG2, and any other classic D&D series games or Morrowwind, they all have massive story line, races, and are able to incorporate NPC reactions to different races sex etc. It should not be a too time consuming thing to do to expert RPG makers.
edliu512 said:
Agreed. BGII had seperate quests for each class, and Fallout has no classes (Fallout 3 BETTER not have classes! I love BGII but one of the most frustrating things I've experienced is finding a cool item and having to say "Nope, my class just can never learn this no matter how much time I put into it, so I guess I'm screwed!" while in Fallout I'd often learn a skill just to use a cool weapon!) so a quest or even several specific to each race (There would be only about three races, Human, Ghoul and mutant; I'd build on them with subtle options that everyone could pick from; i.e. traits.) would easily be doable. Another thing I'd like to do is have traits influence your appearance. If you picked "Small frame" you'd actually appear more slight; if you took "Bruiser" you'd appear bulky. I seriously once started a game and took "Bruiser" just because I thought it would give me the top-heavy build of a Casino Bouncer/Mobster!
requiem_for_a_starfury
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
Save playing as other races for the modders, or at least FO4. Playable races would require a division of the resources meaning more compromises elsewhere in the game. It's the sort of thing that contributed to FOT being so unfallouty.
As for the original subject of the thread, I'd like to see chems and especially booze affect NPCs more. If an NPC wants to trade for booze etc then if you pay them a return visit it'd be interesting to see them drunk or stoned. Could add posibilities such as a drinking contest based on your strength and endurance, or bribe some guards with booze and they'll be easy to sneak past/fight if drunk.
Not just traits, but strength as well. Kind of how in JA2 if you picked a certain portrait and had a high strength you'd use a different character model. Kind of frivolous I know, but if at the maximum strength you're on a par with SuperMutants it should be reflected in your appearance.
As for the original subject of the thread, I'd like to see chems and especially booze affect NPCs more. If an NPC wants to trade for booze etc then if you pay them a return visit it'd be interesting to see them drunk or stoned. Could add posibilities such as a drinking contest based on your strength and endurance, or bribe some guards with booze and they'll be easy to sneak past/fight if drunk.
Well, the thing with booze and drugs on NPCs was implemented to some degree; in the Den there was the church fight, and in the course of the regular game you could simply feed random people Booze until they lost most of their PE, although this wasn't very realistic, the "assassination by Super-Stimpack" was fairly realistic in concept, if not practice, inasmuch as a lethal overdose is a terrific way to kill someone in a world where autopsies are uncommon at best. What your suggesting is perfectly doable (Hell, it could've easily been done in the Fallout engine!) and I don't see any reason not to put it in the game.
As to playing as other races, I don't think it would matter too awful much, there would just be some more script calls and dialog options, and some exclusive quests. Baldur's Gate II handled at least halfadozen races and easily as many classes, and many combinations thereof, and it's *Huge*. I really don't see why competent developers couldn't put a couple races in place.
As to playing as other races, I don't think it would matter too awful much, there would just be some more script calls and dialog options, and some exclusive quests. Baldur's Gate II handled at least halfadozen races and easily as many classes, and many combinations thereof, and it's *Huge*. I really don't see why competent developers couldn't put a couple races in place.
requiem_for_a_starfury
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
Well with the booze etc, I know you can use chems on people as it is, and I'd like to see the option to reduce their stats this way kept but what would be really nice is to have more of a reaction from the npc to the chems. Say you keep Cassidy well stocked with booze, he get's drunk. In addition to the stat changes it'd be fun if he passes out from time to time, or you get kicked out of Vault City (nor permantly) for being drunk and disorderly. Or you talk to someone who's drunk and their talking head reflects this and their dialogue changes etc. All totally superficial I know, and a lot of extra work but it kind of seems pointless having booze in the game otherwise.
Superficial, yes, pointless, no. Little touches like that make a game seem more like an experience. RPGs always have the most of things like this, to engross you in the world. Other games are catching up in this respect, but RPGs have to be on the vanguard of this area. Things like that are of limitless value when they make the player feel more a part of the gameworld and are by no means a waste if the succeed in this regard. Put it in, I say!
fallout_expert105
First time out of the vault
I believe that's called immersion, and yes it is a very important element of what make RPG's so special. An open ended RPG of Fallout's quality has to focus on hundreds of little but well designed touches that immerse the player in subtle and sublime ways. I'd love to see things like that in Fallout 3, especially physical stature and posture deterioration from addiction and side effects, or physical changes based on the performance enhancing compounds the chem contains. For example methamphetamines would cause twitches, convultions, and differences in reflexes/energy that would be visible in the form of detailed animations.