Climate change returns!

[quietfanatic]

imagine what happen in "The day after tomorrow" happen in real life

We'd all be dead, for one.

The power of film to reignite debate is demonstrated yet again.
Although the film is a huge exaggeration of the facts, climate change is happening and something has to be done about it.

According to current trends, weather will continue to get more extreme. Colder winters in Europe, drought in China and the possibility of more catastrophic weather disasters in the tropics could threaten the survival of humanity.

The Pentagon has commissioned an investigation to gauge the implications to national security of climate change and global warming. Climate change could case whole populations to have to mass-migrate or invade neigbours for resources. Austalia already has huge water problems due to drought but we can survive them (for the moment) because we are a well developed nation. However, Bush is still all but ignoring the problem.

Such measures as signing the Kyoto Protocal need to be takenby every nation to resist climate change. Controversial methods are being considered by scientisits around the world but none are without problems. Examples include harvesting carbon dioxide from emissions (expensive), increasing the use of nuclear power (hello terrorists), dropping emmisions drastically (there goes the world economy) and helping the 3rd world to become more efficient green house gas emitters.

A major problem is that the science is not perfect. We do not know for sure how much climate change is caused by human intervention. because we know little about how climate change works the genuine scientific debate actually makes it easier for governments to ignore the desperate pleas of the academics. Humanity has never been great on long term goals and sustainable development. The attitude of"It won't happen for centuries so who cares" is unfortunately held by powerful politicains and industrialists.

In Australia it is winter but a relatively warm one. The sea temperature is 20 C and the Antarctic wind is cool, as opposed to being bloody freezing in the relatively recent past. Such small samples of anecdotal evidence are all but useless. However, ice cores show that the temperature is rising steadily. Sub-Antarctic plant life is being replaced by more species which only grow in warmer climates. Likewise animal species are dying out for clearly climatic reasons. Evidence such as this cannot be ignored.

The solution is for scientists to develop fusion power and a way to efficiently take heat out of the atmosphere.

 

[Sander]

The Pentagon has commissioned an investigation to gauge the implications to national security of climate change and global warming.

Then notice:

Such measures as signing the Kyoto Protocal need to be takenby every nation to resist climate change.

And then note that Bush kicked out the Kyoto convention treaty.

In Australia it is winter but a relatively warm one. The sea temperature is 20 C and the Antarctic wind is cool, as opposed to being bloody freezing in the relatively recent past. Such small samples of anecdotal evidence are all but useless. However, ice cores show that the temperature is rising steadily. Sub-Antarctic plant life is being replaced by more species which only grow in warmer climates. Likewise animal species are dying out for clearly climatic reasons. Evidence such as this cannot be ignored.

Something most people don't realise is that climate change has also been going on since the beginning of the existence of earth. It is not just an evil thing create by humans, it's a part of the planet's life.

 

[alec]

Something most people don't realise is that climate change has also been going on since the beginning of the existence of earth. It is not just an evil thing create by humans, it's a part of the planet's life.

Well said, Sander.
Nature denies our existence, and we treat nature like shit.
Plus: the Kyoto convention treaty is a measure for nothing. As if the countries that actually signed that piece of paper are going to bring change soon... Bwahahahaha. Most of them are still buying clean air from bigger, underdeveloped countries and so on. The only reason some of these countries will reach the norm is because their industry is moving to other regions of the world. Which is a bad thing in more than one way.

We have, however, a big negative influence on the climate. The data is known. Seasons get more extreme. In some parts of the world, the atmosphere is so heavily polluted that up to 30% less sunshine reaches the ground below. And so on. The Club of Rome has very interesting rapports about these kind of things.

What is really needed, are extreme measures. Drastic measures like not allowing a household to have more than one car, for instance. There should be one day a week (at least) when the use of cars is prohibited (let's say on Sunday), but really prohibited (only ambulances and cops should be allowed to drive around on those days).
This will of course never happen, because the most important thing in this modern world is global economy. Making dough. As if we think that future generations will look up to us because we were able to make lots of money and lots of unnecessary stuff.

Pfffffffffff...

 

[quietfanatic]

Something most people don't realise is that climate change has also been going on since the beginning of the existence of earth. It is not just an evil thing create by humans, it's a part of the planet's life.

Like I said we don't know much about how the climatic systems work, although we are learning new things all the time. Natural or not, climate change could threaten our survival. There is a large enough body of scientific evidence to show that human interference is an important factor in global warming. Just because weather patterns and world climate evolve radically over time is no excuse for us to 'give nature a helping hand' in reaching a new ice age or whatever. Nature is not evil, only humanity is (although that is also debatable) and is merely a collection of inter-related systems that affect humanity, hence the behavior of some to personify negative forces as 'Evil'.

 

[Snake]

According to current trends, weather will continue to get more extreme. Colder winters in Europe.

How does that explain that some ten thousand people got killed in France because of the warm weather? And that its getting warmer every summer here in Sweden.[/quote]

 

[alec]

According to current trends, weather will continue to get more extreme. Colder winters in Europe.

How does that explain that some ten thousand people got killed in France because of the warm weather? And that its getting warmer every summer here in Sweden.

Read quietfanatic's post again: "weather will continue to get more extreme." He's right about that, you know. Winters are getting way colder and summers are getting way hotter and dryer throughout the world (of course, there are always exceptions, but all in all it's a global trend). Last summer was so incredibly hot that, for instance, in France thousands of people died. A tragedy, no doubt, especially in so-called modern Europe. It was also a result, of course, of the bad medical care in France and their worldfamous nonchalance towards the elderly. But the same happened in India, if I remember correctly. It's something we should be well aware of, since it could indeed start to threaten life on this planet - if it doesn't already.

 

[welsh]

5 great extinctions so far, maybe one more coming.

Check this out-
http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99994797

 

[alec]

There is growing concern over the rate at which species of plants and animals are disappearing around the world.

I know it might sound weird
but all of these things here
are things that disappear.
(Rhett Miller)

I want a front row seat when the world starts to crumble and fall. It's not that I want this to happen, but when I read stuff like this, when I view those reports by the Club of Rome, when I hear the scientists talk, when I view the numbers, the figures, the warnings... well, then I just don't get it why mankind isn't doing its utmost best to change course, to go and sit behind the design table again, to avoid this impending apocalypse. And then I start to think: 'Hell, if they don't want to change drastically and if all they do is talk, talk, talk, well in that case, we deserve to go extinct.'
I don't know about you guys, but in my case the apathy is starting to set in. Is it a sad thing that we are destroying the only planet we will ever have? Of course. But if no one in power seems to give a shit, then why should I donate the little money I've got to Greenpeace or whatever organisation? Eh?

To be honest: I think humanity desperately wants to go extinct. We've seen movies about it, read books and articles about it, and we just luv that kind of drama. Humans need drama and tragedy and misery because it makes them think they actually matter. He.

I wish I could whistle a magical tune and change everything, push it in the right direction.
But I'm only human.
And my whistling isn't that good.
Sorry folks...

 

[victor]

I wish I could whistle a magical tune and change everything, push it in the right direction.
But I'm only human.
And my whistling isn't that good.
Sorry folks...

See, now that's the kind of attitude that'll actually make all these horrible things happen. People just love to complain, but they never take action. Like those treehuggers. "Oh boohoo, we don't want to hurt anyone". Well, maybe that's wrong, because the only thing these environment-destroyers understand is pure, undistilled violence. If we're not going to do anything, then everything that we feared will happen. When I talk about this with someone and say that it's a real threat, they all shrug it off and say "naah, that's just science fiction". That's simply because they can't deal with their own fear, and the human instinct makes them deny the truth, refuse to see what is about to happen. Stupid fools.

We're the slaves of packs of retarded cocksucking morons, and nobody is doing anything about it. Wish I had friends I could convince.


And Sander, every single child knows that the climate keeps changing on Earth (ice ages and such), but this process takes thousands and thousands of years (polar inversions, pollution and such). I've noticed a considerable change in temperature over the past DECADE! That is NOT normal. Nature cannot change that fast, otherwise the dinosaurs would have lived for a century and we (humans) would have been extinct after 15 years of existence. The climate is getting weirder, too.


We're indeed facing a sixth extinction, but we're the first ones who can actually do something about it.

 

[alec]

People just love to complain, but they never take action.

Exactly. I can hear you whine, alright, but what action are you taking if I may ask?

We're the slaves of packs of retarded cocksucking morons, and nobody is doing anything about it. Wish I had friends I could convince.

But what would you do? Shoot off Bush's left pinky with your BB gun? Give money to the WWF? Greenpeace? You think anyone can actually change anything? Don't you think some people have tried that already? Don't you think some of them are still trying? And what does it all amount to? Is the world getting any better? Are species really being saved and do we really think we have the power to do that?

To change the course we're heading at right now, we would need the most extreme measures imaginable. That would mean, in the first place, that we would all have to do with less. You alright with that? I know I am, since I don't own doodley-squat already, but I know millions of people would whine and complain. Would you agree if suddenly the price of gasoline tripled? And what if cars became so gddmn expensive that only the rich would still be able to drive one (and have the 'right' to keep on polluting)? Lots of factories would also need to be closed and international traffic (especially airplanes) should be restricted to really urgent stuff, like transport of medicines. No more space adventuring either, I'm afraid, since all the fuel that is needed for one single launch is really a waste of very expensive resources and since our conquest of space hasn't really given us much more than satellite tv and some really neat pictures that even the greatest scientists alive don't fully understand (and don't let them tell you anything else). Or do you actually think that we'll be living on Mars within the next 50 years or so? Ha! Travelling? Tourism? Are you out of your mind? And think about the printed media. Is it really worth it to mow down complete forests because Coca-Cola so desperately wants to attract new addicts to a product that has already been around for far too long and is known by everyone? Do they need advertisements? No. And neither do Nike, H&M, Nokia and so on. And don't forget the magazines. Way too many of those around, which means that way too many trees are being cut down for a whole bunch of no-news and gossip and naked dames. No more Playboy, no more Hustler, no more Penthouse. Cigarettes? Forget it. Batteries? Are you insane, they are filled with toxic waste already. And so on. And so on.

It should be clear to you that this is not at all the way humanity wants to go. Everybody wants progress. Everybody wants the fastest car around. Everybody wants to spend the summer in Italy and read Vanity Fair on the beach while using sun oil which is flasked in a plastic bottle that can only be made if you accept some pollution to go with it. The world economy is on every political leader's main agenda. The survival of our planet is only a footnote for these bastards.

But again, Baboon: what are you going to do about it? I did already spend heaps of time pondering about these things, but the sad fact is that nothing in human behaviour will ever change.

Are we heading towards a disaster? I think we are. Is that a bad thing? Yes. And no. Yes, because it will be the ultimate proof that humans are stupid and incapable of anything lasting. It will be the proof that we don't give a shit about what our ancestors did and achieved: works of art, literature, music, stuff that gives a man the feeling that life isn't that bad after all. We should feel ashamed for that lack of respect.
But no, it's not so bad, because we have to stop thinking that we really matter a lot. We are a smarter brand of monkeys, that's all. There's no real difference between us and mosquitos and butterflies. We might think differently about that ('We are the children of God', 'We are destined to do great things', 'Humanity has a goal: it's called progress' and so on, and so on), but trust me: according to the laws of physics and nature and reality we mean zilch. Hence I say: let nature kick us in the nuts real hard. Floods, earthquakes, unbearable heat and deadcold winters. Hunger, thurst, diseases, extinction. Let nature resolve this matter in due time. It always does.

We're indeed facing a sixth extinction, but we're the first ones who can actually do something about it.

We think we can do something about it, but in my opinion, we can't. We can't turn back time 100 years or more, and try again. Who would organize such a change? Who would support it if they knew what they would eventually have to miss? No one I know of, except maybe myself. But I'm a loner and a misanthrope, and basically my friend: I don't give a shit about the six billion morons out there. What have they ever done for me, eh?

 

[victor]

I'd like to take action, but I'm just not in the right situation to do so. I don't have any money, no income, I'm only 18, so what the hell am I supposed to do? It's those people with money that have to do something. If I were rich , first thing I'd do is buy the entire car industry piece by piece and then shut it down (on a related note, I don't give a flying fuck about gasoline prices, as I don't, nor ever will, own a car).

Yeah, I could do without all that luxury stuff. I wouldn't mind living like in the old days, as long as I had medicine (I've never heard of that industry being a major pollution source). Now that I think of it, I could probably do without medicine, because the way I see it, living in a polluted and stressful world makes you die early anyway. I don't need a car, I don't need vacation, I don't need magazines. Everyone hates me for saying that I don't want all that, that I don't even want a driver's license. Maybe it's because they're jealous. Maybe they're just too weak to break out of this foolish need of being better than everyone else.

I everyone just stopped right now, just stopped, everything would have a slim chance of working out. Problem is nobody is. If only things could be simpler.

I'm outside the system. No no, trust me, I am. I don't give a shit about anyone but me, I'm just pissed off that I have to suffer because of something our great grandfathers started. I don't want to be the victim of 6 billion people's foolishness, that's all. If only there was a nuclear war, and I survived, by living alone in a vault deep underground. Wouldn't mind that, actually.

 

[alec]

If anyone else is reading this thread they should now start to wonder why in hell's name we are arguing. I feel exactly like that, Baboon, feel free to ask around.

Yeah, me sitting in an underground vault, reading Thoreau, dreaming about the good old days... That's my Shangri-La as well. Hell, if you're not much of a burden, I'm even willing to give you one of the rooms in that vault so you can do exactly the same: dream and ponder. While the rest of the world is fucked. Bwahahahaha!

If it's any consolation, mate: I'm still living very much outside the system myself. No driver's license in my wallet either. And when something gets broke and isn't necessary to survive, I don't replace it. Back to basics, eh, but I wonder: just how long do I think I can pull this off? It's getting harder with each passing day. And don't forget the dames, Baboon. Dames love money and possessions. They'd rather hook up with a moron who owns a BMW than with a dreamer who thinks that 'all you need is love.' Sad but true. But then, look at some of those dames: wouldn't you want to work eight days a week to buy one of them a diamond ring?

In 10 years, you'll be speaking an entirely different lingo, methinks. I know I'm starting to adopt more and more, and that's not a shame. Everyone does. You just can't escape from the system - that is, if you don't want to end up in the gutter and become the ladyboy of a bunch of perverted homeless people or kill yourself.

Oh vey... Let's leave it at that and get back on topic: ah yes, climate changes. Extinction. Go on, go on...

 

[APTYP]

Instead of wailing about the climat change, maybe you should be out there preparing for it. Like building a floating house, *shrug*

 

[alec]

Instead of wailing about the climat change, maybe you should be out there preparing for it. Like building a floating house, *shrug*

Thanks for the TYP, Noah.

 

[APTYP]

omg pun D:

 

[Jebus]

According to current trends, weather will continue to get more extreme. Colder winters in Europe, drought in China and the possibility of more catastrophic weather disasters in the tropics could threaten the survival of humanity.

El Niño. Everybody always forgets El Niño. A lot of the strange weather patterns we're experiencing in the last few years are all because of El Niño.

It has already been proven seventy-five years ago that El Niño has a severe effect on climatoligical patterns around the world. From tornadoes in the USA, through cold winters and floods in Central Europe up to the absence of a moussoon in India, El Niño is to blame.

Over the last twenty years, El Niño has occured more frequently and stronger then in the last hundred or so years. Why? Noone knows. Scientists all over the world are still trying to figure out why the hell El Niño is acting up recently. Hell, scientists are still trying to figure out what causes El Niño to begin with.

One thing's for sure: it has nothing to do with global warming. Archeologists have discovered that large portions of Aztec culture have already been wiped out because of stong El Niño's, in pre-Colombian ages. Climatologists have discovered that El Niño was to blame for droughts in India over seventy-five years ago.

Everybody ALWAYS forgets El Niño. Terrible.


But apart from that, one thing's for sure: the overall climate IS slowly warming up, and the ice-caps ARE melting. And noone is doing shit about it. Once again, civilisation has reached that stage of laid-back decadence, where we all are so wrapped up in our own little luxury (which other, poor people have died and worked for, but whe don't care. That's half a world away, isn't it?) that noone seems to able to get off their lazy, spoiled asses to do something about it.
This kind of mentality is partially to blame for the collapse of great, older civilisations (like the Romans); and it will mean the end of ours. Only, it won't just mean the end of our civilisation, but of the entire damn human race.

5 great extinctions so far, maybe one more coming.

Hey, are you an Aztec in disguise, maybe?

Trying to stir us up to do human sacrifices, are ya?

 

[Sander]

And Sander, every single child knows that the climate keeps changing on Earth (ice ages and such),

They know about Ice Ages, but when they hear about climate changes people tend to think "OMFG climate change, evil humans!" without any nuance, and without realising that climate change is also a natural process.

but this process takes thousands and thousands of years (polar inversions, pollution and such). I've noticed a considerable change in temperature over the past DECADE! That is NOT normal. Nature cannot change that fast, otherwise the dinosaurs would have lived for a century and we (humans) would have been extinct after 15 years of existence. The climate is getting weirder, too.

No kidding. But frankly, I doubt it'll make that much of a difference in the end. We'll adapt, as everyone does. If the world is completely flooded, we'll just live on a bunch of rafts. Whatever. I don't care anymore. We'll see what happens.

Fuck it. If the world comes to an end, it'll come to an end. But gettting all stressed out about it and saying "Oh no, the world will come to an end" isn't going to change anything. So fuck that, and do something about it when you have an opportunity, either that or shut up.

But apart from that, one thing's for sure: the overall climate IS slowly warming up, and the ice-caps ARE melting

You know, I still don't get it. If the ice-caps melt, you've got molten ice-caps. But since the ice-caps are made of the same water, the water will not rise merely because of the ice-caps. In fact, if all the icebergs and what not on the entire world that are in the ocean right now would melt, the ocean-level [/b]should not[/b] rise.

 

[Jebus]

You know, I still don't get it. If the ice-caps melt, you've got molten ice-caps. But since the ice-caps are made of the same water, the water will not rise merely because of the ice-caps. In fact, if all the icebergs and what not on the entire world that are in the ocean right now would melt, the ocean-level [/b]should not[/b] rise.

Silly Rabbit. Ice is lighter than water, and therefore floats on it. The ice-caps are in some places up to six kilometers thick (Greenland). Therefore, if they would melt, that would be a damn lot of new water to join the oceans.

 

[Sander]

Silly Rabbit. Ice is lighter than water, and therefore floats on it. The ice-caps are in some places up to six kilometers thick (Greenland), and float entirely on top of the sea-level. Therefore, if they would melt, that would be a damn lot of new water to join the oceans.

Silly rabbit. Icecaps are for two-thirds under water, and because of such a thing called physics when ice-caps melt, the volume they were taking up would now be taken up by the molten ice-cap (ie. the water). Woooh. So no ocean level rise. Or at least, that's what physics says.

 

[Jebus]

Icebergs might be two-thirds underwater, indeed. But that still leaves one third on top of the sea level. So I ask you, did you ever look at an atlas, and see how goddamn big Antarctica is?

That's a whole lot of meltwater.

There have been exxagerations, though, it's not like the entire world would be overrun with water. But the sea-level would rise enough to coat certain coastal areas.


*EDIT* Silly Rabbit.