Dark Souls 2

Mutoes

Mutoes

Mildly Dipped
Dark Souls 2 is coming and there is now few trailers and a gameplay demonstration for us to view:

Announcement trailer:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6uyuIQYlfY[/youtube]

Another newer trailer:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmqxZrqk3bc[/youtube]

Gameplay demonstration:
http://www.ign.com/videos/2013/04/10/dark-souls-2-gameplay-reveal-12-minute-demo

I was rather worried about the new director and some talks about making the game more approachable than DS was. Looking at the gameplay demo at the least, the game looks good (more of the same as DS). Ill stay cautiously optimistic for now.
 
I'm so unbelievably excited for this game. Dark Souls is the best game I've played in a really long time. At first I was worried, because of the change of people in charge and the very vague hints at what was to come (still a bit worried they will screw up the multiplayer aspect). But after seeing that demonstration all I can say is that this looks like it'll be just as awesome as Dark Souls and then some.
 
Mutoes said:
I was rather worried about the new director and some talks about making the game more approachable than DS was. Looking at the gameplay demo at the least, the game looks good (more of the same as DS). Ill stay cautiously optimistic for now.
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Not such a bad idea, IMO. DS looked like a good game with great atmosphere and setting, but TBH I lost interest not even halfway through (during the forest level), because it appeared like way more effort than it is worth. It wasn't hard, just tediously annoying - and not nearly fast-paced enough like, say, the Ys games, to make the necessary level-grinding bearable.

If they can keep the atmosphere while improving the gameplay, to the point where they don't need to bloat monster stats and force grinding to make up for lack of content, then it'll be a better game for everyone. The fanboys will whine - but they can go to hell.

And hopefully, they'll release a PC port sooner rather than later, and not do such a piss-poor job at it this time, either.
 
Ausdoerrt said:
Not such a bad idea, IMO. DS looked like a good game with great atmosphere and setting, but TBH I lost interest not even halfway through (during the forest level), because it appeared like way more effort than it is worth. It wasn't hard, just tediously annoying - and not nearly fast-paced enough like, say, the Ys games, to make the necessary level-grinding bearable.
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Dark Souls is never about level-grinding though. The whole point of the toughness of enemies and especially bosses is that you need to learn how to play the game. You can beat the entire game easily withouth levelling too much if you just learn how to use the combat system and know how to gear up your character. And you're supposed to seek help from other players when it gets too rough. Grinding levels will only get you so far, and if that's your main focus then there's no wonder you didn't enjoy it. It's a game about exploration, and about honing your skills and being rewarded for it. Grinding for hours to be able to beat a boss isn't fun. Carefully studying the bosses attack patterns, learning how to adapt to it and choose the right gear for the job is. Hell, when I reached the end of the game I hadn't levelled for a long time and I was losing tens of thousands of souls constantly because I wanted to stay at my current level (for pvp reasons). That's another aspect of it - pvp. Which is all about building a good character and learning the combat system.
 
The PC port better be bearable. I haven't even played DS1 yet because of how utterly crappy the port seems to be.
 
aenemic said:
Dark Souls is never about level-grinding though. The whole point of the toughness of enemies and especially bosses is that you need to learn how to play the game. You can beat the entire game easily withouth levelling too much if you just learn how to use the combat system and know how to gear up your character. And you're supposed to seek help from other players when it gets too rough. Grinding levels will only get you so far, and if that's your main focus then there's no wonder you didn't enjoy it. It's a game about exploration, and about honing your skills and being rewarded for it. Grinding for hours to be able to beat a boss isn't fun. Carefully studying the bosses attack patterns, learning how to adapt to it and choose the right gear for the job is. Hell, when I reached the end of the game I hadn't levelled for a long time and I was losing tens of thousands of souls constantly because I wanted to stay at my current level (for pvp reasons). That's another aspect of it - pvp. Which is all about building a good character and learning the combat system.
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You can grind levels or you can repeatedly run at a boss until you memorize all the details. Both are grinding. Some monsters are nearly impossible w/o the right equipment, and the right equipment has high skill requirements.

In short, much of it feels like work and artificial extension of a short game. It's a creative approach for a smaller studio, but now that they've done it twice I see no point in resorting to the same trick again. To me, the game started feeling too much like a job about 10-15 hours in, to the point where I felt no motivation to pick up the controller again.
 
Ausdoerrt said:
You can grind levels or you can repeatedly run at a boss until you memorize all the details. Both are grinding. Some monsters are nearly impossible w/o the right equipment, and the right equipment has high skill requirements.

In short, much of it feels like work and artificial extension of a short game. It's a creative approach for a smaller studio, but now that they've done it twice I see no point in resorting to the same trick again. To me, the game started feeling too much like a job about 10-15 hours in, to the point where I felt no motivation to pick up the controller again.
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Yeah, well... this sort of reminds me of the "casual mode" debate. The thing is, the people who love these games so incredibly much are those who want them to be challenging, time consuming and frustrating. That, together with the atmosphere which makes it feel even tougher and unfriendly, is what makes the game unique. Take away the challenge and you lose a big part of what makes the game. But I wouldn't be suprised if they did that, to cater to the masses who want to love the game because their friends do, but who think it's too hard.

It is, after all, exactly like how certain other games have been changed gameplay-wise to fit a broader audience.
 
Stanislao Moulinsky said:
Ilosar said:
The PC port better be bearable. I haven't even played DS1 yet because of how utterly crappy the port seems to be.
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Isn't its crime just being a direct port without any extra graphical options? :?
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@Ilosar : Its perfectly playable with couple of mods, played it trough twice.

@Stanislao: I went with controller so i had no problems with that, but from what ive heard if youre planning to go with kb mouse you need some mods for it to be enjoyable experience, so thats one issue too. Also I had some serious framerate issues (with i3 2100 and 7850) before i applied the DSfix mod.

With couple of key mods the game is seriously fun, but it really shouldnt fall to the mods to make the game technically adequate though.
 
Stanislao Moulinsky said:
Isn't its crime just being a direct port without any extra graphical options? :?
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And, that's acceptable how? :roll: It's not just about graphical options though - it's also about everything else from controls to options to menus... Any game, where I need to set up my keys or controller through a third-party program is a shitty port.

And yeah, the vanilla game looked uglier than the console version on PC. That must've taken some serious effort.
 
yes, like there never ever have been complex games released on the PC before.

if it really requires that much "buttons" to be pushed, then its the job of the developer to find a way that it still works smoth on the PC.

I can forgive certain "decisions", for example a nice part of Metal Gear solid on the PC was that you can not controll things with the mouse. So that made aiming "difficiuilt" (not impossible!!). But not beeing able to chose a certain mode on your blade or weapon because there is no way to map your keys correctly ... is just laziness. And on top of it, the gamebad I had was not fully supported ... which made the last boss battle more difficult then it should be (could use literaly only one attack).

Most of the time, they dont use people used with the PC to do the "ports" and just do a lazy job here to save time and money. I am not even saying a port with teh controls is always easy. But its definitely possible.
 
The game played very well with KB+Mouse, but with gamepad it's a smoother experience. Everyone should try out Dark Souls since it is just really good.

Can't wait for DS2
 
sea said:
Ilosar said:
The PC port better be bearable. I haven't even played DS1 yet because of how utterly crappy the port seems to be.
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If you use DSfix the game is totally playable (and very enjoyable). No reason to delay, unless you don't have a gamepad. But even then the poor PC controls are more just because the game was never designed with keyboard and mouse in mind, not because they don't work or anything.
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Yeah, I don't have a gamepad, and I don't plan to buy one for one game. I guess the general opinion is that it's a great game, but still. There are plenty of similar games (Devil May Cry, Darksiders...) that play very well with M + KB, it's not that hard to implement.
 
They've confirmed that the PC version is now their base version and this one will run at 60 FPS this time. Rejoice.

Also, I'm really liking the lighting in this game. While the textures haven't advanced much, the lighting effects are just stellar and I really hope they do have a day and night cycle in this game to take the most advantage of it.
 
Ilosar said:
sea said:
Ilosar said:
The PC port better be bearable. I haven't even played DS1 yet because of how utterly crappy the port seems to be.
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If you use DSfix the game is totally playable (and very enjoyable). No reason to delay, unless you don't have a gamepad. But even then the poor PC controls are more just because the game was never designed with keyboard and mouse in mind, not because they don't work or anything.
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Yeah, I don't have a gamepad, and I don't plan to buy one for one game. I guess the general opinion is that it's a great game, but still. There are plenty of similar games (Devil May Cry, Darksiders...) that play very well with M + KB, it's not that hard to implement.
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I said the same, refused to buy a gamepad for a long time. Then I caved in and got one for Dark Souls and I haven't looked back. I have even used it for several other games since, and some games are simply more enjoyable with a gamepad even if the M&KB controls are good.

DS is very much worth it, and with the graphics fix it's not only a decent port, it's an unbelievably good game that I didn't mind buying twice and buying a gamepad to play.
 
aenemic said:
I said the same, refused to buy a gamepad for a long time. Then I caved in and got one for Dark Souls and I haven't looked back. I have even used it for several other games since, and some games are simply more enjoyable with a gamepad even if the M&KB controls are good.
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Well, it's more of an issue that if you're making a PC port, you'd better make damn sure that you've got working MK&B controls. Whether you elect to buy one and what games you use it with is a completely separate issue. I own one too, but it doesn't make DS controls good or the game a better port.

DS is very much worth it, and with the graphics fix it's not only a decent port, it's an unbelievably good game that I didn't mind buying twice and buying a gamepad to play.
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Graphics fix aside, it's still got performance issues, and annoying uncomfortable consoley menus. It also didn't recognize my gamepad, so I had to use a 3rd-party fix for that too.

The game's got waay too many issues to be called a "decent port" at any level. It's too much effort just to get the damn thing playable. It may be a good game, but the port is shite, worse than DMC3 SE.
 
Ausdoerrt said:
aenemic said:
I said the same, refused to buy a gamepad for a long time. Then I caved in and got one for Dark Souls and I haven't looked back. I have even used it for several other games since, and some games are simply more enjoyable with a gamepad even if the M&KB controls are good.
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Well, it's more of an issue that if you're making a PC port, you'd better make damn sure that you've got working MK&B controls. Whether you elect to buy one and what games you use it with is a completely separate issue. I own one too, but it doesn't make DS controls good or the game a better port.

DS is very much worth it, and with the graphics fix it's not only a decent port, it's an unbelievably good game that I didn't mind buying twice and buying a gamepad to play.
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Graphics fix aside, it's still got performance issues, and annoying uncomfortable consoley menus. It also didn't recognize my gamepad, so I had to use a 3rd-party fix for that too.

The game's got waay too many issues to be called a "decent port" at any level. It's too much effort just to get the damn thing playable. It may be a good game, but the port is shite, worse than DMC3 SE.
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Not really sure what your point is. Is the game not worth trying out? Is it not worth getting a gamepad for, or even buying if you already have a gamepad?

There are far worse ports than this one, it's decent in every regard. Nothing about it makes it unplayable, not even the M+KB controls. I played for several hours with M+KB with no issues. The reason I eventually got one was because I wanted to better the experience even further. And I had no problems whatsoever getting it to work. Got the fix, got playing.

My point is simply that it's such a good game in my opinion (and many others) that it's worth forking out some extra cash for a gamepad if you don't have one. If you don't like the game, and are for that reason being nitpicky and exaggerating flaws, well that's your prerogative I guess. But I don't really get the point of convincing others not to play a game they themselves didn't like.
 
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