Death of a computer + Building one

S

SimpleMinded

Vault Fossil
Greetings,
So I looked back two pages and there was no relevant topic on computer building (though I know we've had them in the past, I just would rather be a builder than a grave digger). Alas, I've decided I need to build a new computer and so, I'm calling you all to my aid (because I can... try that is, likely going ignored in the process).
You see, we had a death in the family this past week. I received word from the home front that the computer I bought two and a half years ago turned off for the last time and has not responded to any of our emergency efforts to revive him. We tried a new power supply as that seemed the most logical idea, but it simply set us back another 20 odd dollars and didn't actually heal the computers dormant heart.
So I come with two questions in mind. First, anyone have any good ideas on how I might be able to turn the computer back on or any tests I could do to better identify the cause of death? Our current suspicion is the motherboard (if only because it wasn't the power supply and we decided that would be the next best scapegoat) which unfortunately, because of the builder of our computer's decision to glue the graphics card down, means that we're losing our graphics card in the process. So aye, any thoughts/suggests/comments?
Mmm the other venue we're looking at now is building a computer but I don't really know much about it. The computer would be designed for gaming purposes mostly, though keeping it compact enough to fit in one of the smaller sized towers (what dictates that?) would probably be good as my brother will likely use it once he gets to college age. Anyone have any recommendations on what specs to look out for on the various hardware items and what might be good for a computer that would hopefully be under 800?


So aye, I'm depending on you guys... Ratty :), you're always in the know about computer thingeys :twisted:
 
Does anything happen at all when you hit the power button? If nothing does it could be that just the button is broken. If it does power up, describe what happens - i.e., beeps, any unusual sounds, etc.

As for building a new computer, it's fairly easy. The only thing you really need to worry about is making sure that all the components are compatible, which basically just comes down to making sure the motherboard and processor are compatible, checking whether it has an AGP or PCI-E graphics slot, and checking what interface you can use for the hard drive. Beyond that it's just plugging and screwing things into place.
 
Montez, would there be an easy way to check if the button is broken? Nothing happens when we push the power button on the pc so it is a viable cause.

And aye, we managed to build a computer once before (my older brother built his) so we're pretty set in terms of checking for compatibility and actually doing the labor. My big issue is what's good and what's not in terms of actual parts.

Some random questions: What's up with dual core processors? Are they worth paying extra for? I saw that pentium has the D930 and it's only 191 dollars. But the AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800 was 150. But the intel was dual core.

Likewise, is it possible to set up a dual graphics card system on one's own? How much extra work is that? I found the nVidia 6800 for 70 dollars and the 7600 for 115. Could I buy two of the 6800 and use them together (it says they support SLI) and would that be better than a 7600?

Lastly, in terms of memory... is DDR2 worth it? I saw that atm only intel supports it and it's a little more expensive but would i get much performance boost out of it? Is there a big difference between any of them as I have a gig of DDR 400 in the dead computer that I can just take out but I don't know if it would be better to go up to say 550 or DDR2 instead.

Thanks for the help, all input is cheerio.
 
SimpleMinded said:
Montez, would there be an easy way to check if the button is broken? Nothing happens when we push the power button on the pc so it is a viable cause.
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Aside from making sure the wires are all still connected, none that my limited experience with electronics can come up with. If you have the patience you could buy a replacement one from radio shack or somewhere and try replacing it - it might be a hassle, but if it's the problem it's certainly a cheap solution. I don't know how probable it is that that is the cause, it's just that in my experience PC's usually don't just die like that, they fade away - so it's possible that the cause is something as simple as that rather than a dead motherboard or power supply.

Likewise, is it possible to set up a dual graphics card system on one's own? How much extra work is that? I found the nVidia 6800 for 70 dollars and the 7600 for 115. Could I buy two of the 6800 and use them together (it says they support SLI) and would that be better than a 7600?
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If you buy a motherboard that's capable of it it's as easy as installing one graphics card. I don't know enough about it to advise you on which is better as far as SLI combinations go - from benchmarks I've seen though it seems like there isn't much point to going for two lesser cards with SLI rather than a single good card.

As for the other questions, I'll have to defer to people who know much more about it than I do.
 
Remember not to buy a motherboard with a PCI-E slot and attemt to jam a AGP video card in there. Whoever would do that is a MORON.
 
Montez said:
it's just that in my experience PC's usually don't just die like that, they fade away
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Well, I have a confession to make there. The computer most certainly didn't just die but did fade away. I've been away at school now for quite some time but the computer was getting finicky about turning on so the family decided to just leave it on at all times. Then one day we lost power and thus, haven't been able to turn it back on. However, nothing looks to be burnt or been fried so I don't think the power loss actually killed it, just the fact that it was turned off.

Keep the comments coming... and I don't know what you're going on about calc... something you tried once? :)
 
Maybe... :look:

One thing you should not skimp out on is a good case. I got a rather expensive one, but my computer is awesomely cooled and doesn’t have a speck of dust inside because of the cases huge-ass fans and air filter.
 
calculon000 said:
Maybe... :look:

One thing you should not skimp out on is a good case. I got a rather expensive one, but my computer is awesomely cooled and doesn’t have a speck of dust inside because of the cases huge-ass fans and air filter.
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I'd agree there. I went cheap on the case since I figured it was just brand names and asthetics, now I'm forking over cash for a new motherboard because my shitty case had a bracket break off and the mobo grounded out and died.
 
SimpleMinded, no offense, but you seem to have no real clue about pc hardware. i'd advice you to contact one of your nerdier friends & ask for aid on this endeavor. all it should take is a beer and it's likely to save you a lot of trouble...

while assembly is rather straightforward & idiotproofed nowadays, choosing the best possible parts in the pricerange is often quite a local undertaking as prices vary wildly across the globe (and even in the same country).

as for your questions & the remarks posted in this thread:
- troubleshooting your current pc problem will take some knowhow & replacement testing hardware. the first step is removing all hardware that you dont actually need. keep the bare necessities, which are cpu, mobo, psu, 1 stick of RAM, 1 HDD & graphics card (unless the mobo had an on-board one). after that the testing commences, but since your problem isnt from the psu & your mobo gives no beeps, no lights & so on, i think it's safe to assume the mobo has died & possibly took some other parts with it.
also, due to the description you gave, i'd advice you to take another look at the motherboard & pay close attention to the capacitors rather than burn marks. any brown liquid on or leaking out of any of the capacitors?

- general suggestions on hardware: go next gen Intel (Intel Core 2 Duo if you can wait another month at least), the new AMD's are equal in performance to the previous gen. AM2 is completely equal to standard s939, with the exception of a few extra features which are irrelevant unless you hit the high end parts. Intel & AMD just started an all out CPU pricing war, which should yield some nice results for potential buyers.

- power button failure is extremely unlikely, but as said: check all connections. it'd be stupid to buy a new pc just because some wire broke loose...

- on the SLI case: first off SLI (or Crossfire for ATI) does not exist on all motherboards as it requires two 16x PCI-E slots and a special chipset, be warned. the thing with SLI is that not all current games are optimised to deal with it & you'll have some significant losses in performance from time to time. however, that is not the problem. the main positive side to SLI as far as i'm concerned is that now you buy 1 single SLI enabled card thats at the top of your pricerange & then wait. once you feel your pc slows down & needs a boost, you buy a second (perhaps also second hand) card identical to the one you have already -> instant cheap upgrade. this is not possible if you just buy 2 cards to start with...

- DDR2: AMD next gen is compatible with DDR2, but the performance increase is nill (compared to s939 with DDR1) unless you hit the high end market. Intel however really requires it's DDR2, no choice there. the choice for DDR1 or DDR2 really doesnt come into the equation, as it is directly linked to the CPU you choose.

PS: whomever glued a graphics card to a mobo should be STABBED and SHOT repeatedly...
 
SuAside said:
SimpleMinded, no offense, but you seem to have no real clue about pc hardware.
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That's why I made this topic Sua :-D. I figure you guys are all such smart folks about computers that you can help a Simpleton like me. Though I catch your drift. I go to a school that breeds nerds so I'll leave a message on facebook for some of them and see what I can do.

SuAside said:
i think it's safe to assume the mobo has died & possibly took some other parts with it. also, due to the description you gave, i'd advice you to take another look at the motherboard & pay close attention to the capacitors rather than burn marks. any brown liquid on or leaking out of any of the capacitors?
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Aye, the difficulty I'm working with there is that I'm a second hand source. My family is passing the information on to me which I send along your way but I'll talk to my brother when he wakes up and have him go check it out.

SuAside said:
- go next gen Intel (Intel Core 2 Duo if you can wait another month at least)
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I'm not sure we'll be able to wait another month (though that seems the best option if only for the effect it would have on current models) as they're currently running on no computer and entering summer break, my brother will raise hell over that. I'll have to talk to them as to whether they think they could willingly wait. If not, we might just aim to make this computer as cheap as possible and then upgrade as the goods come out.

SuAside said:
PS: whomever glued a graphics card to a mobo should be STABBED and SHOT repeatedly...
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aye, the company that built the computer for us has really plummeted in the reviews category and we're starting to get an idea of why that is.
 
SimpleMinded said:
That's why I made this topic Sua :-D. I figure you guys are all such smart folks about computers that you can help a Simpleton like me. Though I catch your drift. I go to a school that breeds nerds so I'll leave a message on facebook for some of them and see what I can do.
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still, a word of caution: some think they know everything best & others are fanboy sticking to a brand no matter what. it's worth crossreferencing with another friend before making the final purchase.
SimpleMinded said:
I'm not sure we'll be able to wait another month (though that seems the best option if only for the effect it would have on current models) as they're currently running on no computer and entering summer break, my brother will raise hell over that. I'll have to talk to them as to whether they think they could willingly wait. If not, we might just aim to make this computer as cheap as possible and then upgrade as the goods come out.
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that would be a shame as there is no such thing as an intermediate game pc. an upgrade to next gen would require a new cpu & a new motherboard (and if you went with AMD s939, new memory as well).

if you really cant wait, simply make the best pc you can with the means you have atm (with leaving a later SLI upgrade open for later if necessary).

while Intel Core 2 Duo will be a definite improvement, it will not make a terribly huge difference within the same price class.

PS: i seem to remember you said something about "small tower" pc's? what exactly did you mean? shuttles? or normal computer size? or what was the meaning?
 
SuAside said:
i seem to remember you said something about "small tower" pc's? what exactly did you mean? shuttles? or normal computer size? or what was the meaning?
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I was on new egg and they have a variety of different sized case options ranging from full tower to mini tower and then they even go into Micro ATX towers. Since the computer will likely end up being the one my younger brother takes with him to college, keeping it small would be nice as it would make it more portable for him to bring back and forth. However, does the tower size make much difference and what are micro atx mobos?

still, a word of caution: some think they know everything best & others are fanboy sticking to a brand no matter what. it's worth crossreferencing with another friend before making the final purchase.
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Too true. I suppose that isn't exclusive to video game consoles so I'll have to check up. My uncle's pretty big on computers as well so I'll send him a line with whatever I hear.

So I've tried to slowly accumulate parts that might be useful... do these insides look acceptable (one last question (for this post)... what's the difference between a GS and GT and what not with video cards? As if looking at numbers along wasn't bad enough, nvidia adds another layer by making different levels just within the one card).

processor/memory =
AMD 3800+ and a gb of either ddr 400 (if we keep our old ram) or ddr 550 (if it's worth jumping up)
OR
Intel D930 plus 1GB DDR2 800

Video card - currently looks like nvidia 7600 GS as it's only about 120 dollars but still looks to be pretty good.
 
micro atx are smaller motherboards. this means you loose pci slots. i dont think there are any micro atx boards that support SLI for instance.

the smallest form factor is shuttles. they're basically a cube, with room for 1-2 hdd's, 1 dvd/cd drive & so on.

the thing with small form factor stuff is that:
1) upgrading is limited, either not enough free slots, or not enough room to put stuff in
2) ventilation is often inferior

the GS is way slower than the GT and it features inferior memory.

as for the processor/mem stuff you're talking about, are you talking about an AM2 or a s939 processor for the AMD?

AM2 does not support DDR1 (which is your ddr 400)
 
in overall gaming performance, the AMD should come out on top. although it's a bit complicated, as the D930 might be more future proof due to it's architecture, but for current games, the s939 wins since the newer architecture of the intel isnt really being used (and i doubt it wil make a big difference in the future)

if you're going for the AMD, you might want to look for second hand parts as well. these should be quite easy to find. they could save you half your money.

the AMD also eat less power, requires a less expensive mobo, requires more common memory & so on.

if you want a gaming rig, i wouldnt buy a 7600GS .
 
Thanks SuA, would you recommend increasing my memory to ddr 500 or would 400 speed be okay? I'm thinking of keeping my 400 speed for now and then improving it later on once we get more cash.

After what you said, I've pretty much decided on the AMD 3800+ and the 7600 GT.

Most other parts seem pretty standard so I'm gonna compile my list and pass it on to my older brother to do the compatibility duties and hopefully order by tonight. Thanks brudda.
 
SimpleMinded said:
Thanks SuA, would you recommend increasing my memory to ddr 500 or would 400 speed be okay? I'm thinking of keeping my 400 speed for now and then improving it later on once we get more cash.
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since you already have 1gig of ddr400, i really wouldnt bother with it right now. (except if it has incredibly craptic timings & even then, dunno, probably not right away)
SimpleMinded said:
After what you said, I've pretty much decided on the AMD 3800+ and the 7600 GT.
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be sure to look around. there might be some better deals that could give you more bang for buck in your neck o' the woods.
SimpleMinded said:
Thanks brudda.
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no problem, dawg.
 
I need a new graphics card and it's been three years since I've cared about these things. I'm already dead-set on a socket AM2 3000+ processor and a decent mobo, but for some reason AGP was suddenly dropped from just about everywhere at a moment's notice. So I need PCI-E suggestions, if anyone's got 'em.

Edit: What's all this 939 vs. AM2 business?
 
socket 939 is the older AMD generation
AM2 is the newer AMD generation

in essence, AMD fucked up & the performance is damn near identical. so they did the only thing they could do: drop the prices.

as for suggestions, Pajari, all depends on your budget & purpose... you cant suggest something without knowing the available cash & what the hardware is going to be used for.
 
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