Define doping

donperkan

donperkan

Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!
Here's an interesting piece of news from the chess realm.

Borislav Ivanov a 25 year old boy wonder just made an unbelievable performance in the tournament in Zadar, Croatia. His performance was so astounding that the organizers strip searched him after the tournament.

Up until now Ivanov was a chess player with modest results, rated at 2227 by the Elo system his results where stagnating for years but the 2013 was a lucky year for young Ivanov. Tournament in Zadar featured a tough competition, among the contenders where numerous international grandmasters, and let's not forget Croatia's finest.

Ivanov scored a victory against Zelčič, Kožul, Kurajica and Šarić and drew against Kuljašević and Sumetsom. That performance netted him the fourth place in the tournament and 74 Elo points. The boost of 74 points is the real issue here, screamed the analysts. They had a valid point because according to computer analysis the boy wonder made a performance that surpassed Magnus Carlsen, the player who archived the highest rating in history 2861.

That smells of processing power, the same thought had the organizers as they where watching this Bulgarian owning his opponents so they cut the feed that was broadcasting the tournament on line. They discovered that that wasn't it as Ivanov raked another win. Their suspicions of computerized help became even stronger as Ivanov was drawn in a long closed game, the kind that computers have a tough time dealing with, in which he got a draw. They had no other choice but to strip search the dude, they even took a look inside his pen.

"I'm not a genius, nor a cheat, but just a normal boy that wants to have fun playing chess."

That quote was from an interview in which Ivanov complains about people being rude to him because of his performance.

In the aftermath of this "scandal" the analysis are still being run and the chess fans can only speculate.

While the indications for a electronic help, be it a computer program or a radio link, are strong some are claiming that he could have just went Lace Armstong stile and used cognitive enhancing drugs like adderall.

Please speculate.
 
Doping is when you deliberately add impurities into a material, e.g. a semiconductor, to alter its physical properties.
 
hehe missed my audience with this one.

Hassknecht said:
Doping is when you deliberately add impurities into a material, e.g. a semiconductor, to alter its physical properties.
Click to expand...

I don't even know what that means.

Thing is, all i know, he could be legit. Nothing was proven against him. It's all based on an analysis provided by the computer and all this analysis says is that his performance is beyond anything ever documented. Might even be luck or some other cosmic forces we know nothing about.
 
Also define how demonizing armstrong works when the ACTUAL scandal is the systemetic mafia'ing of all the doping.

If they had to give the win of the 2005 tour de france to the highest placing racer not KNOWN to be linked to doping, it'd be given to the 28th rider.
 
I named the thread aptly.

I'm interested where you guys draw the line and say this is doping and this is not.
 
What is doping? I don't have a precise definition. Suffice to say that if you knowingly take a product that is created solely to enhance performance, it's doping. So eating high-energy food ain't doping, taking pills that turn your muscle mass or cardio up to 11 is. For the chess example, I don't know if there are substances that can directly enhance your performance that much without perceptible side-effects. Mind-altering drugs are usually a double-edged sword and their effects can be visible. As for electronic help, unless they planted a chip in his brain I have no idea how he could possibly have computerized help Maybe the guy practiced a lot and is just that good.

Also, the Armstrong ''scandal'' is ridiculous. Every single world-class cyclist has taken illegal, performance-enhancing substance. You just have to in order to have a hope of competing. Considering the sheer requirements... I mean look at what these guys do. 30 km/h in mountain slopes for hours? Several times per week? And no worse for wear? Then off to do another Tour with you? There's being physically fit, there's being an athlete, and then there's having so much cardio you just seem superhuman. Not that it's an excuse, but it's understandable. Imagine trying to do that without any drug. For a while, maybe, but you burn out much faster.
 
donperkan said:
hehe missed my audience with this one.

Hassknecht said:
Doping is when you deliberately add impurities into a material, e.g. a semiconductor, to alter its physical properties.
Click to expand...

I don't even know what that means.

Thing is, all i know, he could be legit. Nothing was proven against him. It's all based on an analysis provided by the computer and all this analysis says is that his performance is beyond anything ever documented. Might even be luck or some other cosmic forces we know nothing about.
Click to expand...

I think the problem is, that Hassknecht is the Jimmy Neutron of NMA, proably with a big head as well.
 
Crni Vuk said:
donperkan said:
hehe missed my audience with this one.

Hassknecht said:
Doping is when you deliberately add impurities into a material, e.g. a semiconductor, to alter its physical properties.
Click to expand...

I don't even know what that means.

Thing is, all i know, he could be legit. Nothing was proven against him. It's all based on an analysis provided by the computer and all this analysis says is that his performance is beyond anything ever documented. Might even be luck or some other cosmic forces we know nothing about.
Click to expand...

I think the problem is, that Hassknecht is the Jimmy Neutron of NMA, proably with a big head as well.
Click to expand...
Actually, my head is really, really small, which makes me looking borderline retarded :D
 
And how would sports be better? I mean, sure, they'd score higher (if the sport is about that), but that's not really the point of the sport, is it?
Sports is about what a human can achieve with dedication and work. Using drugs to enhance performance is not sports, it's making money. It's reducing something admirable to a job. Fuck that.
 
If you legalize doping, where do you stop? Sports are supposed to be about skill, training and determination, not whoever swallows the biggest pill. It's bad enough when it's illegal, make it legal and you destroy any aspect of competition. It'll become like how Formala 1 was, where the pilot's skill mattered less than how much the engineering team fine-tuned his car and how much budget for that the team had. Na, I don't think it's a good idea.
 
its probably like always a bit more complicated like that. You had usually always the issue that doping would be very harmful and pretty dangerous.

But today you have many ways which fall in some kind of "gray" area. It can go so far where extremely conservative people consider it already doping if you do your training in areas with less oxygen to breathe because your body would somewhat get used to it.

I am not a friend of doping obviously it is against everything that sport stands for.

But I have read once about people that have genetical mutations in their blood cells or muscles (no clue really i cant remember anymore), which gave them a small advantage in endurance, simply because the way how their body and blood reacted to oxygen was different o "usual" people. It was something about the sport Biathlon.
 
I am curious how far performance encancement could possibly go. So far it has been forced to be cautious, but what if it was completely unleashed?

In order to keep sports clean, there could be a separate sub-branch of all sports, where all kinds of performance enhancing was allowed, in effect making it about which performance-enhancer works better. Manufacturers could compete at their hearts content, but I guess it would be kindov like those walls specifically made for grafitti - they don't do much to prevent all other walls from being tagged.

But I am curious, how fast could a human be made to run, with limitless and legal performance enhancement?
 
There are some genetic oddities that have some advantages.
For example there's one guy whose muscles don't suffer damage from continuous exercise. He once ran 50 marathons in 50 consecutive days in 50 different states and suffered less muscle damage than an ordinary person after one marathon.
 
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