Do you work in the video game industry?

Sduibek

Sduibek

Creator of Fallout Fixt
Moderator
Modder
If so, any advice on how to get in?

As those of you familiar with my FIXT mod probably already know I enjoy modding, but what you may not know I enjoy every part of game design -- the design itself, the programming, sounds, music, art, dialog.

I am in school right now and trying to figure out what to major in, with the eventual goal of getting into the game industry. Being a programmer, designer or artist is probably most likely, but I think I could also really dig being the guy who makes the music.

Anyway, I'll be talking with advisors and stuff at school, and some indie producers, but figured the good folks at NMA might also have some advice.

Cheers 8-)
 
Mad Max RW said:
Read this first: http://www.reddit.com/r/gamedev/comments/z83h2/the_games_industry_is_a_scam_and_this_is_why_you/
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To be fair and argue the other side:
1) A man who chooses not to follow his dreams because of the warnings and finger-waggling of others is no man at all.
2) Working for yourself or a small indie company will not necessarily be the same (although I'm not saying it won't be the same, I know it can be)
EDIT: Oh I guess he kinda said #2 himself.

That being said, thank you for the link! Seriously. Reddit and informed decisions for the win! I really enjoy reading stuff like this 8-)

Here's an interesting post:
I went to University for Game Design. During my studies, it dawned on me that this industry is extremely volatile. Just think of your favorite games of the past 2 decades; of the companies that made these games, how many of them are still around? I had also chatted with friends complaining about the workload at companies like Ubisoft.

When I graduated, I knew these companies weren't for me. I tried making my own game while unemployed, and the skill I demonstrated payed off. Now I have a job doing 3D Visualization for an engineering firm. It may not be my dream job, but I am salaried, there is actual job security and I get to do a lot of 3D modelling. I can see myself still being here in 10 years, which is almost unthinkable in the games industry.

Don't give up on your passions because the games market is so cutthroat. If you're really passionate about what you do, there are other markets that will give you a healthy work environment.
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Reading that, I am once again amazed at how American companies make their employees work amazingly long shifts.

I never got that. I mean, it's 2012 - hasn't it been proven abundantly by now that forcing people to work more than 10 hours a day actually decreases their productivity? That forcing them to spend too much time away from home leads to unhappy employees, which decreases their productivity? I mean, the whole "I'm a kick-ass employee because I work 50+ hours a week"-mentality, a hold-out from Victorian and Japanese economic theories, has been proven to cause way more problems than it solves for employers.
Especially in intellectual jobs - how the hell do you pull 10+ hour workdays without making a gigantic amount of errors? It baffles me. A fit, well-rested and concentrated mind can do as much in one hour as a tired mind does in four, and with way less errors.
 
You're calling it an American phenomenon when in reality it has nothing to do with America. It's ILLEGAL to "force" employees to work beyond 8 paid hours, in the USA. Now, some managers are weasels that will "provide incentive" for their employees to comply, such as asking them nicely, and if they decline they start making their job a living Hell. This can be done legally, but it can also be fought (but most simply cower and accept that they're screwed), provided there is ANY level of integrity among other managers; chiefly HR. Being a good or a bad manager and "forcing" workers to stay long hours is a HUMAN attribute, not strictly an American one.

Back on topic...

I'm not in the industry, but I look forward to getting in. As it so happens, I live a few miles from Obsidian, so IF they have any QA openings, I might just get in! =D Of course, that's a long-shot, but I dream. In the meanwhile, I follow a couple other companies that I just heard about the way we all run into things; happenstance, chance, etc. One of them started up under remarkable circumstances themselves, and they ALWAYS address the question (which is oft repeated, to them) "How do I get into the games industry?" They themselves hire out from the community from members who seem to display particular talents that they'd like to utilize, and their company has grown and prospered as a result of them addressing their community and nurturing valuable talent.

Basically, the suggestion comes down to "Stalk!" =D

Or something along those lines.....
 
SnapSlav said:
You're calling it an American phenomenon when in reality it has nothing to do with America. It's ILLEGAL to "force" employees to work beyond 8 paid hours, in the USA. Now, some managers are weasels that will "provide incentive" for their employees to comply, such as asking them nicely, and if they decline they start making their job a living Hell. This can be done legally, but it can also be fought (but most simply cower and accept that they're screwed), provided there is ANY level of integrity among other managers; chiefly HR. Being a good or a bad manager and "forcing" workers to stay long hours is a HUMAN attribute, not strictly an American one.
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"Ango-saxon" would've perhaps been a better description to use than "American".
Of course it's not strictly American, but one does seem to encounter mentalities like this mostly in Anglo-saxon (-inspired) companies. I can personally attest to that, having worked half a year at Ernst & Young before I told them to suck it.
 
Jebus said:
"Anglo-saxon" would've perhaps been a better description to use than "American".
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So pretty much this: :D

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Sduibek said:
If so, any advice on how to get in?

As most of you probably already know I enjoy modding, and as most of you probably don't know I enjoy every part of game design -- the design itself, the programming, sounds, music, art, dialog.

I am in school right now and trying to figure out what to major in, with the eventual goal of getting into the game industry. Being a programmer, designer or artist is probably most likely, but I think I could also really dig being the guy who makes the music.

Anyway, I'll be talking with advisors and stuff at school, and some indie producers, but figured the good folks at NMA might also have some advice.

Cheers 8-)
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I am not working with games, but I think many people started actually started their careers in different fields.

Its best to take some known game developers and look for their biography. Where have they started their career? Where have they acquired their degrees?

Some started with Graphic Design, others simply with programming, and so on. Its not rare that people also jump between branches. Doing story boards in games and movies for example. Just as how some musicians and story writers work for different fields.

I do hope to work in some creative job in the future. But I am currently learning graphic design as I think its the best to take one step at a time. Of course you can always try to start directly in the desired field. But I think it doesn't hurt to at least consider other branches as well. You never know if it comes in handy.

Jebus said:
"Ango-saxon" would've perhaps been a better description to use than "American".
Of course it's not strictly American, but one does seem to encounter mentalities like this mostly in Anglo-saxon (-inspired) companies. I can personally attest to that, having worked half a year at Ernst & Young before I told them to suck it.
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Its one of the reason why Walmart has closed their doors in Germany.

People knew when its worth to kick something out. No seriously. There have been many complains about to long shifts and rather silly working morale

But that was a long time ago ... now some German companies learnt how to do it. And now we have a form of slavery again. There are many hard jobs with lots of work and poor payment ...
 
What Crni said. Quite a few video game companies require previous experience in said field (design, programming, art), so you might want to start with at a more conventional company first. Besides, who knows? Maybe you'll like it so much you'll stay.
 
Jebus said:
I never got that. I mean, it's 2012 - hasn't it been proven abundantly by now that forcing people to work more than 10 hours a day actually decreases their productivity? That forcing them to spend too much time away from home leads to unhappy employees, which decreases their productivity? I mean, the whole "I'm a kick-ass employee because I work 50+ hours a week"-mentality, a hold-out from Victorian and Japanese economic theories, has been proven to cause way more problems than it solves for employers.
Especially in intellectual jobs - how the hell do you pull 10+ hour workdays without making a gigantic amount of errors? It baffles me. A fit, well-rested and concentrated mind can do as much in one hour as a tired mind does in four, and with way less errors.
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This sounds ridiculous coming from you, drone.
 
Didn't Josh Sawyer started by designing Black Isle's Web Page?

Personally I also dream of getting into the industry, althoutgh it would require either Move to another country (Colombia doesn't have a sizable game industry to speak of) or leading the Latin American Videogame Revolution. The first one is the easier one, and even then...
 
Alec said:
This sounds ridiculous coming from you, drone.
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How the fuck would you know otherwise? How the fuck would you know what hours I work, what I do for a living and how I spend my life? You don't know *shit* about me.
 
Walpknut said:
Personally I also dream of getting into the industry, althoutgh it would require either Move to another country (Colombia doesn't have a sizable game industry to speak of) or leading the Latin American Videogame Revolution. The first one is the easier one, and even then...
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Viva La Computadora Juegos Revuelta!
 
I'm a software developer and I've never worked in games, but have known a few people that have and most of them tended to work way more hours for equal or less pay. It's true they were in a more glamorous industry, but at least for programmers often the type the work ends being pretty similar to non-gaming jobs as much of what you do gets fairly abstracted, especially in bigger projects; I knew one guy who worked on big budget sports games and mostly worked on making the camera and views work better, it never sounded interesting to me at all, eventually the company closed shop, he got a job at non-gaming company and liked it better. I used to want to work in gaming, but some of the non-gaming products I worked on ended being more interesting for me, like things used to help build fighter planes or manage space rocket launches, and in a less stressful environment than the game people I knew.

Most the people I knew that worked at the game companies were hired with help from connections within the company, networking is even more important for a high demand field. Building up a huge portfolio to show off probably doesn't hurt either.

Games designers have the cooler job, but it is even competitive and probably has less application outside of the industry, in case you end up not liking it or it doesn't work out from some reason. If I was hardcore about working in the game industry I'd want to become a designer and accept whatever career and financial risks that came with it though.


I think writers and artists often take work wherever they can get it that fits with whatever they are trying to do; sometimes with games, sometimes selling it themselves, sometimes other media. It is obviously super competitive. I haven't met any computer game artists, but I have met a few fantasy artists whose work was used in trading cards games, but that was hardly the only places it was used or sold. Being able to promote yourself and find your audience and get noticed, among mass of other talented artist is important and can difficult.
 
Walpknut said:
Didn't Josh Sawyer started by designing Black Isle's Web Page?
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Yeah, but that was like 20 or what years ago. Times changed and it is pretty unlikely to get into the business nowadays with a job like that.
 
I was given an opportunity to become an in house writer for a London based game company a few years back. They said I used the old node based method of writing dialogue and then I never heard from them again :( I'm glad though because the evil corporation I work for pays well.
 
I spent 5 and a half years in the game industry. I worked for one company that I loved and 2 that I hated. However, in all of them I worked insane hours during crunch time for projects (which can last months...even years in some cases).

Now, it really all depends on what area you are going to work in and what level you come in as. But, my first piece of advice would be not to get in the game industry right out of school. Build a resume, and a salary base, in a different industry and then attempt to leverage that into a better position and salary when negotiating with a game company. There's no guarantee that you'll be able to negotiate that worthy salary, but if you start out in the game industry you will find yourself way behind the curve of similarly skilled professionals in your industry.

As others have said, for pretty much any position you might take in the game industry, you will work far more hours and earn far less in wages and benefits than doing the same job in other industries. There is simply too big of a pool of people like you that think of it as their dream job, willing to step in and take the spot from somebody that's disgruntled. And the companies would simply rather hire that person, rather than improve working conditions for disgruntled employees.

Now, if you want to get a "good" position at a game company, then you need to have something to show them. Whether it's an indie game, mod, or total conversion, create something on your own that is capable of wowing people, and you might be able to start off at a little better level. But you have to have created something, because they aren't going to be impressed by your education. In fact, the game industry, out of all the other industries I've worked in had by far the most people without college degrees of any other. They really don't give a thought to your education background. It's not what you know, it's what you can show.

So by all means, follow your dream, but don't think you are just going to get any job at a game company and work your way up. It's a soul-crushing industry that way. I'd recommend seeing if you have what it takes to create something on your own. If you do, you might have what it takes to work yourself a niche in the industry working for some company. Get together with your fellow students and take the opportunity while you are in school to create something. Many indie projects have started as school projects. A few very successful recent Kickstarter's in fact.
 
Dude101 said:
They said I used the old node based method of writing dialogue and then I never heard from them again :(
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How else would one write branching dialog?
 
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