Dungeons and Dragons(4th edition)

P

Pablosdog

Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?
Not totally sure if this belongs in the roleplaying board(probably does, although the guidelines talk about in character posts.) Anyways, a few weeks back I got into playing it. Being a fan of advanced and even 3rd edition I came into this with an open mind.




Oh god, the horror.

In place of Spells/Attack is at will powers, basically a complete carbon copy of World of warcraft spells. Gone is Variety is nonexistant and even the layout in the player's handbook is minimal. Gone are Gnomes/Half-Orcs races in place are the tiefling/eladrin and dragonborn(Yes, there are two elf races). Hit points have been raised(including monsters, which makes it completely pointless in doing o in the first place) and nearly every class plays the same. Thanks to healing surges the idea of a battle healer is nearly useless.

Bard/Barbarian/Druid/Monks don't exist, instead they will be released later on to garner more money from the idiots who bought 20 different sourcebooks of 3rd edition literally only a few months ago.(that includes me) Dual-classing can only occur at 11th level or 1st, and you can only pick ONE feat or power from that class.


Not to mention that in the Dm's guide it basically points you into the direction of buying there campaign books. At 30 bucks a pop(canadian/american) and only lasting a few sessions, D&D is becoming a more expensive hobby than ever. A larger reliance on D&D Minis and wargaming completly pisses the hell out of me(Yes I know Gary gygax made wargames, but at least every edition before this had better examples of ROLE playing, not rollplaying.)

Any opinions on this bastardization of Dnd?
 
Pablosdog said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roll_playing

of course not.
Click to expand...

So much for notability standards.

Anyway, enough drivel has been spouted on the subject on the Wizards forum. I have no desire to wade through more of it here.
 
Thanks for the heads up. I've been a DM since 2nd Edition, and have been considering moving my guys over to 4th Ed.

Maybe I'll stick with 3.5.

From what I've read they've tried to streamline D&D to compete better with the MMO's.
 
very true, it's all pretty geared towards the mmo/wow crowd.

and per...i was kidding ;) I'm very aware that you know what "roll" playing is, I was just being a smartass.
 
I say fuck dnd and use your

IMAGINATION

Cause you can do anything with your

IMAGINATION






ok I'm done now. Still a big d20 fan, don't know anything about the fourth edition of dnd. I probably wouldn't spend my money on it.
 
I'll stick with my 2nd ed or my CP2020, the white wolf tabletop isn't too bad and works well with other systems (there are even expansion source books.) but I don't like it enough to try and push the bit and play it.

Deadlands looks interesting but I'm having a hell of a time finding source books for it sadly...
 
I hardly ever have the time to play anymore, but after getting a good look at the hollowed-out shell that stands in for the 4th Edition PHB, all of my RP'er friends have abandoned new D&D releases completely for Shadowrun 4E.

Of course, it can be a pisser finding the books, but they're worth it, especially when you're judging comparatively.
 
I ended up giving up D&D a long time ago for the White Wolf series. White Wolf not that long ago re-invented it's World of Darkness books from the ground up which I'm really enjoying(though I can't find anyone less than an hour away running a game(anyone have a good site for finding games?)). I liked D&D, but the combat took for friggin ever, and that was my least favorite part...then the treasure rolls and blah blah blah...lets get back to the GAME already!

I did hear good things about 4ed though. I don't know what you mean by the MMO/WoW crowd. Could you expand upon that please?
 
The D&D series has always had a pedigree for intricacy... even with the adoption of the (generally) streamlined and simplified play mechanics that the 3.5 Edition used, it could be a punishing game, one where you had to think carefully and manage your resources to avoid getting boned. There was also a great degree of character options, provided that you really wanted to micro-manage your abilities or fine-tune your character concept. It was a game that you could enjoy mastering the finer points of, and that lent itself at least as well to storytelling as to sword-swinging.

4th Edition is designed more to be quick and flashy, with more of an emphasis on sustained combat. A lot of options for character definition have been stunted or removed, and even the core gaming world has been re-designed to appeal more to the OMGWOW crowd than to those who appreciate their fantasy a bit more subtle. It's been streamlined to the point where I really can see a table full of 7th graders putting down their Yu-Gi-Oh cards in favor of a quick-and-easy D&D hack-n-slash. That kind of marketability was a large part of Wizards of the Coast's aim with the redesign, which is the real shame of it.

Really, the best analogy would be that 4th Edition D&D is to 3rd Edition D&D what console gaming is to PC gaming.
 
Yamu said:
The D&D series has always had a pedigree for intricacy... even with the adoption of the (generally) streamlined and simplified play mechanics that the 3.5 Edition used, it could be a punishing game, one where you had to think carefully and manage your resources to avoid getting boned. There was also a great degree of character options, provided that you really wanted to micro-manage your abilities or fine-tune your character concept. It was a game that you could enjoy mastering the finer points of, and that lent itself at least as well to storytelling as to sword-swinging.

4th Edition is designed more to be quick and flashy, with more of an emphasis on sustained combat. A lot of options for character definition have been stunted or removed, and even the core gaming world has been re-designed to appeal more to the OMGWOW crowd than to those who appreciate their fantasy a bit more subtle. It's been streamlined to the point where I really can see a table full of 7th graders putting down their Yu-Gi-Oh cards in favor of a quick-and-easy D&D hack-n-slash. That kind of marketability was a large part of Wizards of the Coast's aim with the redesign, which is the real shame of it.

Really, the best analogy would be that 4th Edition D&D is to 3rd Edition D&D what console gaming is to PC gaming.
Click to expand...

I have a somewhat low opinion of console gaming, so all I can say is wow. I guess I find it hard to imagine how they could have gutted it so badly. I think the last edition I bought was 3, and that seemed pretty good, considering how I felt about D&D overall.

I don't see a problem with them creating something that would allow for a quick hack and slash, as that would help them stay competitive, but to take all of it down to that level surprises me. I guess I'll have to take a look at the 4ed book in a book store and just see for myself what they've done to it.
 
Dudes-

you know if you admit to playing Dungeons & Dragons when you were a teen, you are also admitting to being both a socially awkward nerd and a geek.

To be fair, I admit that I did a few years of D&D, but then discovered girls.

Then discovered rejection and returned to D&D. Now I try to get my wife to dress up as Elvin chick, because.. well... they are hot.

OK, I jest.

To me D&D got kind of stupid as you got to the higher levels. I actually like Call of Cthulhu roleplay which is pretty decent although combat is a pain in the ass.

If interested in CoC roleplay try play@yog-sothoth.com

We took a roleplay we began here- Zombie Apocalypse (about a Zombie Apocalypse) and moved it there and it rocks.
 
Just signed up, looks intresting, probably should order a rule book first though. I am a huge H.P lovecraft fan, so I know I could get into this.


I hide my geekyness from every girl, well, except my past girlfriends, who figured it was "Cute" It helps being a half socialite! I only wish i could get a girl to dress like an elf and not think that i was a total douche for doing so.

Imagine applying the d20 logic to every real life situation?
 
Yamu said:
Really, the best analogy would be that 4th Edition D&D is to 3rd Edition D&D what console gaming is to PC gaming.
Click to expand...

Isn't that analogy a bit... strong?

I mean they made Dnd more like World of Warcraft, which is a PC game.

When it comes to dumbed down gameplay I have to say WoW is king.
 
welsh said:
Dudes-

you know if you admit to playing Dungeons & Dragons when you were a teen, you are also admitting to being both a socially awkward nerd and a geek.

To be fair, I admit that I did a few years of D&D, but then discovered girls.

Then discovered rejection and returned to D&D. Now I try to get my wife to dress up as Elvin chick, because.. well... they are hot.

OK, I jest.

To me D&D got kind of stupid as you got to the higher levels. I actually like Call of Cthulhu roleplay which is pretty decent although combat is a pain in the ass.

If interested in CoC roleplay try play@yog-sothoth.com

We took a roleplay we began here- Zombie Apocalypse (about a Zombie Apocalypse) and moved it there and it rocks.
Click to expand...

When I ran DnD campaigns, my friends tended to get pissed over the long run because they would spend so much time in between level 4-10, and then I would usually find a way to wrap it up at that point. I think level 5-6 were my favorite levels in that game...and I kept the characters in that range for the majority of time. The high levels of DnD have ALWAYS bored me...

Hmm, CoC seems interesting, I'll take a loot at that.

I have a big rubbermaid box in my shed with a labal that says "Why I Never Got Laid In Highschool". I have a much smaller and inconspicuous box in the house where I keep all my current contraband hidden...my RPG books.
 
Per said:
Pablosdog said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roll_playing

of course not.
Click to expand...

So much for notability standards.

Anyway, enough drivel has been spouted on the subject on the Wizards forum. I have no desire to wade through more of it here.
Click to expand...

It's d&d, maaaaan. The drivel never stops, yknooooooo. Omigod, i rolled a natural twanty on my SPEECH test, i totally crushed your feeble arguments, lawl.

---

Coincidentally, me and my rpg mates gave up d&d 3,5 in favour of Warhammer frpg 2 JUST because the combat is 23723742974923742 times faster.

And the fact that magic is not only utter shit, but also extra rare, helps add a measure of 'realism' and atmosphere to the sessions.

Giving 4th ed of d&d a wide step around for the time being. Will wait for the couple of thousand more supplements to fill in the gaps.
 
me and my rpg friends gave 4th a spin the other day. I was disappointed in it. The one thing I did enjoy was that the combat, in contrast to 3rd seemed more dynamic (This in regards to what you do in combat, not the spells and attacks).

They seed to want to simplify the 3rd rules a bit, but failed at it, now you have a cheesy game that seems to me to have a ficus of driving hack and slash campaigns.
 
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