Fallout: Between Good & Evil November Update

[Brother None]

With a bit of a delay on our side, here's Fallout TC mod BG&E's update for the month, bringing a mix of awesomeness and bad news.<blockquote>Dear readers, fans and mutants,
BGE is gradually becoming an evergreen, as it's almost certainly not going to be released in 2009. The depth, originality and the amount of dialogs, pushed ahead at the very beginning by some jerk - let us call him me - straight away made this a long track to run, and until all these things are worked out and I'm satisfied, it most certainly won't be released. And just by the way, if you're interested in financing a capable and motivated team, definitely let me know.

Since you're probably disappointed we've decided to traditionally (i.e. the easy way out) compensate by presenting some of our work. This time it's not necessarily something we're working on right now, but I guess that doesn't really matter:

Screenshots


Artworks



Since the last update two new artists have joined us externally - draftsman MICHAL a.k.a. REVIVAL (Deviant Art/Human Art portfolio), and X'IL, who is helping with editing and creating animations of various creatures. On the other hand modeler RAMSES IV has left the team (we thank him for all the new game items).

We're still eager to find more and more handy artists, particularly animators and for the future purposes also volunteers able to work with cut-scenes. However all BGE's hiccups are nothing compared to the biggest, and by now traditional, problem, which is a lack of Czech and Slovakian programmers, who we are very willing to train. We do have four programmers working busily but unless we at least double this number and all these cries for help of mine won't be answered, we'll be seing updates beginning just like this one for quite some time. And then we'll start seeing BGE being used in lame geeky jokes in the same way as Duke Nukem Forever.

Oh well, see you under the Christmas tree.</blockquote>

 

[Chris Parks]

We do have four programmers working busily

Seriously? That;s four times the number on MR. Don't complain.

Screenies are nice. Last one is particularly cool.

So no BGE under the tree this year? Damn.

 

[UnidentifiedFlyingTard]

I'm digging the concept art.

 

[Goweigus]

I'm warming up to exphoria, and I must say...

I freaking love the fallout series
the first game, the second game, Tactics was ok
and even the 3rd with all its wonderful mods

This series is freaking amazing, and wonderful, and i even love all the hateful NMA members and its community (its is a great community not well understood by most

I freaking love the concept art, love this mod, think its great to have this game to look forward too even though in a sense its over 10 years old

 

[BunkerBud]

aw yea

that oil rig is fkn great

 

[Deadman87]

As mentioned, the concept art is stunning.
I just first now read up on this mod and I am glad I haven't done so before, as it just gives me one more thing to have to uncontrollably wait for (Killaps mod and now this).

The goals you had set for this mod is super impressive I hope you manage to pull it off, if only just 1/3's of it.

 

[Petrell]

Looks interesting and as said concept art is great and most definately better and more Fallouthy than any concept released from Interplay's V13. Maybe they should hire your concept artist(s)

 

[lisac2k]

I agree, concept art is simply overwhelming. And the dialogs look quite good to me.

Incinerator sign should be re-rendered (blue pixels on edges). Let me guess, brother_soifran rendered that one?

EDIT: ah, yes, when I'm nitpicking already... 2nd screen: the fire in firepit could use some of the yellow nuances as well, the small grass-bushes might need a shadow. I would nitpick about kind-of-turbines as well, but I think you're already aware what's wrong with them (transparent pixels), so you might just wanna fix that too.

 

[MrBumble]

Can someone explain why concept art looks better than everything we've seen from FO3 and FOnline so far ?

It's fanmade for christ sake !! Why can't official Fallout games do it right ?

 

[dirtbag]

Most stuff looks good, but something about the concrete walls didn't seem right.

EDIT: I know what. Make them darker, and more dirt on the bottom against the ground would make them looking more fit in

 

[Arr0nax]

We do have four programmers working busily but unless we at least double this number and all these cries for help of mine won't be answered

This what depress me in the today modding situation. People literally wasting time modding an old engine where they could write a new one with just a little more vision and programming knowledge, but less time investment. Modding Fallout2 is a hassle. It takes WAAAAY too much time to do way to little.
The only thing going up for modding is the assets, but they too can be imported into another engine.

This team seems great, the artworks are impressively better than anything we have seen on Fallout3 and Project V13, and there really seem to be an atmosphere and an emphasis on writing.

 

[Verevoof]

You know, with all these great promising mods, and Fallout inspired games, Interplay, Bethesda, and Obsidian (well, haven't seen anything from NV yet) should freakin' look into hiring you cats. The fans obviously know Fallout better than these companies (especially Bethesda). Awesome concept art, I hope to see this, and the other mods (hi MR ) completed.

 

[Lexx]

Bullshit, if you know the shit you are doing, a Fallout (2) mod can be done in the same time as a Gothic or whatever other mod. I can add a new weapon into Fallout 2 in the same time as someone is doing it for Fallout 3.

The main problem for Fallout (2) mods is just that there are not enough people who are really willing to spend a lot time on creating the mods.

Man, it's really no problem to rule out - as example - SD2 in less than one year. It just needs a) good writers with a lot time and WILL and b) scripters with the same attitude. That's all. One year deadline? Absolutly no problem then.

But if there are not enough people to work on it all their free time long, because of whatever reason, then it will not work. And that's the case with a lot Fallout 2 mods and many other mods for other games.

So... writing a new engine 'n shit will not fasten up nor makes editing easy in any kind of way, if the needed people don't have enough time or not enough will, etc.

 

[Arr0nax]

Bullshit, if you know the shit you are doing, a Fallout (2) mod can be done in the same time as a Gothic or whatever other mod. I can add a new weapon into Fallout 2 in the same time as someone is doing it for Fallout 3.

That's an easy example.
What if you want to add a new quest ? The scripting system is just old, outdated. You just have a bunch of global variables to work with, and it takes ages getting everything working together. Besides, anything too complicated where you would need more complex code to be executed is just impossible.
What if you want to write a complex branched dialogue with scripted checks ? You have to write everything by hand. That's not fast.
What if you want to create a map ? The mapper is just ugly, slow and painful. Creating a map takes way too much hassle whereas it should be easy and straightforward.
What if you want to change or tweak some parts of the combat system ? It's just impossible.

The main problem for Fallout (2) mods is just that there are not enough people who are really willing to spend a lot time on creating the mods.

And did you by any chance ask you WHY they get bored ? Because it's so damn complicated and slow. People get tired, because the efforts are infinitely disproportioned in regard to the results you get. Writing a quest for a game shouldn't take months to a single guy, it should take one day. And an engine where this would be possible would just take little vision and dedication.

Using another engine like FIFE, or writing your own, you could get the look'n'feel of Fallout, but much more customizable, with few efforts.

 

[Lexx]

What if you want to add a new quest ? The scripting system is just old, outdated. You just have a bunch of global variables to work with, and it takes ages getting everything working together.

Just some global vars to be switched. To include a new quest that is marked as a quest is not that easy, but it's also not the big world. I wouldn't say it takes "ages getting everything working together", because in most cases it is just simple yes/no variables.

Besides, anything too complicated where you would need more complex code to be executed is just impossible.

Depends. Right now, we can - in theory - change everything. Of course it is not easy and if someone never has done stuff like that before, it's for this person not possible. But well... see, we already added new buttons and even changed the interface in general with a bit more work.

What if you want to write a complex branched dialogue with scripted checks ? You have to write everything by hand. That's not fast.

There is at least the fan made fallout dialogue editor, if I remember correctly right now. But beside this, a dialogue editor would be just a additional tool and doesn't get the size of a new engine.

What if you want to create a map ? The mapper is just ugly, slow and painful. Creating a map takes way too much hassle whereas it should be easy and straightforward.

I can build every map in one or two days... It's definitive not the best tool of the world and we all agree on the fact that there are many things that could be better, but still... if you know what you are doing, building a map is not much more of a hassle. I personally also would love to have a way to "paint" buildings on the map. Yeah, that would be great... but it's not possible here and that's ok too, because we can't change it. But just because of this writing a new engine? Meh.

What if you want to change or tweak some parts of the combat system ? It's just impossible.

Engine hacks are pretty much possible right now and was already before - the game (or.. fallout.exe) is very well known until now and so it became easier to edit hardcodet stuff. Like, as example, the traits, which we already changed for Shattered Destiny 2 too.

And did you by any chance ask you WHY they get bored ?

Yes, after more than 10 years while making mods for every game here and there, I can honestly say, that a lot people start with something and stop right after. Hell, Crysis has great modding tools, still a lot mods are getting started and die soon after... Unreal has great modding tools, a lot people start with making mods and stop right after. That's how it works.

People get tired, because the efforts are infinitely disproportioned in regard to the results you get.

If you know the game and the engine and if you know what's possible and how... then you know what you get if you spend x efforts on something.

Writing a quest for a game shouldn't take months to a single guy, it should take one day.

Like I wrote above, if you know how stuff works, you can write a dialogue on one day and finish the scripting the next day. I have done this a lot with SD1. But regardless of that, writing a GOOD dialogue for a RPG should always take some time or else you might end up with mediocre straight forward linear shitty-shit.

So much to that.

/Edit: To make it clear: I don't say that it's a bad idea to make a new engine or whatever. It's just that it isn't that impossible to make a Fallout 2 mod, as if you would build a cathedral on your own and so on.

 

[Chris Parks]

What if you want to add a new quest ? The scripting system is just old, outdated. You just have a bunch of global variables to work with, and it takes ages getting everything working together. Besides, anything too complicated where you would need more complex code to be executed is just impossible.
What if you want to write a complex branched dialogue with scripted checks ? You have to write everything by hand. That's not fast.
What if you want to create a map ? The mapper is just ugly, slow and painful. Creating a map takes way too much hassle whereas it should be easy and straightforward.
What if you want to change or tweak some parts of the combat system ? It's just impossible.

Are you trying to tell us in an oh so suttle way that you can't do these things?

TBH I don't agree. |I've mapped a full town in a day before and I've fully scripted complex cities with around 15 quests in ten days.

YEah, its not that straightforward, but with the tools we have its not that hard either. WIth timeslip's work, its even easier than it used to be.

I wouldn't mind seeing a new engine, but its not going to happen. Why would people, such as myslef, Jesterka, Lexx etc just abandon our own projects to work on a new engine (several years work?) just to have to start making those projects again in a new engine. We would have been finished with the old tools by then!

I would like to see more cooperation between large projects but even that's a dream.

 

[Dionysus]

Can someone explain why concept art looks better than everything we've seen from FO3 and FOnline so far ?

FO3 actually had some nice concept art, if you can remember back that far. The stuff from FOOL looks pretty rough.

 

[lisac2k]

I've made Vault Rats in two weeks, investing an average effort in it.

I must agree with Lexx/CP, it's not that hard to make a mod for Fallout 2.

 

[Jesterka]

Seriously? That;s four times the number on MR. Don't complain.

Maybe BGE's four times bigger - you never know. Lets say I want to be sure and well supplied. Moreover I guess there's enough possible manpower - just find them and reduce to slavery.

The goals you had set for this mod is super impressive I hope you manage to pull it off, if only just 1/3's of it.

1/3? Never. Everything and hopefully well debugged. I don't have too much to do anyway, the world's more or less boring and empty. 2010, 2015, or 2020, is that really relevant? I personally predict perfectly immortal life to original Fallouts, just like Hitchcock's movies, Led Zeppelin, or Elvis.

Looks interesting and as said concept art is great and most definately better and more Fallouthy than any concept released from Interplay's V13. Maybe they should hire your concept artist(s)

Probably not; they'd grab on equally or more skilled sketchy-sketchy guy in the USA as easy, if they really care about.

And the most funny thing is that I found out the guy's living 10 kilometers "far" from me. Well, this is good old weeny Europe.

Incinerator sign should be re-rendered (blue pixels on edges). Let me guess, brother_soifran rendered that one?

No, Jotisz did the whole "family" of related signs in 2008. Holy truth: no time to discuss every newly added second-rate art with the team. Besides, it's very shitty, black work. Am I right, Contie & Zobbie?

EDIT: I know what. Make them darker, and more dirt on the bottom against the ground would make them looking more fit in

You're absolutely right, those are underground walls aborginaly. As I suggested to Lisac above, we like to play with the maps (IMHO/probably) more than the other modders are used to do, but everything has its reasonable limits.

You know, with all these great promising mods, and Fallout inspired games, Interplay, Bethesda, and Obsidian (well, haven't seen anything from NV yet) should freakin' look into hiring you cats. The fans obviously know Fallout better than these companies (especially Bethesda).

Lets say we are totally free and creatively unlimited above all. A fucking oldschool! A true dark video-gaming underground!

Bullshit, if you know the shit you are doing, a Fallout (2) mod can be done in the same time as a Gothic or whatever other mod. I can add a new weapon into Fallout 2 in the same time as someone is doing it for Fallout 3.

Don't worry about BGE in this way. So long as I'm a hard-core dictator with the last word veto, there won't be place for any modernizations and putsches made by unexperienced 16-yrs-old newcomers with "big eyes".


Well, thanks for the surprisingly favourable comments (no EN dialogue errors nitpicking any more?! C'mon, that was a classics!) and enjoy the rest of the waiting for BGE.


P.S. Here's some inspiration for this NPC/dialog. There'll be about 20 more dialogue-friendly NPCs in this area. Just saying.


P.P.S. (and last EDIT): Best looking (biiig) version of the skethes

 

[Karel]

This what depress me in the today modding situation. People literally wasting time modding an old engine where they could write a new one with just a little more vision and programming knowledge, but less time investment. Modding Fallout2 is a hassle. It takes WAAAAY too much time to do way to little.
The only thing going up for modding is the assets, but they too can be imported into another engine.

Did you ever try to create your own engine? Now you have two problems - developing the game and the engine. Plus a lot of ingame art to recreate and no post-apo 256 colors atmosphere.