Fallout: New Vegas Honest Hearts Reviews

[Crni Vuk]

I think you guys argue about 2 different things.

If I get Vrede correctly he simply does not "do" DLCs. Which is my stand as well. I never buy DLCs because I see them as rip off.

People here say though that Obsidian's DLCs are different and they actually are worth the prize.

That actually is not a contradiction in my eyes though. It just means that some of us don't do it because of the principle. And that for us the old saying counts:

"Exception that proves the rule":

for me 90% of the DLCs out there are garbage. From what I can read anyway. I prefer a lot more the Ad dons which ad a lot more but take a bit more time to finish. See Supreme Commander forged alliance. To small for a full game yet it is somewhat 1/3 the size of Supreme Commander. Now I bought it for like 15$ (new), and get a lot of time and content for quite some time. A DLC usualy is most of the time a quest. A few new items as well. And you can finish it in a relatively short time (usually) and you pay very often either the same prize or something like 8-10$. Feels wrong to me somehow.

That Obsidian is throwing out high quality DLCs is a good thing. And I bet they are worth the money. But I simply chose not to support that kind of business model by principle because I have the feeling the model around DLCs is rotten to the core. I guess it is similar for Vrede.

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

It just means that some of us don't do it because of the principle.

And can you possibly say that this "principle" is anything other than a sort of juvenile and arbitrarily-attributed sense of morality based on a disproportionate sense of entitlement and nostalgia for a time when "things were simpler and better"? Because from the outside looking in (as a creative person who admires other creative people and will gladly pay money for their efforts) that's exactly (and exclusively) what it looks like.

The only principle which makes sense in any consumer-based situation is "Am I getting my money's worth". People gladly pay $10 to see a film in a theater and they don't even get to take a damn thing home with them. But they've gained an experience that they cannot get at home (at least not yet) , so in a sense, it was worth it if they weighed that decision against their desire for the entertainment.

There really is no need to complicate the issue with home-spun, arm-chair philosophies.

 

[Brother None]

That Obsidian is throwing out high quality DLCs is a good thing. And I bet they are worth the money. But I simply chose not to support that kind of business model by principle because I have the feeling the model around DLCs is rotten to the core. I guess it is similar for Vrede.

That doesn't make a ton of sense. Yes, the model as a whole has been used to make scam-level of DLC, nickle and diming people to death, so the principle to refuse to buy the gross of it makes sense, I do the same.

But if a DLC noticeably breaks the mold and actually does give you value for your money, by your logic shouldn't you be encouraging that by buying it?

Also I must've vatted a ton of posts out of this thread. Debate civilly or don't debate at all. If this keeps up I'm handing out strikes.

 

[Stanislao Moulinsky]

Yes it does mean exactly that.

No, it doesn't. It means that if, as you said, they cut things that were obviously part of the original game or would have been normally included with the game if DLCs didn't exist.

This kind of DLCs don't fall into that category.


This is the entertainment industry right?
What movie producer comes saying "hey, we have a new scene for our movie available now, so come and see it for 5 bucks more"

or a book author coming up with a new chapter in his already released book?

The picture of Dorian Grey.
Ten little indians/And Then There Were None.
Various Director's cuts.

People would be furious if that happened... yet, in the game industry, it's apparently perfectly fine. Because it's not another game they're selling you. It's "content", for the same game. Content!!! Get it??? Well, apparently not.

I get it. What you don't get is that it's not a bad thing if the content is good, worth its price and it doesn't fall in the "removed from the game" category.

"Wing Commander - The secret mission" was a scam? "Oh no, more Lemmings" was a scam?

 

[Brother None]

I get it. What you don't get is that it's not a bad thing if the content is good, worth its price and it doesn't fall in the "removed from the game" category.

Now here's an angle I don't get. What does it matter if its already on the disc? Regardless, the developers put the same kind of effort into it. The budgeting is the same. All they did was finish it up before release. There is no actual difference, it's just a blatant reminder you're being scammed. And people don't like being reminded of that.

 

[Cimmerian Nights]

Supreme Commander

Didn't SC offer tons of free DLC as well? Funny how when it was free it didn't need a catchy marketing term, it was just called free content.

I can remember back in the heydays of SSI, them offering free content and online play. And many times they would use it as an optional incentive to register the product, quid pro quo. Win-win situation. As opposed to heavy-handed approach we see today with DRM and one-time use Keys or whatever methods they use to control distribution.

But if a DLC noticeably breaks the mold and actually does give you value for your money, by your logic shouldn't you be encouraging that by buying it?

Yeah, but in the same instance, I don't need instant gratification. I'm not sure why I need to pay $10 a pop now, when I can wait and buy the whole package, after it's been properly patched up and polished, off E-bay for 20 bucks a year from now. I'm in no rush, and I'd rather not support this model either.

How much would the game and all it's DLC total to, purchased new? Over $100 dollars? For someone like me who's willing to wait until it's rock bottom, or not at all, that's horrible value.
I'll let the secondary market set the market value for me, not an arbitrary cover price.

I have to ask why they are following the same distribution model set by FO3. I don't think it's the creative, artistic side driving this model despite the level of quality. It's Obsidian being contractually obligated by Bethesda to do so.

 

[Crni Vuk]

That Obsidian is throwing out high quality DLCs is a good thing. And I bet they are worth the money. But I simply chose not to support that kind of business model by principle because I have the feeling the model around DLCs is rotten to the core. I guess it is similar for Vrede.

But if a DLC noticeably breaks the mold and actually does give you value for your money, by your logic shouldn't you be encouraging that by buying it?

Of course. Sure you can. I am not saying this is a black or white choice. There is definitely a lot in between. But I have to say I am probably the wrong person for it simply because I rarely if ever care even enough for DLCs. Regardless how good they might be I simply prefer to have something in my hands. A DVD or something like that. Hence why 95% of the games I own are actually under my desk in some locker. Stupid I know. But that's how I am. I sure don't attack those people which bought either Honest Hearts or Dead Money.

Now here's an angle I don't get. What does it matter if its already on the disc? Regardless, the developers put the same kind of effort into it. The budgeting is the same. All they did was finish it up before release. There is no actual difference, it's just a blatant reminder you're being scammed. And people don't like being reminded of that.

That is probably one of the main issues I have with DLCs. Thx BN for your wise words . Has nothing to do with Obsidian of course.

Supreme Commander

Didn't SC offer tons of free DLC as well? Funny how when it was free it didn't need a catchy marketing term, it was just called free content. .

Frankly I don't know it because as said I never buy DLCs and thus I am not interested in them. I just saw a SC addon once in a shop. Bought it. Played it. And liked it a lot as it was basically like the core game just with more content and different story just for the addon (which I liked even more compared to the original).

*Though to say that. Free content is for me on a whole different level then DLCs you have to pay for which is what I am talking about. Because I can't see why some pay 1.99 for some armor or 8-10 dollar for a 2 ours quest or 2-3 maps in some online shooter

There really is no need to complicate the issue with home-spun, arm-chair philosophies.

You know that reminds me to something.

<s></s>

TwinkieGorilla: Want some <s>beacon</s> DLC?
Wuk: No man, I don't <s>eat pork</s> do DLC's.
TwinkieGorilla: Are you Jewish?
Wuk: Nah, I ain't Jewish, I just don't dig on <s>swine</s> DLC, that's all.
TwinkieGorilla: Why not?
Wuk: <s>Pigs</s> DLC's are filthy <s>animals</s> Software. I don't <s>eat filthy animals</s> do filthy software.
TwinkieGorilla: <s>Bacon tastes</s> DLC's gooood. <s>Pork chops taste</s> Obsidian DLC's gooood.
Wuk: Hey, sewer rat may taste like pumpkin pie, but I'd never know 'cause I wouldn't <s>eat</s> do the filthy motherfucker. <s>Pigs sleep and root in shit </s> Many DLCs just are a blatant reminder you're being scammed . That's a filthy <s>animal</s> software. I ain't <s>eat</s> do nothin' that ain't got sense enough to disregard its own feces.
...

*Of course that is more meant just for funn

 

[Stanislao Moulinsky]

Now here's an angle I don't get. What does it matter if its already on the disc? Regardless, the developers put the same kind of effort into it. The budgeting is the same. All they did was finish it up before release. There is no actual difference, it's just a blatant reminder you're being scammed. And people don't like being reminded of that.

If you know the answer why you don't get it?

More seriously, if it's not on the disc already there's always the chance the developer actually worked on it (whatever "it" is) after the release so you are actually paying them for extra work. Or at least you can pretend that's the case, something you can't do if the content is already there but locked out.
But in general is obvious what's the stuff removed from the game and what isn't, so at the end of the day it doesn't really make any difference.

 

[tekhedd]

So is Sam & Max Save the World also an abomination, or is that something else?

Oh hey Per.
You tell me. Didn't know it even existed. Google is a friend. Not much smarter now that I do, hehe.
To each his own I say. I'm a little old for that.

Heh. When you're too old for Sam and Max, you're too old.

 

[Per]

There really is no need to complicate the issue with home-spun, arm-chair philosophies.

Agreed, pre-fabricated, mail-order philosophies will do just fine for complicating the shit out of any issue.