Fallout vs Balduers Gate

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Well, this may well be in the wrong area but what the heck..

I can't understand why Balduers Gate is worshiped so much, and Fallout isn't. The one thing that utterly ruins BG for me is real time combat. Why?? You have full party to look after casting spells and all that but it just seems like rush forward and click on everything, and just die.

I must be missing something.
 
Consumer Whores:

The name of AD&D is what pulls most of the weight for Baldur's Gate, nevermind that the first one is nearly a Daiblowthon Yawn. The second one was much better for the most part, but seemed just the same at times - click, watch them kill, click, cast spell....*yawn*

Whereas in Fallout, you get almost a sniper's rush of aiming at an enemy and then pushing the mouse button like it was the squeeze of the trigger. That was more fun than just generally guiding around a mindless troupe a la Baldur's Gate, or even FOT in "CTB" (real-time).
 
My opinion

I havent posted on boards here at all for months -oops- anyway i think that one of the main sellers for BG was its story, spell system, and character development. BTW: Try your -point-click-kill- formula on a DemiLich, and for whoever posted the topic originally, i do beleive a function cause *pause* allows you to give orders to your party while (duh) paused. Another BTW : Roshambo, the AI scripts added alot of depth, and really could help out during combat...Much less micromanagement... BG is also *quite* hard, while i was able to breeze throught Fallout 1 and 2 in a ridiculously short amount of time. I recently got BG 2: Throne of Bhaal, that is quite a good game. In fact, i recently reinstalled the original BG in order to replay the game as a bard ( i played throught twice as mage and a paladin) enormous fun. Im not saying Fallout is a bad game, FO2 Ranks as among the best games I have ever played, I just think that BG22 has more depth/length/story than Fallout 2.. This is gettin long, i suppose ill sign off for now and wait for an angry reply from a fallout fanatic (which i am, basically, i have all 3 games, and huge amounts of mods)
 
Which scripts are these?

[font size=1" color="#FF0000]LAST EDITED ON Sep-18-01 AT 04:51AM (GMT)[p]The ones where the mage walks up to the gnoll to fireball them?

Oh, yes. Loads of fun.

I also like nailing that space-bar every 5 seconds like a crack-rat waiting for it's next fix. Or set it to every round and constantly unpause it.

Sorry, AD&D has become far too cliche with the IE. Even playing a stock DikuMUD has more enjoyment over the same old crap. If I wanted to play a basic AD&D game, I'd go with Gold Box or Silver Box.

Or like a *MUCH* better-crafted game, like Planescape: Torment.
 
SPOILERS FOR THOSE WHOM HAVEN'T STARTED BG

Torment was a great game and is absolutely my favorite, it's a good system with good character developtment and good most things. A little short for my liking though. In my opinon fallout used a great basic storyline creating the wasteland after WWIII, plus their stroy for each of the towns along the way was great. Particulary in fallout 2. I would say of they used basic concepts in planescape torment in Fallout 3 we would have a brilliant game. Fallout was crap with main character, Fallout 2 was better but i would say more Torment level. That was the distinction between those two games for me

As For BG i've only reached the mines (Nashkel isn't it?)with an underdeveloped Fighter/Mage but the game looks rather pathetic to me. They created what seemed like a great storyline but i never really though about what was happening to the main character at the beggining. he wasn't particulary interested in himself by the time i reached the first town. It seemed like several days down the road he didn't care about the death of Gorion. it was all like what happened to me doesn't matter lets help everyone else who seem to need help less than me. That really mucked BG up.

In conclusion i would say that there's aspects of all three which make them stand out in a positive way. Perhaps if F3 combined these positive attributes we would have a game as good as all three put together...

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It's only cheating if you get caught
- Fang_Of_the_BOS@hotmail.com
 
RE: SPOILERS FOR THOSE WHOM HAVEN'T STARTED BG

[font size=1" color="#FF0000]LAST EDITED ON Sep-18-01 AT 06:27PM (GMT)[p]According to millions of fans worldwide, you happen to be wrong. Also, BG has recieved numerous rewards, and stellar reviews in Computer Gaming World, etc

<plus their stroy for each of the towns along the way was great>
In BG each town also has its own story, with its own problems, etc. I'm not saying Fallout is bad, I just enjoy BG series a bit more, especially since Fallout Tactics... I can't say i enjoyed that game a ton, but it does have merit, albeit with a few flaws that are relatively stupid. Ex. making you pay for equipment from the quartermaster. While some could argue that it costs to get the weapon, I also say that BoS currency in FoT, to my knowledge, is unable to be changed into bottlecaps. Fun game, its just repetive, with missions usually consisting of 'go in kill everything then win' Of course, you have to use stealth in some areas, but it boils down to killing everything in sight.

EDIT: No roshambo, the scripts where the cleric stands back healing your party, and the script where the mage stands back hurling fireballs as ogres.

Also: No offense roshambo, but the sniper's rush of hitting an enemy? how??? turn-based! Fallout uses the same kind of mouse that Baldur's gate does, so why does Fallout give a sniper rush, and, say, BG give a Fireball's rush?
 
RE: SPOILERS FOR THOSE WHOM HAVEN'T STARTED BG

[font size=1" color="#FF0000]LAST EDITED ON Sep-18-01 AT 10:39PM (GMT)[p]
>According to millions of fans worldwide, you happen to be wrong. Also, BG has recieved numerous rewards, and stellar reviews in Computer Gaming World, etc

Yes. It's AD&D, and considered the best one to date. It's also got many other factors like a hell of a lot more advertising behind it than PS:T, plus more features that are considered 'trendy' like multiplayer.

Also consider that these gaming magazines and awards are given out by people who haven't played games that needed a GAME to survive instead of relying on eye-candy (try, like over 10 years ago). Most really got into serious gaming about the time when Diablo was released, and so they don't remember the Boxes, nor UA, nor games like Wasteland.

http://www.theunderdogs.org/scratch.php

In short, millions in sales and magazine awards mean precisely dick. I know how it works, particularly when magazines are afraid to print their REAL opinion and review. They generally side with who sells the most for those rewards as well, nevermind the true merit behind the games. Numb

"Sorry Jim, they just paid a wad to be in the middle spread of the magazine, we can't print that about their game."

>
>EDIT: No roshambo, the scripts where
>the cleric stands back healing
>your party, and the script
>where the mage stands back
>hurling fireballs as ogres.

Perhaps I'm using the wrong ones. Which ones would be the right ones?
Perhaps I mistakenly chose the ones under "Wizard". If you could point out the one where the magic-user doesn't flambe himself with a Fireball within range all the time or shoot a lightning bolt in a confined space, I'd be appreciative. It kind of hurts when you're going into a new area and your mage decides a fireball would be the best spell to pop out at the kobolds, hitting the entire party. I still remember once when he killed the whole party like that. I found it oddly amusing, particularly the ineptitude or limitations of the script. It's either that, or nail the space-bar like a crack rat every 5 seconds.

>Also: No offense roshambo, but the
>sniper's rush of hitting an
>enemy? how??? turn-based! Fallout uses
>the same kind of mouse
>that Baldur's gate does, so
>why does Fallout give a
>sniper rush, and, say, BG
>give a Fireball's rush?

Because in Fallout you can do targeted shots to would/cripple/disable your enemy, and you don't even have that option in BG. It's point your character at the enemy, click, unpause, watch them combat it out. *yawn*

In Fallout, you can target the head or eyes of the enemy, watch the effects, or perhaps cripple them in the arms or legs.

A Fireball. I just set a few people on fire in a widely-expanded ring of fire. A Ben Stein "Wow" there. Perhaps if I had the option to shoot an enemy in the leg with an arrow to slow it, or perhaps try a called shot to the head or arm, then it might be a bit more fun. As it stands, I'm just standing there, targeting archers, manually-targeting the mages (because I couldn't even trust them with metal eating utensils), and then put the meat to the front. Then watch in glassy-eyed monotony as it plays itself out like every other combat.

I guess that's what happens when you play games like Fallout, Ja2, and even Gold and Silver Boxes before the others. Kind of spoils you.
 
RE: SPOILERS FOR THOSE WHOM HAVEN'T STARTED BG

FUN WITH LOGIC 101!

Many more people bought Deer Hunter than Baldur's Gate, therefore, Deer Hunter is much better than Baldur's Gate.
 
Mass market.

According to millions of fans worldwide, Britney Spears et al have the best music in the world. Computer games are a mass market and as such obey the same rules as any other.

Reviews in magazines? Publishers have it easy. In the music and movie world, almost every major media publication has reviews and critiques. It's almost impossible to control. In the gaming world, the very few reviews published in the general media (ie newspapers) are usually plagiarised straight from the more specific gaming media. So, control the gaming media and you control the world.

Ever read an exclusive feature/preview of a game? That's a trade off for a good review. And in any multimillion dollar industry, there are always illicit deals going on. Take a look at the state of the industry and it's major corporations. It's the most cut-throat industry I've ever been involved with.

Now let's talk reputations. ADnD is the most well known franchise in the Role Playing world. What does the layman call Pen and Paper RP? Dungeons and Dragons. Everyone knows ADnD and most of the cultural subset that is "Hardcore Gamers" branched from PnP RP backgrounds. So which of them isn't going to be excited about the next big ADnD title.

I bought Baldur's Gate the day it came out because of my many great memories of games like the EOB series, the Krynn series and POR. I was ultimately disappointed though, because despite my expectations, 95% of the game seemed to be combat based, and the combat wasn't that good. I found that most of the time my skill in combat played little part. My character was either good enough to win or they weren't. And if it was borderline I relied on luck. I don't like this system at all because it essentially means I am not actually playing the game, I am only a passenger.

I haven't bought an IE-based game since, but I am seriously contemplating PS:T, not because of reviews or advertising, but on word of mouth from fellow hardcore gamers. Marketing does not a good game make. Remember that.
 
RE: Mass market.

Hell, even paying for advertisements in magazines can yield a good review. PC Gamer is notorious about this. They've never given a bad review for a game that's paid for oodles of advertising pages. You want "Game of the Year" from most magazines? It's easy to get, you just buy it.

I bought Baldur's Gate because I was expecting an RPG with depth, like Fallout was. I played it for several hours, then shelved it. It sucked, there was no depth to it at all.

Stats in BG don't mean shit except when it comes to combat. You have the same dialog no matter how dumb or smart you are. You can get the same amount of henchmen regardless of your charisma. This alone should tell you that the game is combat-only, and hardly a decent RPG.

There really aren't any "thinking" puzzles to the game either. There's not much to solve, just combat. It's just plain hack and slash, and not very good at it either.

You know the main reason it sold millions, IMHO? Because it's so dumbed down and the majority of people out there don't have the brains God gave a goose. The combat is mostly automated and that's about all there is to the game.

At least in Diablo you have to click on something to attack it. In BG, you can get by with moving close to monsters and repeatedly whack that spacebar over and over again until you win.
As long as you have the reflexes to whack a spacebar, you can beat BG. No thinking required!
 
RE:

Roshambo you talk about how ad space buys good reviews, but if I remember Fallout Tactics had oodles of pages, and yet it recieved very few reviews that said it was the best game ever, etc. And since everyone seems to think awards mean nothing, then what about word-of-mouth? Baldur's Gate series is among the most popular and known games. I never said it was flawless, simply that it is not a horrible romp that makes you wish for death. BG was never to my knowledge touted as being a fully interactive game where anything is possible, but as a hack and slash rpg! PS:Fallout is not a game that requires a degree in advanced mathematics to play, nor is BG. I started Fallout without even reading the manual and I was able to figure out everything. Guess what? I completed Fallout in a very short time. Since Fallout 2 is doubtless better than Fallout 1, the original Baldur's Gate therefore should not be compared with Fallout 2. Baldur's Gate 2 is a massive improvement over the original, same as Fallout 2. Saint Proverbius, you obviously do not read PC Gamer that much. Remember a little game called Force Commander. It sucked ass and had ridiculous advertising in it. What did the game get? A LOW REVIEW. Another example : RUNE had tons of ads, and a LOW REVIEW. The theory that ads buys good reviews is obviously a half-baked attempt to state that EVERY game that buys ad space will get good reviews. If word of mouth is so damn popular, why is it most people would rather talk about Black Isle's gem called Baldur's Gate, than Black Isle's sleeper hit Fallout? If Baldur's Gate is so easy to figure out, then would you be able to figure out THACO without reading the manual? How about dual classing?

Apparently this is the wrong kind of website to post about how a non-fallout game could be marginally better than a Fallout game. IT is obvious to me that this web-board has a strong bias against a non fallout game.
 
Just when you thought the straw men could rest in peace...

[font size=1" color="#FF0000]LAST EDITED ON Sep-19-01 AT 08:13PM (GMT)[p]>Roshambo you talk about how ad
>space buys good reviews, but
>if I remember Fallout Tactics
>had oodles of pages, and
>yet it recieved very few
>reviews that said it was
>the best game ever, etc.

On the contrary. Numerous reviews raved about it as soon as it came out. Most of them without a clue about the rest of the series, and most tried to gloss over the bugs.

After word of mouth went around due to too many jaded customers, subsequent reviews were less than favorable. The brown-nosing only kept up when there was a possibility of a sequel or whatever still floating about. More on this kind of thing later.


>And since everyone seems to
>think awards mean nothing, then
>what about word-of-mouth? Baldur's Gate
>series is among the most
>popular and known games.

Yes, many know OF Baldur's Gate, rather than fanboy over it. As a rather detestable and weak-storied excuse for hack-and-slash with combat that makes Diablo's look outright spectacular. Stats don't mean a thing. Hell, your character could be a number of different things and it doesn't matter to the story. As SP pointed out, whether you had 3 or 18 Int or Cha, the dialog was the same. The only difference was for combat and selling.

Again, word of mouth. Many also consider BG to be a weak slashfest and not a CRPG with depth. Which, if I recall correctly, was the meat of the discussion before someone decided that it was about how widespread, how many awards, whatever.

This really has nothing to do with the discussion, because in essence (and you've said it yourself), we're comparing two different things. A slashfest and a CRPG.


>I
>never said it was flawless,
>simply that it is not
>a horrible romp that makes
>you wish for death. BG
>was never to my knowledge
>touted as being a fully
>interactive game where anything is
>possible, but as a hack
>and slash rpg!

Then please define 'CRPG'.

No, it doesn't mean killing things while leveling up.

Oops, forgot that, didn't you?


>PS:Fallout is
>not a game that requires
>a degree in advanced mathematics
>to play, nor is BG.
>I started Fallout without even
>reading the manual and I
>was able to figure out
>everything. Guess what? I completed
>Fallout in a very short
>time.

Let me guess, you just went through it one way, like a full-combat character.

OF COURSE IT WOULD BE SHORT.

Who cares if it could be completed in a short amount of time? I think a boring as hell game that has monotonous combat and drags on FOREVER would be more of a turn-off. Of course, your entire point on how good the game is revolves around how hard it is and how long/short they are.

See, there's a brick wall. Keep hitting it with your bare head until it falls over. There's a challenging and undoubtedly a long-term task that will take a while. Which fits into your definition perfectly of which game is better.

Oh, wait, it didn't have magazine reviews or awards....

Must have those to be a better game, right?

>Since Fallout 2 is
>doubtless better than Fallout 1,
>the original Baldur's Gate therefore
>should not be compared with
>Fallout 2. Baldur's Gate 2
>is a massive improvement over
>the original, same as Fallout
>2.

CRPGs are much more than combat.

As for Fallout and Fallout 2, I consider #1 to be better because it more successfully captures the atmosphere. Of course, you wouldn't know that, being in your mad-dash rush to beat the game and toss it aside.

There's more to the damn game than just combat. No wonder BG appeals to you so much, you're both one-dimensional. Fallout was meant to be played in more than one way.

>Saint Proverbius, you
>obviously do not read PC
>Gamer that much. Remember a
>little game called Force Commander.
>It sucked ass and had
>ridiculous advertising in it. What
>did the game get? A
>LOW REVIEW. Another example
>: RUNE had tons of
>ads, and a LOW REVIEW.
>The theory that ads buys
>good reviews is obviously a
>half-baked attempt to state that
>EVERY game that buys ad
>space will get good reviews.

*sigh*

Here you go again. You only seem to grasp half of the picture.

When a game magazine takes upon a large amount of ads by someone, they also take upon a vested interest as well from the company. Someone plugs through a lot of advertising and is a big-time game producer, the magazine isn't going to likely bite the hand that feeds and run the risk of losing sneak-peeks and previews ahead of others.

Even if someone pumps in a lot of cash into ads, it really matters on if the game company is going to come back and advertise again or give the magazine a bit more juicy insider info.

That's what we've been alluding to, but again, watch for low-flying aircraft.

>If word of mouth is
>so damn popular, why is
>it most people would rather
>talk about Black Isle's gem
>called Baldur's Gate, than Black
>Isle's sleeper hit Fallout? If
>Baldur's Gate is so easy
>to figure out, then would
>you be able to figure
>out THACO without reading the
>manual? How about dual classing?

"Black Isle's sleeper hit Fallout"?

Fallout was being developed before Black Isle even existed. Notice how Black Isle Studio games have their logo and are installed in a common folder with what they develop and help publish? Notice that's what is missing from Fallout's start menu tree? Do you even know who made Fallout? Did you know Fallout was a hit when it was released, likely before you even started gaming? Yes, there was gaming before you slipped that indestructable AOL CD-ROM into your drive and graced us with your presence. Likely before you were even born, too.

Please come back when you know what you're talking about.


>Apparently this is the wrong kind
>of website to post about
>how a non-fallout game could
>be marginally better than a
>Fallout game. IT is obvious
>to me that this web-board
>has a strong bias against
>a non fallout game.

Wrong, kiddo, and so thank you for trolling. I'll cut that straw-man down with a warning. You want to debate, fine, you want to whine, not on MY time.

We do enjoy other games....when they are COMPARABLE. Fallout, Fallout 2, Planescape: Torment, Arcanum. Go back to Sesame Street and play "What do these things have in common?" Then figure out why BG doesn't quite fit in, due to it's incessant combat and how to get anywhere in the game it's repetitive and monotonous combat.

>This is gettin long, i suppose ill sign off for now and wait for an angry reply from a fallout fanatic (which i am, basically, i have all 3 games, and huge amounts of mods)

Wouldn't that be a troll, would it?

Hmmmm....

Sounds like you're the one first getting peeved at people, to the point of being insulting. Also looks like you're one who has to act like a human body-shield for the game, rather than discuss it out. I'll admit Fallout doesn't have anything to make it flashy, trendy, etc. and if you go through it solely like you would Baldur's Gate, it's going to likely be short. Of course, Fallout 1&2, PS:T, and Arcanum offer something more than just combat.

It's called "role-playing".

No, not just stats or deciding with a click on what dies, it's much more involving than that.

Get the picture now?
 
RE: Just when you thought the straw men could rest in peace.

[font size=1" color="#FF0000]LAST EDITED ON Sep-21-01 AT 04:53AM (GMT)[p]>Roshambo you talk about how ad space buys good
>reviews, but if I remember Fallout Tactics had
>oodles of pages, and yet it recieved very few
>reviews that said it was the best game ever, etc.

Well, considering I was the sole news poster for Vault13.net at the time FOT was still being reviewed, I read every damned one of them. I can only remember two bad reviews of the game, out of about fifty or so.

>If Baldur's Gate is so easy to figure out,
> then would you be able to figure out THACO
>without reading the manual?

Please show me where in BG it makes you compute your own THACO.

> How about dual classing?

Yeah, a few extra clicks of the mouse allows you to do this. This is no where near rocket science.
 
After completing Fallout 2, I went and purchased Baldurs Gate because it was another RPG that would hopefully provide hours of gameplay and fun. I think it is far inferior though still a good game. I find BG far too restrictive and travelling around with your character, you feel distant from the world. I don't feel anywhere near the same amount of immersion than I do in Fallout 2.

As far as combat goes, the Fallout series wins by a mile. Swords and magic arrows are no match for the satisfying splatter of guts with a well aimed Magnum round, or a Guass Rifle blast. The Real time combat feature of BG is ok, but you have to pause the game all the time or stand no chance. Also, I find that you have to use Ranged weapons all the time in BG. Sure you can switch to another weapon at close range, but ranged weapons are far better and safer which defeats the object somewhat.

There is a well told story in BG, but somehow it doesn't seem as relevant compared to the Fallout series. You can relate to Fallout in some aspects. The bureaucracy, politics, crime families and racism. All found in the real world. Ultima 7, in my opinion the best RPG ever also tackled contemporary issues in a fantasy setting. It also had an open ended nature. BG is far too linear. And there are very few characters in the game you can just talk to for the sake of talking. Fallout is full of odd characters, and there's some damn good lines. BG is full of olde worlde characters that you only wish you could fry with a Plasma Rifle.

I don't know about BG2, but the Fallout series in my opinion is better. The post apocalyptic setting can if deployed wisely, be a great setting for more games of a similar ilk which appeals to me more.

The one thing BG does have over Fallout is that the game gets harder and it's never a walk in the park. With Fallout you progress quick and efficiently and within a few hours can pretty much tackle any enemy. In BG unless you complete loads of silly quests liking finding Bread for someone for 4000 exp, you struggle to make progress. BG is more challenging, but ultimately less rewarding.
 
That's no fair....

Comparing BG to Ultima 7...

There's just NO competition there.

I mean, a game with advanced dialog and even activity scheduals based upon time of day/character...it all helps to make a world.

And which one came years before the other? Ouch.


Spoiler fun trick below...
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At high noon in U7: Black Gate, wait for British to go to the courtyard. Wait for him to walk under the plaque and click it.

The king is dead, long live the king. ;)
 
RE: That's no fair....

Good old Lord British, how I mocked as I killed him. Except I usually use the Daemon Sword from the add-on to do the deed.

It's a pity that since Ultima 7, no game has really made the effort to create a liveable, breathable gameworld. I'm not sure about U9, but that was apparently rubbish. There's just something about sneaking into someone's house whilst they're asleep, stealing their possessions and legging it when they catch you that really adds an interesting element to the game. NPCs with their own lives and jobs. They're not just faceless no marks, they're people. If Fallout could add that feature, I think it would add another dimension to the proceedings. I mean, imagine travelling to New Reno at midnight and having most of the characters sleeping, whilst the nocturnal party goers make their way to the casinos. Or going to the Bazaar in NCR at 6am and having the stalls boarded up until trading hours. Stuff like that can create a whole new level of immersion. A bitch to code mind, but that's what the programmers are paid for.

It's just a shame that RPG's on the whole have gone several steps forward and yet took a couple back that they're loathe to retrace.
 
RE: That's no fair....

Apparently people have been missing the point of my messages, and no Roshambo I did not speed through Fallout 1 and 2 as a combat freak. Yes, I played through a couple times as one, but I also played through as a charisma boy as well as a thief, and a science/healer a few times.
Why you people can't get the fact that I enjoy Fallout *and* Baldur's Gate so hard to understand defies me. I was talking about Fallout 2 when I said Black Isle.

Forget this board, it seems that I cannot have a semi-intelligent discussion with anyone about how 2 games, perhaps of different catagories, may or may not be more popular than one another.
 
RE: That's no fair....

[font size=1" color="#FF0000]LAST EDITED ON Sep-22-01 AT 02:08PM (GMT)[p]>Apparently people have been missing the
>point of my messages,

What WAS the point of your messages? First we're talking about the qualities of the games, then you seem to go off on a weird-ass tangeant.

>and
>no Roshambo I did not
>speed through Fallout 1 and
>2 as a combat freak.
>Yes, I played through a
>couple times as one, but
>I also played through as
>a charisma boy as well
>as a thief, and a
>science/healer a few times.

It's not how long the road is, it's the journey that matters.

Do you have the same option with Baldur's Gate 1&2?

Nope, didn't think so. So how does "BG22 has more depth/length/story than Fallout 2" if you can only hack through the dame game. Seems pretty one-dimensional in that aspect, no?

Which was our point, and why you can't understand that defies me.

>Why you people can't get the
>fact that I enjoy Fallout
>*and* Baldur's Gate so hard
>to understand defies me.

Odd, didn't sound like that at all. Might want to re-read what you wrote. Of course you can like both, who said different? We're pointing out the merits/flaws of the games.

>I was talking about Fallout 2
>when I said Black Isle.

Thank you for clarifying that. Anything else you'd care to clarify or correct while you're at it?

>
>Forget this board, it seems that
>I cannot have a semi-intelligent
>discussion with anyone about how
>2 games, perhaps of different
>catagories, may or may not
>be more popular than one
>another.

Seriously, you need to go back and take a look at what you wrote.
First, it was merits of the game, then it was supposedly by popularity which game was so good. Which, then, Diablo 2 and Final Fantasy series are the best CRPGs ever, despite having crap for depth and some aspect of nonlinearity. Hey, same logic, right?

You're taking this too damn personal, and if you're going to do that, then it's your fault. Seriously, wah.

And frankly, you're smelling like bait.
 
RE: That's no fair....

I wouldn't bother, Rosh. BG fans have limited potential for intelligence. When faced with the facts, they often pull that, "I'm going to take my toys and go home" approach to getting in the last word because they have nothing to qualify their arguments.
 
RE: That's no fair....

Huh, seems like someone has decided to be a bit, I suppose the term is, racist. So, because I enjoy playing Baldur's Gate, I am an idiot who, and I quote, has a limited potential for intelligence. Wow, I guess you really know your stuff. Especially since I have had among the highest GPA's at my school for a couple years. So Saint, even though I would place BG and Fallout as among my favorite games ever, the fact of the matter is, in my opinion, there aren't too many people who like both of those games, and the people who only like one of the games can't accept that the other has its merits, only that it has flaws. Of course BG has flaws, and SO DOES FALLOUT. Baldur's Gate is fun if you want a story, but also enjoy hack and slash, and Fallout is good for real turn based combat, and an extremely interactive experience.
>they have nothing to qualify their arguments.
Huh, so that means that everything I have said good about Baldur's Gate does not exist.

Roshambo, this post turned weird because one of the things that sets me off is people making unbeleivable misconceptions about things that they may not know much about. Not saying you don't but I know someone posting here doesn't.


I do think I should quit writing now, my knuckles need new bandages : Punching bag punched it until knuckles bled, somehow they did even though I had gloves.

PS: Saint Proverbius, I think you are the one with limited intelligence, since you are the first person to my recollection in this post to turn to blatant mud slinging. And what facts are you talking about?
 
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