Fast travel via.... vertibirds?

[Francis]

I've just been playing through FO2 (again, for the 5th time this month) and I noticed that Dr. Wong has left a comment in his workstation concerning their plans for mass-production of vertibirds within two years. Now I've probably read that a thousand times but I never thought...

Do you think this could happen in FO3? How would it change Fallout? For the worse or the better? For that matter, how will all the Shi tech effect the world of Fallout? Is more tech better or will it damage the atmosphere?

 

[DGT]

Mass Vertibirds, you say?

I'd hope that, were it to be implemented, Beth would have the sense to make their use quite a rarity; rapid travel just changes the world, IMO, too much to make it really feel like Fallout anymore. More likely, though, it'll be either far over-used or ignored completely; personally, I prefer the latter.

Also, their effect on the environment would depend largely on the fuel used; fossil fuels are nearly depleted, fusion would probably be too advanced for even the Brotherhood or the (now late) Enclave, but fission, if sufficient uranium or plutonium could be acquired, would work. With the kind of biotech the Shi apparently have, I think it's possible they could come up with something relatively harmless to the environment. But, hell, I don't know. What do you guys think?

P.S.: It also seems that there's not much of an "environment" to damage, what with the global nuclear war and all.

 

[Tagaziel]

Actually, San Francisco is way out of the Fallout canon. Mass production of Vertibirds is impossible, in part due to the fact, that they require engines, armor plating, flight navigation and most importantly, fuel.

 

[Sander]

I've just been playing through FO2 (again, for the 5th time this month) and I noticed that Dr. Wong has left a comment in his workstation concerning their plans for mass-production of vertibirds within two years. Now I've probably read that a thousand times but I never thought...

Do you think this could happen in FO3?

Erm, no. The Enclave has been destroyed, so they're not there to build Vertibirds.

Besides that, the Shi are completely unfitting of the Fallout universe. I'd rather not see them at all, mainly because they were far too high-tech and completely silly.

How would it change Fallout? For the worse or the better? For that matter, how will all the Shi tech effect the world of Fallout? Is more tech better or will it damage the atmosphere?

No, no it won't.
The atmosphere has been damaged by the nuclear war, but a few extra means of transportation in a small part of California won't really matter.

 

[SuAside]

euhm he's probably talking of ambience Sander, not the troposphere or ozonlayer or whatever you're talking about.

and New Reno & San Fran were brainfarts.

 

[Francis]

No, no it won't.
The atmosphere has been damaged by the nuclear war, but a few extra means of transportation in a small part of California won't really matter.

Poor choice of words on my side, I suppose. I meant the overall feel of the game, not damages to the environment in the game.

 

[Sander]

Poor choice of words on my side, I suppose. I meant the overall feel of the game, not damages to the environment in the game.

Then yes, yes it will damage the atmosphere. Vertibirds aren't necessarily out of place in a fifties sci-fi world, but proliferated use of vertibirds in a post-apocalyptic use would be disastrous for the post-apocalyptic feel.

 

[Lumpy]

Perhaps Fallout 3 should happen around the time of F1 or 2? There's only so much Fallout's universe can stay post-apocalyptic. Fallout 2 already had a republic with 300.000 citizens. Since another war is unlikely at the moment, civilization will be rebuilt in a couple hundreds of years.

 

[PhredBean]

Perhaps Fallout 3 should happen around the time of F1 or 2? There's only so much Fallout's universe can stay post-apocalyptic. Fallout 2 already had a republic with 300.000 citizens. Since another war is unlikely at the moment, civilization will be rebuilt in a couple hundreds of years.

Unlikely? None of the "civilizations" in Fallout2 could get along. Consittering the high-mindedness of both VaultCity and NCR either could easily start storming the wastes and subjugating any pockets of humanity and justify it completely in their minds.

The impression I got from Fallout2 was that a decent sized clash was imminent.

 

[Vox]

AND if every jerk in FO3 would have a vertibird, it wouldn't be post apoXaklipptik enough.

Fallout is not about civilisation. Civilisation is about Civilisation.

Fallout is about a fucked up retro world with funny ray-d-a-shun and WASTELAND and rotting retro cars.



Clean your appartments and ignore this thread.

OR:

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\/ \/ \/

 

[Francis]

Clean your appartments and ignore this thread.

OR:

|| || ||
\/ \/ \/

It's not something I'd want myself, mind you. I was just playing the game and there it was, and I wondered. I just hope I didn't inspire anything.

 

[brax5]

I would like to see where the BOS went with the vertiplans and all , yes i reqalize the enclave are gone but BOS are all up in techs ass and I wouldnt be too pissed if they had one and it was use by the player like once in the game but I couldnot ney will not live with more than one vertibird in FO3

 

[Lumpy]

Perhaps Fallout 3 should happen around the time of F1 or 2? There's only so much Fallout's universe can stay post-apocalyptic. Fallout 2 already had a republic with 300.000 citizens. Since another war is unlikely at the moment, civilization will be rebuilt in a couple hundreds of years.

Unlikely? None of the "civilizations" in Fallout2 could get along. Consittering the high-mindedness of both VaultCity and NCR either could easily start storming the wastes and subjugating any pockets of humanity and justify it completely in their minds.

The impression I got from Fallout2 was that a decent sized clash was imminent.

Another nuclear war, I meant. One that would destroy civilization once again. Since nobody has nuclear tech, and they have experienced it's dangers, it's quite certain that such a war won't happen for a long time.

 

[Lord 342]

It is my personal interperitation that "mass production" means that there will be more than a flying prototype. San Fran might be able to whip up a couple of "line produciton" vertibirds like the Enclave did, but the Enclave had them and you didn't see too awful many of 'em even in Fallout 2, did you? If they actually show up in the game, I think they should perhaps just be shown once or twice, and then, near the climax, the player might get the chance to ride or even pilot one. But they certainly shouln't be the wasteland's equivilent of the Chevrolet. Speaking of which there should be a couple more cars. Regardless of weather or not you can drive every one, it was decidedly odd in Fallout 2 that you had the only working car in the world. Others were implied but not seen.

 

[Sander]

It is my personal interperitation that "mass production" means that there will be more than a flying prototype. San Fran might be able to whip up a couple of "line produciton" vertibirds like the Enclave did, but the Enclave had them and you didn't see too awful many of 'em even in Fallout 2, did you? If they actually show up in the game, I think they should perhaps just be shown once or twice, and then, near the climax, the player might get the chance to ride or even pilot one. But they certainly shouln't be the wasteland's equivilent of the Chevrolet. Speaking of which there should be a couple more cars. Regardless of weather or not you can drive every one, it was decidedly odd in Fallout 2 that you had the only working car in the world. Others were implied but not seen.

Well, it may have been implied in some places, it wasn't as uniformly implied as you make it seem. In New Reno, for instance, you see someone say 'Is that a CAR?', while at the same time there seems to be a car-theft and rebuilding crew busy in the area, implying that cars are quite common. At the same time, however, caravans don't make use of cars, which is quite idiotic if cars are available.

So Fallout 2 is ambiguous about it.
However, if you look at the setting (a desolate, depressing wasteland), fleets of cars just don't fit. The only cars that you could drive would be the somewhat experimental fusion cell-powered ones, and fusion cells are quite hard to come by. So most people just couldn't have a car and use it. Those that may
Not to mention that most any car not cleaned and maintained would be unusable by the time that Fallout happens.

 

[Vox]

In New Reno, for instance, you see someone say 'Is that a CAR?

Well... maybe the guy asking u if that what u have is a CAR got used to the tuned up stuff from the chop shop and he just wanted to insult the rusty heap of your char. 8)

 

[zioburosky13]

It would be possible to mass produce vertibird. The real problem is how to get the material (steel plate, engine, pilot ) especially in the WASTE LAND.

 

[Lord 342]

It is my personal interperitation that "mass production" means that there will be more than a flying prototype. San Fran might be able to whip up a couple of "line produciton" vertibirds like the Enclave did, but the Enclave had them and you didn't see too awful many of 'em even in Fallout 2, did you? If they actually show up in the game, I think they should perhaps just be shown once or twice, and then, near the climax, the player might get the chance to ride or even pilot one. But they certainly shouln't be the wasteland's equivilent of the Chevrolet. Speaking of which there should be a couple more cars. Regardless of weather or not you can drive every one, it was decidedly odd in Fallout 2 that you had the only working car in the world. Others were implied but not seen.

Well, it may have been implied in some places, it wasn't as uniformly implied as you make it seem. In New Reno, for instance, you see someone say 'Is that a CAR?', while at the same time there seems to be a car-theft and rebuilding crew busy in the area, implying that cars are quite common. At the same time, however, caravans don't make use of cars, which is quite idiotic if cars are available.

So Fallout 2 is ambiguous about it.
However, if you look at the setting (a desolate, depressing wasteland), fleets of cars just don't fit. The only cars that you could drive would be the somewhat experimental fusion cell-powered ones, and fusion cells are quite hard to come by. So most people just couldn't have a car and use it. Those that may
Not to mention that most any car not cleaned and maintained would be unusable by the time that Fallout happens.

Hmm. Caravans didn't use cars maybe because they couldn't afford enough cars to make it work, or there just weren't enough cars. Let's assume that the Fusion-cell powered cars of the Fallout universe are similar to our cars in that they are most efficient with their fuel when traveling about 60 MPH. Maybe you can't always make that speed, but even cross-country you can average probably 30 or even 40. But that assumes you have enough cars to make your run using entirely cars, which is unlikely. Throw in just one Brahmin cart, which probably can't move faster than 5 MPH, and the effiecieny of the cars is in the toilet pan. And all this assumes that that many suitable cars are around to be purchased, and that the Caravanners can gaurd them. You don't haul much in a Corvette or an MG; and you don't get to far too fast jacking a Brahmin cart, but all it takes is one lucky punk who found a Master Key in a locksmith's tools or can otherwise subvert a car's security system, and the Caravanners are out a $10,000+ investment plus whatever profit it made.

But John Bishop clearly wanted to buy a car; implying that a medium-level crime lord could afford to maintain one. The existance of the Chop Shop imlied that cars were, while not common, at least known.

 

[Sander]

Hmm. Caravans didn't use cars maybe because they couldn't afford enough cars to make it work, or there just weren't enough cars. Let's assume that the Fusion-cell powered cars of the Fallout universe are similar to our cars in that they are most efficient with their fuel when traveling about 60 MPH. Maybe you can't always make that speed, but even cross-country you can average probably 30 or even 40. But that assumes you have enough cars to make your run using entirely cars, which is unlikely. Throw in just one Brahmin cart, which probably can't move faster than 5 MPH, and the effiecieny of the cars is in the toilet pan. And all this assumes that that many suitable cars are around to be purchased, and that the Caravanners can gaurd them. You don't haul much in a Corvette or an MG; and you don't get to far too fast jacking a Brahmin cart, but all it takes is one lucky punk who found a Master Key in a locksmith's tools or can otherwise subvert a car's security system, and the Caravanners are out a $10,000+ investment plus whatever profit it made.

Your logic is flawed.
A car is about 8 times faster than moving by foot (IIRC). This means that it's really fast to get somewhere, and you need a lot fewer guards because of the speed of the car.
Then there's the fact that you can stow a shitload of stuff in the trunk, and you can also attach a cart. Suppose then that this is about a quarter of what a normal caravan carries.

Now, suppose an upgraded car is about $1,000 (about the price of the upgraded car the chop shop asks). The fuel price per four trips would be about $1200 I believe.
However, in the time a caravan can do one delivery, you can make eight, with hence a total of double the freight. At a much higher speed, this will probably fetch a higher price as well. You'll also only need a quarter of the guards. At about $800 per guard, and 3 guards, this makes $2400
Total start-up cost: $1000
Cost per four trips: $3600

Now, to run a normal caravan, you need to pay 12 guards, at $800 a pop. This makes for $9,600. And because you make (more than) double the money on a car caravan (in the same amount of time), the car caravan is a lot more profitable.

But John Bishop clearly wanted to buy a car; implying that a medium-level crime lord could afford to maintain one. The existance of the Chop Shop imlied that cars were, while not common, at least known.

Yes, as I said, the game was quite ambiguous about it.
MCA commented once about NCR's 'fleet of cars', which is a pretty retarded thing for a depressing post-apocalyptic setting. But, as I said, several people can't believe that cars exist. And yet there is a chop shop that can pay about 7 employees on fixing cars for 1000 or so per car. That'd imply there's quite a few cars around.
Besides, Bishop was a pretty high-level crime lord.

 

[PhredBean]

The chop shop is another FO2 anomaly due to a badly planned location. Keep in mind it is part of New Reno, and like much of the rest of that zone, it doesn't fit the setting.