Final Fantasy VII Remake

[Risewild]

I just saw the official trailer of FF7 Remake... And I'm not impressed...

They changed a Turn-Based/Active Time Battle RPG into an action-RPG . Voice acting also doesn't seem very good.
And seems like they'll release the "game" in three parts too, just like FF13, FF13-2 and FF13-Lightning Returns .



Gaming these days sucks... They destroy everything I ever liked.

 

[Norzan]

The only thing i liked in Final Fantasy 7 was the gameplay and it's being changed for action bullshit. So much for being a remake.

And i see people claim "TuRn BaSeD iS DaTeD hurr durr" bullshit to justify the complete change of gameplay. Fuck that, turn based isn't dated and it will never be. It has a purpose from a design point, it wasn't made because you couldn't do better with the technology at the time.

 

[SquidWard]

Isn't Square Enix known for deviating from turn based games? Like they think the games won't sell now or something?

And hell no, turn based isn't dated. Open world isn't new. Quest logs and tracking isn't a new technology. And so on. Most of this stuff is decisions made about design not technical limitations. The technical limitations of yore were less relevant than people think. I bet you some people out there couldn't discern a game from 2002 from a game in 1997 based on their understanding of "technical limitations." Morrowind didn't get chance to hit, no fast travel on a whim, and a quest log that didn't magically reorganize its pages due to technical limitations. If it did, I must be an idiot then, which is fine.

 

[Norzan]

Given that turn based games like Bravely Default and Octopath Traveler have been selling well, doing turn based doesn't mean you'll sell poorly. It's just a meme at this point to say that turn based is dated and it will sell badly.

It's same shit with fixed camera angles, like in the Resident Evil games before 4. It wasn't a technical limitation at that time, they could have done full 3D movement like in Ocarina of Time. The fixed camera angles were deliberate and not a technical limitation.

 

[SquidWard]

So many people say that RE2 had fixed cameras due to limitations. Couldn't they have just scaled certain things in the game back and gone with a more full 3D view if they really wanted to? Or is there an actual deal with the engine and the PS1 combined? The cameras seemed to have been a service to the games more than a hindrance.

I don't think anything due to an actual design decision is doomed to fail in gaming. Most things will work when done properly and made fun. Open worlds and linear stories can be terrible or wonderful depending how well they're done. Same thing with turn based combat versus a shooter game. Both can be done very well.

RTwP should be eradicated and replaced with turn based though .

 

[Norzan]

There's also people saying that updating the graphics, fixing the problems of the original and adding new things is just a remaster. Do people even know what the fuck a remake is? That's what a remake is. It fixes the problems of the original, adds new things and updates the graphics.

The remake of Resident Evil 1 is lauded as probably the best remake, because it updated the original while keeping its core. When you change the core to something else, in the example of FF 7 changing from active time battle to an action game, it's a whole new game. It's basically a different game gameplay wise, just with the same story.


This is just another notch on Square Enix seemingly disdain for turn based games. Sure, they have published turn based games in recent years but when it comes to Final Fantasy, they have clearly some contempt for turn based gameplay or are just afraid to use it. Because it hasn't been turn based since 10, that was like 17 years ago.


And then there's the fact the game is episodic. Besides pretty much removing the thing i liked the most about the original, they are doing one of the things i dislike the most. Episodic formats works on games like the Telltale Games because they are mostly story driven with not much gameplay. FF 7 is gonna be a game heavy on gameplay and making it episodic is absolutely moronic and disruptive. Imagining beating whatever boss at the end of the episode, only for the game to say next episode coming soon and buy the next episode if you want to play more.

 

[Risewild]

Pillars of Eternity 2 just got an official patch to add a turn-based combat mode. Many players rejoice about it.

This is just one example of how turn-based is not outdated and that there is market for it.

Recent Indie games, like ATOM RPG, Vigilantes, Mutant Year Zero: Road to Eden, and many other games sold quite well (for indie games) and reviews are great. They are all turn-based games.

You can get ATOM RPG, Vigilantes, Mutant Year Zero: Road to Eden here:
ATOM RPG on Steam
ATOM RPG on GOG.com
Vigilantes on Steam
Mutant Year Zero: Road to Eden on Steam
Mutant Year Zero: Road to Eden on GOG.com

And of course it's a design choice, not limitations. If someone tells me it's because of limitations with a straight face, I will have to ask them how would they have a game like Into the Breach without it being turn based?
Into the Breach on Steam
Into the Breach on GOG.com

Also all the Civilization games (and all the other 4X games too) or X-Com games, how would they play if they weren't turn-based? These two are popular game series since the early 90's and they are still popular today.

Persona and Pokemon are also turn-based games that are extremely popular.

And let's not even enter the realm of Card and Tabletop simulation computer games... How in the world could anyone play games like Magic the Gathering or Gwent in real time...



Since I'm on a roll, here are a few other turn-based games that seem fairly decent (have good reviews) released last or this year:
Wargroove on Steam
Wargroove on GOG.com (apparently, it will be on GOG soon)
-
Ash of Gods: Redemption on Steam
Ash of Gods: Redemption on GOG.com
-
Fell Seal: Arbiter's Mark on Steam
Fell Seal: Arbiter's Mark on GOG.com
-
Himeko Sutori on Steam (still early access and gets updates regularly)

And the list can go on and on. There are hundreds of turn-based games released since the start of last year until now. And that is only on Steam (my Steam search showed 26 pages of 25 results each page for turn-based games released since January 2018).


I think turn-based games are bashed by the same type of people that used to bash Dungeons and Dragons in the 70's and 80's. Turn-based is more technical and requires more strategy, it requires thinking and planning ahead, usually several turns in advance (just like chess, another game bashed by the same type of people).
That is also why today, gaming companies call their games RPGs when they are just shooters or action games with some level up. Because many gamers do not want to have to think when they play a game, they want quick action.
Just like the old jocks would laugh at RPGs 30 and 40 years ago, also many gamers now laugh at turn-based games, because they can't see the appeal of it, and many times, they don't get how "to play" the games. So they just call it outdated.

 

[Norzan]

People are also claiming that the game needs to ditch the ATB for action gameplay to make more money. These people forget that Pokemon sells millions upon millions with each game and it's turned based. And Final Fantasy is just as popular as Pokemon.

If anything, the switch to action combat in a oversaturated market filled with action combat games is kind of a bad idea.

The funny part of all of this is that they announced the remake 4 years ago and so far have only shown footage from the first section of the game. By the time the last episode is released, i'm gonna be dead.

 

[CT Phipps]

Awesome! I'm so glad they ditched turn based play!

I can't wait to play this for the first time!

 

[CerberusGate]

I'm interested in seeing what Squenix does with 7's story and what they solidify as canon. Aside from that, I probably would not buy it until all the parts are out.

They changed a Turn-Based/Active Time Battle RPG into an action-RPG

Actually, it has been announced for quite a bit that the game will be playing more like FFXV and Kingdom Hearts. Square keeps thinking it has to innovate by bringing in new gameplay so the change isn't unexpected. It isn't welcome either at times but whatever, I can't do anything about that.

Hoping more of the latter for the game as XV's gameplay isn't that good while KH's peaked with 2: Final Mix.

 

[R.Graves]

Time Battle RPG into an action-RPG

Eh literally why not. No point in making literally the same game again.

"game" in three parts too, just like FF13, FF13-2 and FF13-Lightning Returns

Actually it's worse than that. FF13 was intended as a standalone game. Then they made a sequel. But the sequel ended on a cliffhanger so a third entry happened. However I think FFVII is meant to be released more like a tell tale series. Although I heard the went back on that.

Awesome! I'm so glad they ditched turn based play!

I can't wait to play this for the first time!

Lol no. Seriously no.

Not about the turn based thing but about the "play this for the first time comment"

You'll be playing the remake for the first time not final fantasy 7 proper. They'll be two fundamentally different games. So treating like the same game is just silly.

 

[CerberusGate]

Although I heard the went back on that

Apparently more news about it in June (per the trailer) so I'm guessing that E3 is gonna get some actual info on FF7: Remake.

Most likely that will be Sony's big trailer for E3.

EDIT: @CT Phipps You ought to try to finish FF7, if you haven't, before the Remake comes out. Perspective would make the Remake's playthrough more interesting.

 

[Norzan]

Eh literally why not. No point in making literally the same game again.

Keeping the same gameplay is not literally making the same game again. They could have easily improved the gameplay of the original, but decided to ditch it for some reason.

And honestly, remakes are meant to be an updated version of the original. That's how they have been since their inception. And changing the gameplay entirely goes completely against that. I mean, the REmake is easily one of the best remakes and the gameplay of the original and the remake are nigh similar. But doesn't change the fact that they are different experiences while having almost the same gameplay. Don't see why this remake can't do the same.

What if Fallout 1 got a remake which was just a FPS like the 3D games? I bet some here would get pissed off like the people getting pissed at the gameplay change of the FF 7 remake. It's all about perspective.

But to be honest, given the bullshit episodic nature and how slow development has been, probably will never bother with this game.

Awesome! I'm so glad they ditched turn based play!

I still see you are wrong about everything when it comes to games.

 

[R.Graves]

mean, the REmake is easily one of the best remakes and the gameplay of the original and the remake are nigh similar.

The original REmake also straight up made the original obsolete. And that's just... Kinda sad. Meanwhile REmake 2, against all odds, managed to translate classic survival horror sensabillities to 3rd person. It's a whole new game and thus you'll always have reason to go back to the classic. Of course it's a case by case basis but in general I think a ground up rethinking is a much better and more interesting approach to remakes.

What if Fallout 1 got a remake which was just a FPS like the 3D games?

I think it could be interesting. The original will always be there. Worst case scenario Ill just keep playing the original release.

But to be honest, given the bullshit episodic nature

Honestly this is the only thing ive seen that I don't like about this remake.

 

[SquidWard]

And Final Fantasy is just as popular as Pokemon.

That reminds me, Pokemon is the second biggest selling video game franchise in existence and its main games are all turn based. The other ones I can think of are the Trading Card Game (still turn based) and Pinball.

That's kinda wild to take on a mindset that turn based games won't sell if the second biggest selling franchise literally uses turns in a majority of its titles.

 

[Norzan]

Honestly, the thing that is bothering me here the most is the use of the word "remake". By completely ditching the active time battle system for action, it's now a reimagining and not actual remake. And no, the remake of Resident Evil 2 is not a remake, it's a reimagining. Even Capcom started to call it as such in previews and that's the right word for it.

Since their inception, at least for games, remakes have always kept the original gameplay while making changes to it and adding new content. The Pokemon remakes, the Metroid remakes, the Final Fantasy remakes, and many others. All of these didn't changed genres like this game is doing.

And the best part: remakes don't make the original obsolete. I can still go back to the original Resident Evil and have a different experience than the remake, because there are stuff i can do in the remake that i can't in the original. The original doesn't have Crimson Heads for starters and that added a new dynamic to the remake. The original having less than the remake can lead to a different experience.

So, the supposed remake of Final Fantasy 7 could have been a different experience, while having the Active Time Battle. But it didn't, which is just dissapointing.

 

[Oracle]

Classic FF7 mod(s) make it like an unofficial remaster.

 

[Norzan]

The fact that the supposed remake of FF 7 that keeps the active time battle system is a fucking mobile gacha game is pouring more salt into the wound.

I don't want current Square Enix making anything with FF 6, leave it alone. I don't care if i still have the original, seeing one of my favorite game in the series being made into a "remake" with action combat shit or a mobile gacha bullshit (or both like in this case of FF7) is heartbreaking.

 

[Oracle]

Yea wish theh would keep "Ever Crisis" in the same format af FFVX pocket
but they have to go the gacha route, and man, they gonna make money from it...