I was skimming the Fallout Bible, looking for imformation to use in the mod I'm working on, and as I was rereading the sections on the Glow something hit me. Zax is in the Glow. Zax is a big ass computer. But the Glow was hit by nuke, a direct hit. Nuclear explosions create massive EMP blasts. EMP destroys electronics. So how di Zax survive? And what about the terminals on the first three floors, and the elevators, too? I can be persuaded that there was shielding between floors, and in walls and stuff, but enough to protect from a direct hit? Doubtful. Anyone else care to share an opinion?
Glow Question
- Thread starter Talisien
- Start date
Elevators are more "electric" than "electronic". Electronics are fine circuitry that will pop when the voltage potential creates amperage sufficient to overload and pop components. Elevators don't have fine components like that.
An EMP pulse would likely just be absorbed by the elevator's motor, which would shunt off the pulse into micro-pulses as the motor winds act like a miniaturized capacitor set, the micro-pulses going back and forth between the winds in a brief simulation of AC circuitry at about 50kV/m in an eyeblink. Keycard readers and the like, if based upon clunky 50's technology, would likely be more immune to that effect than a vacuum tube circuit. They were probably punch-card keycards, I don't recall at the moment.
Now, as for why Zax was unaffected, it's got a thickness of steel between the crater, the power generators, and Zax itself. In other words, the sheet of metal that comprised the floor made one hell of a Faraday Cage. EMP is then shunted to earth ground and rendered ineffective.
The top terminals also have me curious, but since it's a "holy" site for the BoS, it might stand to reason that they managed to repair the one terminal into working order, or it might have been spared much of the EMP as the blast came from above and there are layers of metal for more Faraday Cage operation.
An EMP pulse would likely just be absorbed by the elevator's motor, which would shunt off the pulse into micro-pulses as the motor winds act like a miniaturized capacitor set, the micro-pulses going back and forth between the winds in a brief simulation of AC circuitry at about 50kV/m in an eyeblink. Keycard readers and the like, if based upon clunky 50's technology, would likely be more immune to that effect than a vacuum tube circuit. They were probably punch-card keycards, I don't recall at the moment.
Now, as for why Zax was unaffected, it's got a thickness of steel between the crater, the power generators, and Zax itself. In other words, the sheet of metal that comprised the floor made one hell of a Faraday Cage. EMP is then shunted to earth ground and rendered ineffective.
The top terminals also have me curious, but since it's a "holy" site for the BoS, it might stand to reason that they managed to repair the one terminal into working order, or it might have been spared much of the EMP as the blast came from above and there are layers of metal for more Faraday Cage operation.
EMP can relatively easily be shielded, direct hit or not, it makes no difference.
also, if a device has no electric current, isn't it supposed to be immune to EMP? if a terminal would've been shut down at the time of the hit, it could survive. (although i'm not sure if that's very scientific)
Roshambo said:
also, if a device has no electric current, isn't it supposed to be immune to EMP? if a terminal would've been shut down at the time of the hit, it could survive. (although i'm not sure if that's very scientific)
Nope, dormant circuitry can still pick up the power, much like how aiming a radar feedhorn into a building at night can uh...be illuminating, with fluorescent lights. The power, at the right levels, can make the lights look as if they are on by feeding power through the gas tubes.
A 50kv/m pulse is more than capable of CREATING a current in unpowered equipment, and often a really bad, un-engineered-for way. However, if the device is on and doing some function, it might corrupt some data or have another unintended effect instead of simply frying the electronic components. But data loss wouldn't matter much, as any magnetic media is similarly toast or "blanked".
The best EMP shielding for small devices is a simple wrap in aluminum foil. That's it. The pulse will wash over it, find no voltage or amperage potentials to abuse, and leave the item unscathed.
A 50kv/m pulse is more than capable of CREATING a current in unpowered equipment, and often a really bad, un-engineered-for way. However, if the device is on and doing some function, it might corrupt some data or have another unintended effect instead of simply frying the electronic components. But data loss wouldn't matter much, as any magnetic media is similarly toast or "blanked".
The best EMP shielding for small devices is a simple wrap in aluminum foil. That's it. The pulse will wash over it, find no voltage or amperage potentials to abuse, and leave the item unscathed.
Roshambo said:
Actually, if I remember right, the only thing based in 50's tech was the look. I'd hate to think that by 2077 we were still using a punch card system in what is supposed to be one of the most advanced scientific labs of the day.
And Roshambo said:
Of course, you have to remember that Zax was supposed to be linked to all of the terminals in the West Tek facility. As we should all know, electricity loves to travel through wiring, which should have transmitted the power surge to Zax, if not the EMP blast itself. I would think that even with surge protection, the huge amount of voltage created by the EMP would burn right past it. Sot of like the power surge that shut down most of the northeastern US and parts of Canada a few years ago. There were all sorts of things that went BOOM! from that, some of them quite well protected.
Roshambo also said:
That might explain the first floor's terminal, but what about the second? The hole from the nuke goes right through the first floor and into the second. (And maybe the third, I don't quite remember at the moment, and am too lazy to look it up right now, LOL.)
I have to say, though, you seem to have studied quite a bit about electricity and electronics. I'm impressed.
Actually, if I remember right, the only thing based in 50's tech was the look. I'd hate to think that by 2077 we were still using a punch card system in what is supposed to be one of the most advanced scientific labs of the day.
And Roshambo said:
Of course, you have to remember that Zax was supposed to be linked to all of the terminals in the West Tek facility. As we should all know, electricity loves to travel through wiring, which should have transmitted the power surge to Zax, if not the EMP blast itself. I would think that even with surge protection, the huge amount of voltage created by the EMP would burn right past it. Sot of like the power surge that shut down most of the northeastern US and parts of Canada a few years ago. There were all sorts of things that went BOOM! from that, some of them quite well protected.
Roshambo also said:
That might explain the first floor's terminal, but what about the second? The hole from the nuke goes right through the first floor and into the second. (And maybe the third, I don't quite remember at the moment, and am too lazy to look it up right now, LOL.)
I have to say, though, you seem to have studied quite a bit about electricity and electronics. I'm impressed.
Wrong. The technology was fifties vacuum tubes and punch cards as well. Just look at the Pipboy screen.Talisien said:
Talisien said:
I believe in that case, they would use in-line expulsion fuses, to both catch the surge and also act as a void for any potential arcs. 50kV/m surges are nasty, but they can be handled.
Zax is a mainframe on a military installation, and if it was intended to be nuke-proof, then they would have installed some kind of break for the BLACK/RED security conventions.
The thing about an EMP pulse is that it's very straight line in regards to how the effects travel, impeded by certain material or again, Faraday Cages. If it was a surface burst, then even the first level's terminal is fairly covered, as the angle wouldn't project the EMP directly at the terminal. The blast effects don't suggest a subterranean or bunker-buster detonation, but instead a really strong bomb as per the Fallout canon.
Plus, the terminal's frame itself could act as a Faraday Cage, as the monitor would be relatively unscathed. It is how some of the terminals in the 70's and 80's were constructed in regards to the Cold War, but were already envisioned as necessary from Nevada Test Site results.
Electronics engineer from the US Navy, aye.
They're both Navy, Seabees are simply the construction workers. "Seabee" is simply a phonetic derivative of their rate initials, "CB".
CB = Construction Battalion
I was aboard ship, my training including EMP, Radar, Communications, Micro-Miniature, logic gate engineering, and a few other more conventional engineering electronics crap.
CB = Construction Battalion
I was aboard ship, my training including EMP, Radar, Communications, Micro-Miniature, logic gate engineering, and a few other more conventional engineering electronics crap.
Good choice. My little brother is an ET, they just sent him to Maine to train on a new class of ship. He turned down nuclear, and now they want him and the other ET's on the ship to make their new slanted comm mast work instead. Apparently, he says they don't grasp the fact that radar doesn't work right inside a mast slanted at a 45 degree angle. Military intelligence at work, in more than one sense of the word, LOL. At least he didn't get the other new ship- that one's going to be towed out and shot to hell, all hands aboard, to test the damage control systems. Now THAT's a shit duty post, huh? I'd rather have been in WEst Tek when the bomb hit- at least it would have been over quick, LOL.
zioburosky13
Vault Senior Citizen
An enginner and programmer..WoW...
The talk about EMP makes me wondering if Skynet (Terminator, not Fallout) wraps itself with giant sheet of alumminium foil when nuking humans
. I mean, logically, the EMP pulse should be able to fry most of the electronic parts right?
The talk about EMP makes me wondering if Skynet (Terminator, not Fallout) wraps itself with giant sheet of alumminium foil when nuking humans
. I mean, logically, the EMP pulse should be able to fry most of the electronic parts right?Actually, in Terminator 3 they showed that Skynet was a computer virus inhabiting the internet, so I'd imagine that it could simply move through the net to a different area, then come back later. I don't think that it had an actual "body" unti after the nuking was done.
Actually, skynet was that big assed mainframe computer there in the military base. It wasnt a virus, it was its self awareness(Possibly not a word) that had spread over the net. And the military base it was stored was probably emp shielded as well as probably having skynets main computer core deep below ground.
in FO: skynet is a fixed mainframe (containing an AI construct) that can be exported to a cyberbrain.
in Terminator: skynet is originally a computerprogram (AI construct) contained inside an army mainframe, but is then released onto the internet & conquers the world by taking command of (nearly) all computers around the globe.
in Terminator: skynet is originally a computerprogram (AI construct) contained inside an army mainframe, but is then released onto the internet & conquers the world by taking command of (nearly) all computers around the globe.
Yes! That's what I had been trying to say, but 36 hours without sleep dulls the old brain functions a bit. Gawd, the hospitals in this area are AWFULLY slow. Don't ever use any of the hospitals in Ashtabula County, Ohio, USA, unless you have absolutely no other options. And maybe not even then, because they just Life Flight you out to Cleveland anyway, just as soon as a chopper can get there.
To continue on the EMP topic.... Isn't it so that Zaxx (or the main computer) was already damaged when you get to the Glow, perhaps the blast did do something to him and another funny thing is the fact that the holodisks in the Glow are in a perfect state aswell. They too should have been damaged by that blast.
One last thing, why do people always think that the fallout (not the game but the radioactive stuff) is green and glowing? It's the same thing with anything wich has been affected by nuclear waste, even the waste itself! This is all not true, Plutonium and Uranium (wich is mostly used at nuclear reactions) is just a dull metal colour, nothing is glowing (only when you split the core, then it becomes blue). Anyway, i think Zaxx did "feel" something from the blast, but wasn't permanently damaged.
(Ï'll see you again next week for the next chemistry lesson
)
One last thing, why do people always think that the fallout (not the game but the radioactive stuff) is green and glowing? It's the same thing with anything wich has been affected by nuclear waste, even the waste itself! This is all not true, Plutonium and Uranium (wich is mostly used at nuclear reactions) is just a dull metal colour, nothing is glowing (only when you split the core, then it becomes blue). Anyway, i think Zaxx did "feel" something from the blast, but wasn't permanently damaged.
(Ï'll see you again next week for the next chemistry lesson
)
nt much is mentioned about holodisk technology, so it's pretty hard to conclude if it would survive or not.
as for the waste thing? i'm guessing popular culture had something to do with it. movies, comics, that kinda stuff. dull metallic stuff doesnt sell.
as for the waste thing? i'm guessing popular culture had something to do with it. movies, comics, that kinda stuff. dull metallic stuff doesnt sell.
Holodisk/tape technology is actually extant (but little known) technology developed by RCA as a home video format and surprisingly, envisioned by the Fallout Devs without them knowing a lick of info about RCA's device.
http://www.cedmagic.com/history/holotape.html
and also Motorola sent another system to market:
http://www.labguysworld.com/Motorola_EVR.htm
It's a perfectly viable non-magnetic storage medium and wouldn't have been affected by EMP by virture of being optical. The terminals themselves, I don't believe, had any local storage anyway. If they did it always seemed to be strictly Holotape handlers, and as I said Holotapes can survive the EMP as long as they don't melt .
I was going to mention the bit about the huge steel cases of the computer terminals being effective faraday cages but Rosh beat me to it. Not to mention it all being mil-spec equipment and probably shielded and grounded beyond belief deliberately.
Combine that with the natural resistance of a vacuum-tube circuit to interferance (operating at 20-50 kV helps to "shrug off" little things like EMP ) and you've got a recipe for survival. A few odd systems errors at most; Perhaps the main generators are off line due to a pulse down the line? Faulty failsafe or some such let it slip through?
http://www.cedmagic.com/history/holotape.html
and also Motorola sent another system to market:
http://www.labguysworld.com/Motorola_EVR.htm
It's a perfectly viable non-magnetic storage medium and wouldn't have been affected by EMP by virture of being optical. The terminals themselves, I don't believe, had any local storage anyway. If they did it always seemed to be strictly Holotape handlers, and as I said Holotapes can survive the EMP as long as they don't melt
.I was going to mention the bit about the huge steel cases of the computer terminals being effective faraday cages but Rosh beat me to it. Not to mention it all being mil-spec equipment and probably shielded and grounded beyond belief deliberately.
Combine that with the natural resistance of a vacuum-tube circuit to interferance (operating at 20-50 kV helps to "shrug off" little things like EMP
) and you've got a recipe for survival. A few odd systems errors at most; Perhaps the main generators are off line due to a pulse down the line? Faulty failsafe or some such let it slip through?