Guns as melee weapons

Odin

Odin

Carbon Dated and Proud
Admin
JE also answered a question about using a gun as a melee weapon, if you run out of ammo:<blockquote>I previously suggested a perk called Biff! that allowed characters to use one-handed pistols for pistol whipping (melee skill) and two-handed rifle weapons for butt smashes (melee skill) without changing weapons. A butt smash probably shouldn't do as much damage as a ripper in the gut, but it would provide a nice alternative for people, and could have a good chance of knockdown.

While you could make all such weapons have that property inherently (without a perk), I think it makes them a little overly flexible. The perk requires them to spend something for the benefit.</blockquote>I really don't see the need to have a perk for doing these actions, you should be able to do this without a specific perk.
 
ïðîñòîé êà÷åñòâåííûé óñèëèòåëü

2. tracktor bowling Ïîñëå ýòîé âñòðå÷è ìû ïàðó ðàç ãóëÿëè. Òàê æå òóïî ñ ìîåé ñòîðîíû. Ñâî¸ ïîâåäåíèå ÿ íå ñìîãëà èñïðàâèòü. À ìîæåò è íå ïûòàëàñü. Íî òîãäà ó ìåíÿ áûëà äðóãàÿ ïàññèÿ. Ëåíà. _sweet
ß â êîíòàêòå
 
Real$Time

Real$Time

If FO3 is to conform to the tyranny of Real$Time in a Wastteland
of scarce ammo, who wants to "pause'', ....and click,.. to enable an
action that should be automatic. Even console games allow "ball kicking" when the rats get too close for skewering.

If this is serious Real$Time, than "ball kicking" and butt clubbing would be expected to be immediately available.

If a Perk implies training than perhaps it could be like the ol' Brawling skill that was in "Wasteland". A general, close encounter skill of shin kicks, dodges, and pistol whips.

If the theme of scarcity is sincere, than expect to fix collateral damage to firearms used as clubs. The Repair skill becomes more important. AND for all those that want to see more Melee, than the cost of using the wrong tool, a gun as a club, would induce the swift and thrifty to have that crowbar ready.

4too
 
The Dingley Act of 1897 (ch. 11, 30 Stat. 151, July 24, 1897), introduced by U.S. Representative Nelson Dingley, Jr., of Maine, raised tariffs in United States to counteract the Wilson–Gorman Tariff Act of 1894, which had lowered rates. Following the election of 1896, McKinley followed through with his promises for protectionism. Congress imposed duties on wool and hides which had been duty-free since 1872. Rates were increased on woolens, linens, silks, china, and sugar (the tax rates for which doubled). The Dingley Tariff remained in effect for twelve years, making it the longest-lived tariff in U.S. history. It was also the highest in U.S. history, averaging about 52% in its first year of operation. Over the life of the tariff, the rate averaged at around 47%.[1] The Dingley Act remained in effect until the Payne-Aldrich Tariff Act of 1909.
 
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It wasn`t him who brought this over atoga, the thread just went on that direction and he went with the flow.

We do need to start preparing questions and suggestions on other fronts though, in the Iplay boards there are many who played Fallout games as powergamers, a small change of focus later would be welcome.
 
But in either way, a perk just to do simple melee combat with a gun. That's plain wrong, everyone knows how to hit someone with a gun/rifle/whatever. The melee skill in turn, playes on how well you do it..
 
The perk should simply increase the chance to knock out, or lessen the penalty. The ability should be already inherent. Otherwise, it dosen't make sense! If all the NPC's in the gaming world can do something you cannot do unless you waste a perk in "Biff!", then it is far more illogical then somply giving you the ability to begin with!
 
The physopathic Polock said:
The perk should simply increase the chance to knock out, or lessen the penalty. The ability should be already inherent. Otherwise, it dosen't make sense! If all the NPC's in the gaming world can do something you cannot do unless you waste a perk in "Biff!", then it is far more illogical then somply giving you the ability to begin with!
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I'll second that. The perk shouldn't give you the ability but it should make your use of the ability more logical. Give some special bonuses to the man who takes the perk, or remove the damage done when used without. I'm sure someone who's highly skilled in hitting you in the face with his rifle will do less damage to his gun than he who isn't.
 
I agree with physopathic. The perk should give a bonus to the ability, rather than the ability its self. I think It should do something such as guarenteed knock down, or give you a 25% chance to knock a person out.
 
I gotta go with JE here...

No, it's not realistic. If you want realistic combat, go to Palestine, Chechnya or the Bronx. I for one want a balanced game. Giving free melee attacks without having to switch weapons in Fallout 2 combat does not make for balance (The fact that it does in Game XYZ just shows that Fallout isn't XYZ). It makes things too easy, and, as he said, it makes them too flexible. So yes, you should need a perk.

And as far as I'm concerned, giving pistolwhip (or whatever) for free, and then offering improvements to pistolwhip as a perk would be one the of the more pointless options I could think of, as in "Makes old-school Rad Resistance Perk look useful."
 
Let's be honest though, whacking someone with a gun isn't going to hurt them that much. I mean come on, in a world of super sledge hammers, to suggest that whacking someone on the head with a gun is going to send them flying is a bit much. I'd suggest it's perhaps a useful sneak attack, but not much better than that.

We can't be doing much more than 5 - 10 HP damage here, if that. Knockback should only occur with the perk.
 
Shortly after the Force Bill was passed through Congress, Henry Clay and John C. Calhoun proposed The Tariff of 1833, also known as the Compromise Tariff, to resolve the Nullification Crisis. The bill was very similar to the Tariff of 1832, but with a few exceptions. Most importantly, the Tariff of 1833 guaranteed that all tariff rates above 20% would be reduced by one tenth every two years with the final reductions back to 20% coming in 1842. This essentially forced import tariffs to gradually drop over the next decade, pleasing South Carolina and other Southern states that depended on cheap imports.[7] In addition, the Tariff of 1833 had some other notable impacts. First, it allowed many raw materials used by American industry to be admitted completely free of duty. In addition, it stated that all duties must be paid in cash, with no credit allowed the importing merchant. Some claimed that this was equivalent to an additional 5 percent on tariff rates. Ultimately, South Carolina and the rest of the United States would accept the Tariff of 1833, and warfare between the South Carolina army and the Union was avoided. Both sides received some benefit from the deal. South Carolina now had a much more agreeable tariff and did not have to risk lives to protect its economy, and the United States government, through the Force Act, was given the power to use force to enforce tariffs. Many believe that were it not for the Force Act, South Carolina may have continued its Nullification policies because the Force Act gave the United States government the ability to use military force to enforce tariffs and other economic policies, which posed a clear threat to South Carolina. Though the exact impact of the Force Act on South Carolina's decision to accept the Tariff of 1833 cannot be measured, there is no doubt that it made fighting for nullification a potentially devastating choice. Ultimately, the House passed the Tariff of 1833 by a vote of 119-85 and the Senate passed it by a vote of 29-16.[8]
 
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I don't see how it'd be balanced either, how would it be different from leaving a slot open and hitting/punching them? The only point I see in this attack would be if you had no ammo and needed to attack or didn't want to waste ammo on things like rats. Why a perk? Just get a knife instead, or carry 2 guns.
 
Having to get a perk to thwap someone with a gun is a bit silly. Im with those in this thread who feel that perks associated with these actions should either give additional bonuses and/or lessen penalties not simply give the ability. I also think that hitting someone with the butt of a gun shouldnt necessarily do tremendous damage (especially when compared to a sledgehammer or ripper) but certainly a chance of knockdown (perhaps increased through perks) or knockout on a critical (butt of the gun to the temple, etc) or something like that would not be too bad.

Also, what about having certain weapons be better suited for this sort of thing that would do respectable melee damage? You know, you might have some weapons with bayonets (or rippers on more advanced energy variants =) that users of this style could utilize. I really like this idea as this would help combat centric characters set themselves apart from stealth/diplo/science characters since it would take the advancement of two skills (firearms/melee) to fully take advantage of this style.
 
"Biff!" perk = stupid
Perk to make the use of a fire-arm as a melee-weapon more efficient = stupid too

I don't know about you guys, but when I have two slots to put weapons in, I use both of them. Whenever I run out of ammo with one gun, I use the other weapon I equipped. Simple.

Smelly cat
You are one big stinker! Due to a serious lack of hygiene you have started to give off a horrible stench. You gain 10% to your Poison Resistance and any successful hit in unarmed combat will poison your opponent if you also make a Luck roll.

Requirements: Unarmed 80%, Outdoorsman 80%, EN 6
Click to expand...
 
I like "Smelly cat". It could be not a perk but trait ........ with some penalty to charisma. :)
 
2BR02B
You are the melancholy Dane: you speak daggers, but you use none. With this perk, you can avoid combat altogether by talking your opponent into a mild yet very effective depression if you also make a Luck roll.

Requirements: Speech 120%, CH 8
Click to expand...
 
Swayerist:
You are obsesed with pleasing everyone by horrably mudling the aspects of what the old order liked collectively among themselves. You are thus very adept at "fixing" things, thus you get +30% healing rate to Medic and Repair. However some of your "improvements" are quite illogical, and you gain a -5% luck penalty to all diplomatic skills and -1 to your Intelegence.
Click to expand...

Actualy I don't think Sawyer is screwing up this bad, but as long as were discussing goofy mock-perk ideas...
 
Retool

Retool

JE, et al, have discussed change for competition's sake. So ol' dogs would learn new tricks to master VB/FO3. And one mode of retooling for the new Wasteland of Ammo Scarcity might be what 2nd or 3rd(!) item is in a ready slot. Then, the cluttering of system with even MORE
entertaining but never seriously used perks and traits would be kept to a minimum.

There appears to be a "lowest common'' denominator that reoccurs in JE's commentaries. He doesn't want gamers to be lost in a game system complicated by features that are only there to add color, and the core traits and perks may be too hard to figure out with the 15 minute attention span we modern minds are rarely capable of achieving.

This opinion short changes JE and back hands gamers in general. The focus may be for a clear accessibility, to get a grip on the wheel and a view of the highway ahead, and there will be many more roads to discover.

There appears to be a reoccurring theme at NMA that VB/FO3 will be highjacked by the Sword and Sorcery Types that predominate the I'play forums.

This opinion does little justice to the dominate will that pervades NMA
for a FO3; VB/FO3 is a leap of faith worth the risk, a jump worth the fall. In reality we tend to play the same RPG games. This opinion ignores the truth that all RPG fans want a FO3.

Frustration levels.

Worried about a frustration level?

I've seen a frustration level, reached when the dev's are seeking serious fan input. And bein' professional they've moved on to the next topic.....

Then there's a frustration level in the fan base. So far this is anxiety. The frustration was generated by past performances. It's the shadow paranoia of the 'burn' survivor.

My true frustration level is for poorly configured games that claim everything and do NOTHING. Software bugs that survive the patches so that they become DESIGN FEATURES, to be avoided only by constant saves.... Games that covertly aspire to be clones of other games such as BG or NWN or Diablo, not because of marketing alone, not because of the warm and fuzzy fealty that it generates on the I'play Forums, no, because it's all they really want to know ......
(Ooops, AND I'm sure, that the P-Correct opinion is, only FO fans want to play the same game over and over.....right.)
----no NEW tricks ...no New FO, no a...... LIONHEART.
A bipolar LIONHEART, that aspired to be BG and Diablo-w, and was neither and perhaps, now, nothing.



I've enjoyed following the design discussions and thank NMA for digesting the activity of the dev's. I would rather invest in the success of JE, et al, then listen to the same ol' broken record, repeating BG, Diablo, BG, Diablo, BG, Diablo,......, dungeon crawl,...., Wacka Mole, .....Joystick Waggle,... Pac man.

We've been challenged by JE, et al, to ""think outside the box"" and to anticipate and participate in a NEW FO(3). But this is a two way, double edged, challenge. Will the final product be a triumph of the collective experience and talent at I'play, or another LIONHEART?

Challenge: So ol' dogs, learn new tricks to master VB/FO3.
Pre and post publication.

4too
 
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