Has Fallout become essentially what Destiny is?

ZigzagPX4

ZigzagPX4

The Swiftness of the Ranger
Alright, I'll assume you've heard of Destiny, the sci-fi open-world multiplayer FPS exclusive to console games developed by the makers of the Halo series, back before it got turned over to 343 Industries.

I'll also assume you've heard of Extra Credits, the YouTube channel that does insightful commentary into video games, one that wasn't very well received by this forum for allegedly not appearing to understand the difference between an amnesiac character used as a crutch for lazy writing and a blank slate character for roleplayers to create. Honestly, while I disagree I think his point was just "if you're going to have your character be a courier from a specific place you might as well just go all the way", and I think that it's particularly overreaching to assume everybody knows what kind of game Fallout should be.

But I'll be ignoring that since it's unrelated to this video. In any case, take a look at this:



Everything described here about Destiny is essentially true (except for the multiplayer, obviously) for Fallout 4. It explains clearly what kind of audience Fallout 4 has been designed and written for. I found it useful in understanding completely the exact nature of Fallout 4's popularity and now this clears up any doubts I might've had as to why people actually like Fallout 4.

My question here is, do you believe gamers wanting this kind of video game is exactly what brought the Fallout series to the place where it is today? Do you believe these gamers are wrong for wanting this kind of game?
 
I hate the Extra Credits guys. They're incredibly mediocre armchair theorists that don't deserve the money they make off the series.

And you're going to make me watch him aren't you?

EDIT:
Yeah I had to watch him bloviate about how Destiny is a casual game. Such insight. And no, there is nothing wrong with that. Fallout 4 is pretty insultingly lazy even for that though.

Part of my saltiness is that he tried to tackle religion in games, and I was already unimpressed with him. But he sort of demonstrated his inability to think critically ever when he started quote-mining and farting out semantical fallacies. And instead of actually taking the criticism or you know, doing journalistically responsible things, like admitting he was wrong or offering retractions, he doubled down in a sequel video.

If you have to be told Einstein referred to "God" in a figurative, almost Spinozan way, and just get insulted, you're an idiot. If you're going to define faith in a way broad enough that it can be conflated with all forms of belief, you're a fucking idiot.
 
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No, I believe Bethesda and other publishers wanting to see how much they can get away with is what brought Fallout here. By doing this, they lulled people into tolerating, even praising their work of lower standard. So to me, it is their manipulation of players' interests that has allowed them to effectively sell their kinds of games.
 
DVL said:
And you're going to make me watch him aren't you?
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I... what?
DVL said:
If you're going to define faith in a way broad enough that it can be conflated with all forms of belief, you're a fucking idiot.
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I haven't fully watched that video (on religion), so I might start agreeing after I have, but I've to ask - what exactly is wrong with this?
 
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Aside from being intellectually dishonest?
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/ambiguity

He's one of those people who thinks atheists are just preachers of a different kind and so is fashionably on the fence about everything.
Faith, in a religious context, and not just a "I have faith in Suzy being a good soccer player," is belief without evidence or in the face of active cognitive dissonance.

The issue itself isn't really important though. It's how he handled a controversial issue, even when given a chance to rethink or engage in dialogue. I was already under the impression that he was a subpar commentator, but I now believe he is incapable of producing anything worthwhile I care to listen to.

He was remarkably unprofessional, given that he got really defensive at negative feedback and never really actually talked about "religion in games."
 
DVL said:
Aside from being intellectually dishonest?
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/ambiguity

He's one of those people who thinks atheists are just preachers of a different kind and so is fashionably on the fence about everything.
Faith, in a religious context, and not just a "I have faith in Suzy being a good soccer player," is belief without evidence or in the face of active cognitive dissonance.
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Oh, alright, sorry. I thought you said that he was trying to not offend anyone by not taking a side and that you implied that was wrong, which I didn't think was reasonable, but if that wasn't the case, nevermind all that.

I still didn't make you watch him, though.
 
DVL said:
Yeah I had to watch him bloviate about how Destiny is a casual game. Such insight.
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Regardless, there is a large majority out there that don't understand many of the concepts behind what makes a casual game addicting, and that video probably helped with some of those misunderstandings.

DVL said:
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/ambiguity
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Quick read through that whole website, and... huh. Is it wrong that I may have used every single last one of these at least once each? >_>

I've never been one for logic, or common sense, or to back my claims with actual sources, so I guess it wasn't really a surprise that I remember using at least half of the fallacies in that site.
 
ZigzagPX4 said:
Quick read through that whole website, and... huh. Is it wrong that I may have used every single last one of these at least once each? >_>
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Wrong? I mean it's not like I look at an artist and hate them automatically because of "incorrect anatomy" or whatever. Not everybody is equally skilled at everything.
I don't really expect people to be perfect. Honesty and integrity rates for a lot. And if it makes you feel better, I think you at least do make the effort.

And to be fair, I think a lot of religion is about self-deception so it's very easy to tick me off on the subject. Much less when people actively use sophistry used for the purposes of misleading others because they think the ends justifies the means. There are people who do think that. And they are aware that they are using faulty logic, they just don't really care so long as it discharges their religious duty to evangelize.

I've never been one for logic, or common sense, or to back my claims with actual sources, so I guess it wasn't really a surprise that I remember using at least half of the fallacies in that site.
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Sure, but logic isn't about backing up what you say necessarily, it's about being internally consistent.
 
So, ah, back to my original point.

Practicat said:
No, I believe Bethesda and other publishers wanting to see how much they can get away with is what brought Fallout here. By doing this, they lulled people into tolerating, even praising their work of lower standard. So to me, it is their manipulation of players' interests that has allowed them to effectively sell their kinds of games.
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Well, they're AAA publishers, so the likelihood of them being manipulative is very high. It's just that there were several people on NMA who wondered what kind of audience could ever enjoy a game like Fallout 4 and I thought this video answers a lot of those questions.

DVL said:
Fallout 4 is pretty insultingly lazy even for that though.
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Yes, it definitely is.
 
Well, the trouble isn't that people enjoy it. I get that not everybody wants to find a video game equivalent of chess or War and Peace.
I enjoyed Fallout 3. I didn't respect it.
Minecraft is a casual game. I both enjoyed and respected it.
There's a huge difference.

Destiny is a game that I'd probably just shrug off as a decent game, but just deeply unsatisfying on a personal level simply because it's not my cup of tea. Three years ago, I played a lot of Team Fortress 2 and tried my best to master Spy as a class to the point it bordered on being a religion. And I haven't found a replacement for that experience in a shooter to date.
 
They claim they tried to make Fallout 4 be like Destiny so I am assuming yes. Fallout and Elder Scrolls series are finished for me. I'd like to see Obsidian or InXile make a spinoff, but I won't be looking into buying anymore games titled "Fallout" or "Elder Scrolls" that were made by Bethesda.
 
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I agree, both of those series are dead to me if all they're going to churn out is shit like Skyrim and Fallout 4.
Wish they would let Fallout die already, or hand it over to someone who won't fuck it in the ass.
 
Extra Credits is hot garbage to be honest. You should check out their psudeo-science videos to see the kinda wackos that these guys are. Also the only gaming imdustry experience either has is the long haired guy worked on a failed mobile game.
 
Does it really require a 5 min. video to explain why Destiny/Fallout 4 is mediocre?

Seriously now, if you think about why you (or others) enjoy fast food, then you also know why people enjoy stuff like Destiny or Fallout 4.
 
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