Honour

[Dapper Dan Man]

Recently, I had an incident come up while working that I thought might be suitable as a thread. First, one must understand that I try to esteem such "archaic" things as honour and integrity very highly, whatever one's politica/religious/social beliefs. Now, I also have a great deal of patriotism, though I am by no means blind to the injustices of the US government as well.

Now to the situation. Recently, I have generally found myself looking down two possible paths for my future career. The first consists of maintaining the course to pre-law studies, working through my bachelor's and taking the LSAT and so on. Eventually, I will graduate and most likely find a suitable law school and specialty therein. The second option that has recently come up is the possible opportunity to work for the Central Intelligence Agency, either in an internship or as part of a scholarship I had been considering. A co-worker made comments to the effect that this seemed faintly hypocritical, as I both simultaneously desired to do something beneficial for humanity as a whole, interspersed with a feeling of 'duty' as regards serving my country in a beneficial capacity. I have found I have a prediliction and talent for International Relations, and a professor had suggested I might do very well in something along the lines of national/international security, encouraging me to check out possible work with the CIA.

The question is then: Can one maintain a sense of personal honour despite the belief in working for a 'flawed' organization? Admittedly, I have a lot of respect for the work the CIA does, yet I have had comments suggest that my own libertarian/Democrat views are fundamentally at odds with the work. However, I have also found that service to a more noble purpose (for right or wrong, defending American interests) as appealing on a certain scale, not to mention virtuous despite perhaps the history of the organization itself (in some cases). My talents seem to lead me towards this end, and I was uncertain which path would be the most rewarding in the end. I should say that the CIA work, if I obtained it, might very well be temporary, in which case I would resume law study.

Comments or debate?

 

[Gonzalez]

Work experience is alleyways beneficial, not only for your CV but also, and most importantly, for yourself. You can always use them to give you experience and then return to your studies, regardless of what this organization might be doing or have done in the past.

As for how honorable it is, this is something very personal that you will have to decide yourself. No one knows your own feelings better than yourself.

I would personally give it a try if I were you, to see what happens, but I am not you.

The important thing here is how beneficial this is for you and if it worths to do it.

 

[Lazarus Plus]

You have to ask yourself: Just because your views look at something askance, does that necessarily make it a flawed way of doing things, or merely a pragmatic way?

Idealism and optimism are not necessarily the straightest path through the mud, and ultimately (long term view) the ends will justify the means.

 

[welsh]

Fireblade- you are choosing between two careers that are fraught with personal and ethical issues.

You should also consider that the further you go down certain pathways, the harder it is for you to change direction. For instance if you do your four years of college in IR and history, than it will be difficult for you to switch over to being a Veterinarian.

I think it pays to understand what your opportunities are and the consequences of each decision. Currently CIA has been hiring a lot (and it hires a lot from my University) . Do you have the credentials for CIA (often this is not an international relations specialization but languages, sciences, engineering- and when it is IR it often requires a high level of specialization).

That said there are quite a few jobs in the IR field or IR related fields. You don't have to go CIA if you don't want to. If you do decide that a career with the agency is important, I would advise that you spend a lot of time getting to know the good and bad of that organization.

Likewise, a lot of folks think law school is a decent alternative, except that the market is saturated with lawyers and getting one of the better jobs is more difficult than you may wish. I have consulted a lot of students thinking about law school. Also don't forget that a lot of lawyers finish school and either don't go into practice or spend only a few years in practice before doing something else.

Of the people I did law with, some stayed in the practice and became partners. Others became school teachers, government officials, restauranteers, investors, art gallery owners.....

Truth is there are often many things in life that will lead to happiness. This often means that you can do those things without making ethical or moral sacrifices. My advice would be to try to figure out that which gives you the most happiness and then build a career that emphasizes that. Work sucks for most people. But getting paid to do something you enjoy makes for a wonderful career.

 

[Ugly John]

Don't forget that if you do law... you might be in moral conflict with your client. abd you will have to defend him. Or even worse, you might be on the procecuiting side of someone who holds the same beliefs as you do and still have to procecute him/her to the full extent of you capabilities.

ON the other Hand...CIA... just tell them i didn't mean to...they'll understand.

 

[The Vault Dweller]

Fireblade you've impressed me once again.

First of all...

DO NOT BECOME A LAWYER!

If you get into a situation where you have to choose between your client's success and your morality you'll have to choose between your career or your conscience.

If you go into the CIA hopefully you'll do lots to stop terrorism. If this means you take part in activity's you deem wrong than being part of the organization will give you an opportunity to gain information on whats really going on and you can use this to make things better. Seriously.

Plus in the CIA you can shoot people. You'll be a "Guardian" indeed...

Sincerely,
The Vault Dweller

 

[welsh]

No offense but the "Lawyers are all evil" bit gets a bit carried away.

Sure there are lots of crooked lawyers out there, there are a lot who have substituted their personal morality for their clients, who are willing to do some pretty evil crap.

My wife and I were looking at the brochure of one of the top NYC lawfirms and their clients and cases, and came away thinking that these guys represented everything evil short of Darth Vader.

That said, the problem for lawyers is one of choice. And that's true if you go in CIA or law.

The further you go in life, the fewer your choices, therefore you need to make your choices very carefully..

Sure there are some scumbag lawyers. But there are also some good ones. It's a matter of your choices and what you want to do with your career.

If you join the CIA you might be staging a coup d'etat. You might be setting up stings against foreign individuals where you blackmail them for information. You might be doing business with some very shady characters. You will almost certainly be keeping secrets and telling lies. And you wil be doing so in a legal environment in which you have few legal protections.

 

[Hovercar Madness]

No offense but the "Lawyers are all evil" bit gets a bit carried away.

Sure there are lots of crooked lawyers out there, there are a lot who have substituted their personal morality for their clients, who are willing to do some pretty evil crap.

No offense, but lawyers are supposed to be evil. It's simply how the western judicial system works. The lawyer's job is to get his client off the hook, whether he's guilty or not. The prosecutors job is to see the suspect fried. The logic being that evil lawyer + evil prosecutor = justice. That it rarely works is beside the point. Personal morality has little to nothing to do with it.

Obviously, I'm oversimplifying and my "evil" equation is BS, but that's because thinking in moral terms about justice usually leads to silliness.