House Resolution 4437
- Thread starter Corith
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Forgotten said:
http://www.bloggernews.net/2006/03/hispanics-protest-bill-that-would.html
http://www.timesdaily.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060327/APA/603270749&cachetime=5
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/3751175.html
http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/03/25/immigration.rallies.ap/index.html
http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/03/24/immigration.protest.ap/index.html
I'm for it; it's called illegal immigration, after all. I'm not unsympathetic to immigrants, but they should have to go through the same channels that all the rest of our ancestors went through, ie LEGALLY immigrate here and become a citizen who both benefits and benefits from our country. If our laws and procedures for legally processing immigrants is broken or not working, then it needs to be worked on and fixed - telling them that it's ok that they broke the law, that it's ok to make a mockery of our nation's laws, borders and need for security is not a good idea.
Besides - and this is the part of it that really gets to me - as long as the government is taking 25% of my income away from me each year, they'd better not say it's ok for someone to live here without any obligation, getting paid "under the table" and taking home 100% of their pay. Sorry for the strong language, but fuck that. If they're going to live here they need to be following the same rules that I and everyone else has to live by.
Besides - and this is the part of it that really gets to me - as long as the government is taking 25% of my income away from me each year, they'd better not say it's ok for someone to live here without any obligation, getting paid "under the table" and taking home 100% of their pay. Sorry for the strong language, but fuck that. If they're going to live here they need to be following the same rules that I and everyone else has to live by.
TheWesDude
Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!
i agree with montez...
i find it fucking pathetic that illegal immigrants can come into the US and get the same benifits as those who were born here and sometimes even better than those who live and work here.
one thing i do support is if these mexican women want to come to the US to have their babies who then get perma-citizenship. i would say keep the baby and send the mommy home and put the baby up for adoption. fuck them. they are worse than prostitutes and ho's.
i find it fucking pathetic that illegal immigrants can come into the US and get the same benifits as those who were born here and sometimes even better than those who live and work here.
one thing i do support is if these mexican women want to come to the US to have their babies who then get perma-citizenship. i would say keep the baby and send the mommy home and put the baby up for adoption. fuck them. they are worse than prostitutes and ho's.
Malkavian said:
I'll second that. You're full of shit, dude.
Also, I used to be pretty ignorant on this subject and my opinion was basically "ah well, let them come in anyways" but after looking at some stats and reading articles about the situation in California and the southwest, I'm completely for this resolution. I don't know if it's as big a national security risk as people are making it out to be, but the economic effects alone warrant some serious policing and deporataion. A wall probably isn't out of the question either.
And of course, the blame for all of this lies square on the shoulders of Mexico's government, but they can't be counted on to do a damn thing about it.
yes, i'm sure your ancestors asked the native americans for citizenship before conquering the Americas.Montez said:
of course, breaking the rules isn't the answer, but the problem is that laws are rigid. each human has a different story, a different past. laws can't take everything in account. no matter how detailed your laws, they'll always be flawed.Montez said:
it's funny that a nation that claims to be the home of the free and was build with values such as equality just shuts the door on these people, while trying actively promoting migration to foreign scientists, industrials & such. double standards ftw.
in the end, you cant blame this on Mexico or on the people, but you have to look at yourself first before blaming others. the reasons for your migration problems are domestic, not foreign. a stupid fence and tough laws won't fix that...
Jarno Mikkola
Water Chip? Been There, Done That
I see myself nowhere near those places, so cut the quotes as you should, but it might be that you were writing about someone else, but my guess that you didn't.Corith said:
But the thing is, you(them) can go though the wall, go from above, build a tunnel and go bellow, or just go around it by seas.Pajari said:
It might be in the interesse of USA, that they would build an organization that would better integrate the immigrants to the American society. And I am talking one that is in Mexico not the ones that deal with the illegal immigrants already in US.
But an intellegent lense and a lawn might.SuAside said:
I still say that the best solution to illegial immigration is minefields, obsticle courses and a computerised speech test in english.
If they make it past the mines, the obsticles and can speak english, a door should open up to an immigration center where they will be issued their citizenship papers, $3000, and a bus ticket to the city of their choice. Lets face it, if they can make it through that, it proves they at least have a firm grasp of the english language, tenacity and problem solving skills.
If they make it past the mines, the obsticles and can speak english, a door should open up to an immigration center where they will be issued their citizenship papers, $3000, and a bus ticket to the city of their choice. Lets face it, if they can make it through that, it proves they at least have a firm grasp of the english language, tenacity and problem solving skills.
Vault City citizenship test FTW.
Biggest fucking contradiction ever. So you're protesting a measure to make sure that citizen means something in this country, and protesting that is supposedly going to secure your rights and shit like that.
Damn, some of the college students lately really need to lie down the bong/pipe.
So how does illegal immigrant = freedom?
Hello, ILLEGAL immigrant.
I love the "discriminatory" line, as if moving to another country means you should automatically get citizenship. Discrimination upon legal citizenship status is not really discrimination.
Hello, dumbshits, the only reason why you don't shoot US citizen for crossing your border, even illegally, is because their pocket change might have a chance of restabilizing the local economy. Oh, and your coyotes shoot at the border patrol, which adds to the fun.
Fucking hilarious yuppies. Too late, that one already bred.
Jarno Mikkola
Water Chip? Been There, Done That
So according to Eliger, everybody deserves the right to a better life. So why not, to make a better life for many, and kill him, and his breed.Roshambo said:
Quantos Leap
It Wandered In From the Wastes
I am so tired of that argument. Shit happens. We're a prosperous developed nation, hundreds of years after those events. So should we just forget all the progress and development we've made as a nation and have our country usurped by the third world simply because "our ancestors" were not the most diplomatic of people? Shit, with that logic, the entire world should just be displaced and restored to it's "original" population template.
And furthermore, how is it right to favor mexicans for citizenship? Nobody should be entitled to anything simply because of race. Mexicans today are not the people that were displaced hundreds of years ago; just like *I* am not the one that displaced them.
Yes, *I* am at fault for some reason, yes, the average american citizen is to blame, makes lots of sense.
Please don't associate me with the crooks that put us all in this situation in the first place.
I think it's obvious the problem is both domestic and foreign. A combination of free trade run amok and corrupt politicians/corporations on both sides of the border are mainly at fault. But of course, real issues like that are not discussed during the debate, considering the purely overwhelming amount of superficial, emotionally charged rhetoric, force-fed down everyone's throats is so effective at blurring those issues. It's a big scam, and the certain key figures involved know exactly what they're doing this for: GREED.
Fact is, illegal aliens put an enormous burden on tax paying american citizens, increase crime rates, lower educational standards, lower wages for skilled and unskilled trades. All in all, this results in an economic downfall, cultural usurpation, and an all out assault on America's framework, our middle class. Just one of many things that will further drive our country into a worthless heap of shit in the future. Now, it doesn't have to be that way. After all things are considered, the american people make the biggest difference in what's legislated and what's not. That's why I'm hopeful we will get a good bill enacted, because it's clear what the average american wants: a secure border and a legal system that upholds the laws it's based on.
Right, and because of that twisted ideological garbage you're harboring, let's open up our country to the entire third world. Yes, let's not look at it logically, in terms of the economic and social impact of such a proposal, let's look at it in the trendy pseudo "humanitarian" way, absolutely dissociated from any form of reason or intelligence.
SuAside said:
Since my ancestors didn't immigrate here from Ireland until the 1920's and thus had absolutely nothing to do with the majority of this country's history that is meaningless to me. My ancestors had as much to do with the native americans getting wiped out as your ancestors did - absolutely nothing. The majority of the citizens of our country are descended from immigrants who didn't come here until the late 1800's and beyond, making them ineligible for guilt trips about native americans or slavery.
I have a friend who is Turkish. She wanted to immigrate here, and after she finished school in Turkey she managed to get over here on a work visa and applied for citizenship. I met her because she worked at the same place as one of my friends. She met another of my friends, they started dating, and three years later they were ready to move in together with plans to marry the next year. She worked here, paid taxes, yet through red tape, immigration laws, and most likely the fact that she was a muslim too, she was not able to aquire citizenship in all that time. The place she worked laid off a lot of people, including her, and that meant that her work visa was no longer valid and she was going to be deported back to Turkey. So, her and my friend were forced to marry a year early in a hastily arranged civil ceremony in order for her to stay here. She didn't sneak over here, she wasn't trying to cheat the system and gain the benefits without the obligations - she tried to immigrate in good faith through legal means. Granting illegal immigrants amnesty, saying it's ok and that there's no problem with it, is a big "Fuck You" to her and every person who tries to immigrate to this country legally and is screwed by the system. It's rewarding the dishonest and punishing the honest, and if anyone thinks that's fair or right in any way, shape or form then they need to re-evaluate their outlook.
Again, if our immigration laws and procedures are hopelessly screwed up, which it appears they are, then they should be fixed. If someone who comes over here through legal channels in an attempt to become a member of our society, someone who contributes to the well being of our citizens and government by having taxes taken out of their wages even though they aren't a citizen and won't benefit from it, if they can be instantly deported the second they lose their job, however, then every illegal immigrant should recieve the same treatment.
welsh
Junkmaster
Considering how difficult and expensive it is to immigrate to the US, I don't really blame a lot of these folks for slipping over the border.
It's cost my wife and I nearly $1000 bucks for her to become a citizen. Most will pay more than that if they want to immigrate legally, probably upwards of $4K. Than you got the rather terrible treatment given to foreign nationals abroad who try to get a visa to visit the US. Add the administrative hassles when the INS folks fuck up the forms or schedule a meeting that forces you to travel another couple of hundred miles and miss another day of work.
And did anyone mention that it's a hell of a lot easier to immigrate if you have money and are investing in the US.
Ignore the fact that most of the "white" folks that came to the US were poor Germans, Italians and Irish.
So what do we have- it's easy to immigrate to the US if you're rich. It's probably easier to fly in and stay if you're not rich (or don't want the hassles). And yeah, apparently more illegals fly in that cross a river in Texas.
Of course, you folks do realize that a lot of that land the "wetbacks" are invading was the land that got stolen in some rather dubious wars started to claim territory. Oh but that was manifest destiny.... or the 19th century of spreading democracy.
I am not saying that there isn't an immigration problem and I love the fact that the Republicans are cut down the middle on this.
Rosh, I know you are pissed off that so many "wetbacks" are criminals. Hey it's "illegal". Yeah, it's illegal to conspire with illegal immigrants and hire them too but we don't see much hardship on that one. It's "illegal" to discriminate, but we do that all the time. It's illegal to make payoffs to the government for favors, but that doesn't stop them.
But.. yeah they aren't white people! And they're catholics! And they speak funny.
Would we give a shit of it was Sweden on our border and not Mexico? Would be so pissed off it was Irish or German illegals? (of course if it were the Dutch we'd have to nuke those fuckers).
You want to fix the illegal immigrant problem in the US. Fix the Latin American countries where they come from. Most of these hispanics are just looking to make a better life and they work pretty damn hard and put up with a lot of shit that American workers don't.
If you want to stop them from coming over, than create incentives for them to make a better life for themselves where they live.
Oh that's foreign aid! Yeah- and cheaper than a Stealth bomber and much more effective. Where do you want to spend a billion dollars?
It's cost my wife and I nearly $1000 bucks for her to become a citizen. Most will pay more than that if they want to immigrate legally, probably upwards of $4K. Than you got the rather terrible treatment given to foreign nationals abroad who try to get a visa to visit the US. Add the administrative hassles when the INS folks fuck up the forms or schedule a meeting that forces you to travel another couple of hundred miles and miss another day of work.
And did anyone mention that it's a hell of a lot easier to immigrate if you have money and are investing in the US.
Ignore the fact that most of the "white" folks that came to the US were poor Germans, Italians and Irish.
So what do we have- it's easy to immigrate to the US if you're rich. It's probably easier to fly in and stay if you're not rich (or don't want the hassles). And yeah, apparently more illegals fly in that cross a river in Texas.
Of course, you folks do realize that a lot of that land the "wetbacks" are invading was the land that got stolen in some rather dubious wars started to claim territory. Oh but that was manifest destiny.... or the 19th century of spreading democracy.
I am not saying that there isn't an immigration problem and I love the fact that the Republicans are cut down the middle on this.
Rosh, I know you are pissed off that so many "wetbacks" are criminals. Hey it's "illegal". Yeah, it's illegal to conspire with illegal immigrants and hire them too but we don't see much hardship on that one. It's "illegal" to discriminate, but we do that all the time. It's illegal to make payoffs to the government for favors, but that doesn't stop them.
But.. yeah they aren't white people! And they're catholics! And they speak funny.
Would we give a shit of it was Sweden on our border and not Mexico? Would be so pissed off it was Irish or German illegals? (of course if it were the Dutch we'd have to nuke those fuckers).
You want to fix the illegal immigrant problem in the US. Fix the Latin American countries where they come from. Most of these hispanics are just looking to make a better life and they work pretty damn hard and put up with a lot of shit that American workers don't.
If you want to stop them from coming over, than create incentives for them to make a better life for themselves where they live.
Oh that's foreign aid! Yeah- and cheaper than a Stealth bomber and much more effective. Where do you want to spend a billion dollars?
now now now, don't jump to stupid assumptions. i never said anything about halting migration, or restoring the world to it's old image, or even about favoring Mexicans, did i? stop putting moronic statements in my mouth, i'm quite capable of doing that myself.Mingus said:
and how did i imply a guilt trip?Montez said:
the funny thing is that americans are one of the most 'mobile' populations in the world. have a new job across the country for a buck more per hour? pick up & move!
that and your history implies is that you should be more apt to deal with immigrants, yet you fail miserably it seems.
there are limits really. moral ones anyway. can you just deport someone thats has lived a decade in the US and is entirely integrated into the community (as well as his/her kids)? i think not.Montez said:
opening the boarders is never a solution, but too harsh laws simply force people to ignore them.
Jarno Mikkola
Water Chip? Been There, Done That
Ouh slayer, ouh slayer, you should try to be more perceptive, be more of sniper, and you might see something, that might stun you. At least in the past, before the china phenomenon, the american stealth bombers were made in america, so the money flowed though the american society to feed it's own, while the food, etc. for the foreign aid was bought from where ever and nearer the better. Now you might begin to wander why the america has so big debt, and so many lovely motherfuckers that give away theirs and your money to help the welps, but that must be just bullshit.welsh said:
And what has this aid work done, well it has been estimated that they have killed from two to twenty five million exess people that wouldn't have born to this world without the help, that's quite a lot of, for a civil organizations. "We are just trying to kill MORE people."
welsh
Junkmaster
Jarno Mikkola said:Ouh slayer, ouh slayer, you should try to be more perceptive, be more of sniper, and you might see something, that might stun you. At least in the past, before the china phenomenon, the american stealth bombers were made in america, so the money flowed though the american society to feed it's own, while the food, etc. for the foreign aid was bought from where ever and nearer the better. Now you might begin to wander why the america has so big debt, and so many lovely motherfuckers that give away theirs and your money to help the welps, but that must be just bullshit.welsh said:
Actually the stealth bomber was a weapon built to destabilize the soviet union during the end of the COld War. This was Reagan's little play on escalating tensions to force the Russians into bankruptcy- Star Wars was another of their products.
So now we have a nifty piece of weaponry that if it crashes and burns we lose $1 Billion and which we can use to destory a country that we could probably have already destroyed. ANd who benefitted? Well ok, some American Aerospace companies.
ANd supposedly all that money trickles down to society and everyone is happy. But only after each step on the trickle down takes a bigger and bigger cut. Which might be called corporate welfare too.
Because really, stealth bombers are good for blowing up bridges and missile sites, but otherwise don't contribute much to an economy. THe externalities from them, perhaps, but
Oh wait, in a liberal economy you're not supposed to subsidize industries....
Of course foreign aid has a sketchy history. Most of it comes with stipulations that the money is to be used for buying american products (you want to build a housing development- ok, but you need to buy Caterpillar tractors). So what you are basically doing is funding american companies with foreign directed money.
ANd of course a lot of the economic aid is hidden military aid, given to US strategic allies. Israel, Egypt. During the Cold War that was given to Zaire and Liberia- and look how that turned out.
On the good side, people are figuring out how to make foreign aid work. But considering how little is actually given, and how much good will it produces...
Well its sexier to buy stealth bombers which can be used by politicans who were too chicken shit to fight in their own wars.
And what has this aid work done, well it has been estimated that they have killed from two to twenty five million exess people that wouldn't have born to this world without the help, that's quite a lot of, for a civil organizations. "We are just trying to kill MORE people."
Are you referring to the policies to provide contraception and family planning abroad to limit over population? Are you perhaps talking about conservation measures taken in desert regions?
Most of our global trade takes place between three regions- the US, Europe and China-Japan. The reason why is because those regions have been developing their economies and cooperative economies makes for better business.
But Jarno, since you're all into the guns stuff, how about this. Let's take the immigrants trying to come in the US and turn them into soldiers so they can die in Iraq. Oh wait... we're already doing that.