Joel Burgess interview

Tannhauser

Venerable Relic of the Wastes
Orderite
Silver Rose Studios, an Oblivion modding community, has interviewed Joel Burgess, lead level designer of Fallout 3. While much of the interview is naturally focused on Oblivion, for which Joel was level designer, there are some general questions about him personally and one question on the editor for Fallout 3.<blockquote>Does fallout 3 use a similar editor to tescs? (abe)
Yes, we're using a new version of the CS that is similar to the one for Oblivion. There are a lot of new systems and tools like pathing, scripting, and optimization. We may or may not release mod tools for Fallout 3. We’d like to, but it’s a lot of work to get an editor ready for release and right now we have our full resources focused on making the game.

What other jobs have you had in the past? (abe)
I was a level designer at Terminal Reality, where I worked on Bloodrayne 2, Aeon Flux, and briefly on the unreleased Demonik. Before that I worked for an online game startup that ultimately fizzled, and on a location-based educational game for the University of Central Florida that was exhibited at the Orlando Science Center.

do you put in a lot of overtime to get the bethesda productions done? (abe)
Yeah, I put in the hours when they're needed. Luckily, through good management and planning, there's not the dreaded death-march-crunch that's the subject of so many game industry horror stories. I once worked three days straight, sleeping under my desk to get a game done on time. Here I'm producing better work, for better games, and my life's quality doesn't suffer.</blockquote>Link: Interview With Joel Burgess: Results, Dragonfire Castle confirmed?

Spotted on the Bethesda blog.
 
same answer... "sorry, we cant release the editor because it's too much work". yet, countless other developers (and i'm guessing including Bethsoft) have in the past released dev kits with the simple label "you get this, figure it out yourself, we dont give support for it, now sod off". this is rather common practise.

i might just be negative, but sure sounds like a load of bullocks...
 
His portfolio is nothing to get too excited about. At least Emil has prooven to be a solid level designer - sadly for F3 Joels past games are very consoley/arcadey.

If the game is unbalanced and people complain etc. they'll release the mod tools so somebody else can fix it. Case and point .. not one of the expansions / minimods etc. for Oblivion cared much for fixing stuff people cried about (gameplaywise not game-breaking bugs)...
 
It is just another way to screw over the pc player.

The big draw of the other Bethesda games on PC were the mods. If they take that out of Fallout 3, and there UI is shitty there will be no reason to play it on the PC at all.

Anymore I think that's what companies want.
 
radnan said:
His portfolio is nothing to get too excited about.
you'll find most devs have worked on crappy stuff first, ye know. any job is better than no job (or almost).

you shouldn't judge him solely on his portfolio. hard to know exactly what he did in them and under what circumstances.

hell, even if Tim Cain worked for Bethsoft now as a dev, he wouldn't be able to do much except quit if he didn't like what Toddler is doing. if he needed the job, he'd bite the bullet & work on it anyway.
 
They released the Oblivion kit after it shipped... why can't they just do that, and say upfront now: "it won't ship with the game, but will be released not long after - when we have the time" or similar?

It's a load of bollocks imo, they want to be able to flog premium mods to a locked in community. It will be egg on their face if they don't release one long run, as I can definitely see a lot of the TES community who are interested in F3 getting very peeved at that. Guess the short term profits are all they care about these days tho.

Can't wait for them to create another ID# time-bomb bug like they did in Shivering-Isles, if it wasn't for very prompt fan patches many peoples 30+ hour save games would have been utterly nerfed. Took Beth weeks to respond with a patch, even then it was a just a quick beta patch (which iirc wasn't even compatible with later patches and needed a reinstall for those who had applied it).

Agree on not rating dev's on their prior games solely, most dev's don't get a say in what games they make. They can either do the work assigned, or get another job.
 
That excuse smells like rancid yogurt. If they don't release an editor it'll be for one reason and one reason only, to try and create a captive audience on the PC as they have with the Xbox in order to force them to buy their own shitty mods.
Bethesda have done a lot of stupid things, but slapping the modding community in the face like that would be the very last straw.
 
I don't see why he couldn't release the exact same mapping tools that he uses right now to make levels for FO3..

There is nothing stopping them, and nothing to make. They already have the development tools! they're using them as we speak, to make a complete ripoff of the fallout franchise.


it is painfully obvious now, that this game was never even intended to please fans at all.

I thought the "we're making it for ourselves" quote was ridiculous, but this proves that they really don't even want anyone else to enjoy it unless they enjoy it exactly as they've presented it and pay for the ghey mods that bethesda will undoubtedly thrust upon the world in the year following the FO3 release.


up the torches people!
to maryland!
 
Mods/plugins for Oblivion started to appear almost instantaneously after game was released. And they repair few shitty aspects of game [unfortunetely most of shit stays due to its unrepairability].
Some of those mods are quite nice, some are quite big and most modders care about details and put heart in their work. All plugins are for free and many of them are made in cooperation with other players [discussion about bugs, wanted features... etc.]
[Additional to this - Morrowind is still alive - there are still mods that are being made by players.]

On the other hand - there are those pathetic small official Oblivion's mods created by Beth [first sold one by one, then added to Knights of the Nine as full set - shitty thing because in such circumstances many people paid for them twice]. Most of fanwork is much more useful than this official goodness [Horse Armor doesn't provide saddlebags - one of fanmade mods does, because it's rather illogical to have horse and can't use it for carrying things...], bigger [many fanmade houses vs Beth's Tower for Mage]; they add stuff there, where game lacks it [fanmade Bank, fanmade alternate beginning, fanmade companions vs... official Orrery] and even add a bit gamble-fun [snail races are nice]... etc.
Why bother with buying official mods if much much better stuff can be found and get for free?

CS given to players is very powerful tool. It also can expose much of ridiculousness of the game. "Mod that repairs this or that part..." shows that in base game it is considered shitty element and also that official mods don't change it.
Maybe Beth doesn't want their game to be repaired by players. They know better - as they claim firmly whenever they have an opportunity to do so.

And lack of fanbase additions make all official stuff the one and only - "take it or get lost and have none".

I wonder if Beth is planning to create any small mods that would work in Oblivion's fashion. I mean like some doors that doesn't open without plugin, some places that aren't fully available if special plugin isn't installed...

Denying players CS would make life of the game shorter. And most of thing that could be in any way repaired would stay shitty and shorten game's life even more.
 
Nim82 said:
They released the Oblivion kit after it shipped... why can't they just do that, and say upfront now: "it won't ship with the game, but will be released not long after - when we have the time" or similar?

He's afraid that all of the hardened modders at NMA will take the editor and make the fallout 3 that should have been made, thereby proving which would have been better.
 
...and Bethesda has plans to kidnap the brightest minds in the Fallout modding community, keep them in the secret dungeons under the Bethesda offices, and force them to develop content for Fallout 3 through torture.

Let us keep the baseless paranoia to a minimum, shall we?

If I remember the Oblivion modding tools correctly, part of the problem is various software that Bethesda has licensed. They have to strip the ability to mod those settings, for legal reasons, out of the tools for a commercial release. There are likely other problems which I'm unaware, but all in all, it isn't as easy a process as you might think.
 
It may not be easy, but I doubt it's a titanic effort like they make it out to be.
And the simple fact is that Bethesda's mods that they charge money for are vastly inferior to what the modding community has given us for free.
There's two ways to deal with competition like that - improve your mod's quality, or eliminate it. Which is Bethesda more likely to go for?
 
Vault 69er said:
It may not be easy, but I doubt it's a titanic effort like they make it out to be.

Eh, if you define the size of the effort as a factor relative to how much money it will make them, it pretty much is a waste of their time.

They won't lose many sales for not making it.
 
xdarkyrex said:
Vault 69er said:
It may not be easy, but I doubt it's a titanic effort like they make it out to be.

Eh, if you define the size of the effort as a factor relative to how much money it will make them, it pretty much is a waste of their time.

They won't lose many sales for not making it.

They'd lose a unique modding community that many developers would kill to have.
 
Vault 69er said:
xdarkyrex said:
Vault 69er said:
It may not be easy, but I doubt it's a titanic effort like they make it out to be.

Eh, if you define the size of the effort as a factor relative to how much money it will make them, it pretty much is a waste of their time.

They won't lose many sales for not making it.

They'd lose a unique modding community that many developers would kill to have.


But that's not money :twisted:


....


:roll:
 
xdarkyrex said:
But that's not money :twisted:


....


:roll:

Oh, maybe not now. But eventually it will be. For all of Bethesda's mistakes and bad leadership, their redeeming feature for years has been easily moddable games.
If they deny us that.. I bet they'll lose a lot of customers. I suppose they'll count on 360 kids bolstering them up.. but that won't last, mark my words.
 
I think they will release a construction set.
But that said, i'm still disappointed with the Oblivion Construction Set.
By the way, CivIV is also using Gamebryo (i think), but CivIV is very moddable, i think after recent patches and so on you can nearly mod the hell out of it.

But as some Civ-IV developer said: 'We were thinking about making a more accessable tool, but that would have taken time, and it would have been far less powerful then editable XML files and so on...'
And this is completly true for Oblivion i think.
 
Vault 69er said:
xdarkyrex said:
But that's not money :twisted:


....


:roll:

Oh, maybe not now. But eventually it will be. For all of Bethesda's mistakes and bad leadership, their redeeming feature for years has been easily moddable games.
If they deny us that.. I bet they'll lose a lot of customers. I suppose they'll count on 360 kids bolstering them up.. but that won't last, mark my words.
Not to defend not including an editor since I'd be fairly pissed if they did it, but I'm pretty sure console games on the whole sell far better than PC games, likely way over the amount they'd gain over time by having PC mods. I'm just pulling this out of my ass of course but I'm fairly sure it's true. 'course, having your console pie and eating your PC mods too would be best.

And in reply to the Tetris thing, what about all of Popcap's games? They're crawling with simple addicting puzzle games.
 
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