Lore inconsistencies
- Thread starter Ausir
- Start date
Should I find any more like the one Ausir mentioned I'll post it here.
Busy with my second walkthrough.
Busy with my second walkthrough.
Thomas de Aynesworth
Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?
Elder Maxson in the first game personally gives you the mission to go to the Mariposa Military Base and stop the supermutant production facility.
Yet in New Vegas, the Courier learns of the "Chains that Bind" which clearly state that an elder cannot give out orders to anyone who is several deviations of rank lower than themselves. Paladin Mathia seems totally fine with this going on right beside him, too.
Conclusion: The "Chains that Bind", though a clever plot device, has no precedent.
Yet in New Vegas, the Courier learns of the "Chains that Bind" which clearly state that an elder cannot give out orders to anyone who is several deviations of rank lower than themselves. Paladin Mathia seems totally fine with this going on right beside him, too.
Conclusion: The "Chains that Bind", though a clever plot device, has no precedent.
Thomas de Aynesworth
Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?
Perhaps - but even in Fallout: Tactics (I know, semi-canon), the Brotherhood of Steel issued orders directly between General and the main character.
I think the "Chains that Bind" was a little short-sighted, to be honest, if not inconsistent with the lore.
I took a look at the Brotherhood information at the Hidden Valley bunker just now. Dates are not explicitly expressed, but it states that the chains that bind are:
"The Chain That Binds is the cornerstone of our organization, the rock that supports the great tree of the Brotherhood and its myriad branches."
I think the "Chains that Bind" was a little short-sighted, to be honest, if not inconsistent with the lore.
I took a look at the Brotherhood information at the Hidden Valley bunker just now. Dates are not explicitly expressed, but it states that the chains that bind are:
"The Chain That Binds is the cornerstone of our organization, the rock that supports the great tree of the Brotherhood and its myriad branches."
Relentless666
It Wandered In From the Wastes
It's probably just an outdated and half-forgotten rule no one takes seriously, because(practically speaking) it's kind of silly.
The chain that binds, actually means that the elder can't issue orders to people who are under direct responsibility of another, such as a head paladin or a head scribe. Therefore Elder Maxson can issue order directly to the vault dweller because he isn't the under the responsibility of any head paladins or head scribes, or any other kind of higher rank.
Thomas de Aynesworth
Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?
So in the cases where an outsider becomes an initiate he can jump the chain of command? Interesting. I never knew that piece of conjecture.
Thomas de Aynesworth
Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?
Cabbot from the Lost Hills bunker also receives orders from the Maxson, and not Vree, as would be appropriate under the auspices of the Chain that Binds.
Thomas de Aynesworth
Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?
Section 2 of the Chain that Binds states explicitly:
"Orders are to observe the flow and not skip ranks. A superior may only give orders to his direct subordinates, and not to those beneath him. In this way harmony of intent and cohesion of thought is maintained."
"Orders are to observe the flow and not skip ranks. A superior may only give orders to his direct subordinates, and not to those beneath him. In this way harmony of intent and cohesion of thought is maintained."
Thomas de Aynesworth
Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?
I can agree with this analysis, actually.sea said:
Elder: Hey there Initiate whatwasyourname, bring me a coffee!
Initiate: No can do, Sir, the Chain That Binds does not allow me taking your direct orders.
Initiate: No can do, Sir, the Chain That Binds does not allow me taking your direct orders.
Relentless666
It Wandered In From the Wastes
Hassknecht said:
Man, I was thinking the exact same thing.
"Sir! You asking me for coffee means you are no longer fit to lead!"
Anarchosyn
Still Mildly Glowing
Nalano said:
Canon is FO1 -> FO2 -> FO3 -> FONV
Anarchosyn
Still Mildly Glowing
sea said:
Just because we hate it doesn't make it any less canon.
Star Wars Episodes 1-3 are canon, for example.
Anarchosyn said:
That is technically true but I think at some point its the fans who then decide what they like and what they do not like.
(Its quite questionable if Fallout 3 fans are Fallout fans, they did not care about the franchise before.
Money may talk but it shows what kind of people the publishers are)
Also, Bethesda may have the IP rights but they are not the creative minds behind Fallout.
Heck they could not even come up with their own ideas, and their expanding of original ideas like the Vault Experiments and the Enclave was terrible.
Should the IP ever be bought by another company, Obsidian hopefully I hope they declare all Zenimax Bethesda created ideas to be non canon.
As for Star Wars, when George Lucas made those movies I think he pretty much lost all credibility with the Star Wars fans.