more randomized encounters?

[Oracle]

Hello all

I was wondering what you guys think of the random encounters in FO2. last night I was playing FO1 and the battles seemed to variate more in numbers and such. Like I encounted just one silly ghoul all alone carring nothing at all.

What I talk about is you often encounter the same numer of enemies useing often the same weapons. Upon one look at the attackers you already know what they are carring.. What I would like to see is that the encounters are more randomized, more variable. Why shouldn't we encounter a lost mutant in the beginning of the game? or an deathclaw for some sort. Also what I would like to see is creature that go hostile with eachother flame gecko vs deathclaw or alliens..just choose your fight. (on a side note encountering a deathclaw vs human party, wouldn't it make sence the such hostile critters would atack you as well? but that would be hard to change I think)

What are your opinions on this?
Would it be hard to mod new encountes in game?

 

[Minigun Jim]

Install the Restoration Patch and you'll get a lot more encounters. The encounter rate in FO2 is determined by the CPU speed, so you get far too few on a modern PC. Killap's mod makes encounters happen a lot more often. I reckon a little too much compared to my original PC i played Fallout on, so I set the encounter rate to 45 in ddraw.ini.

The equipment for NPCs is set in the critter file so I think it's not randomisable.

Some enemies *will* fight each other (mobsters vs yakuza/gangsters, caravans vshighwaymen, robbers vs scorpions and so on)

NPCs/critters fighting another group will also attack you if they finish off their enemies or you fire on them, but otherwise they ignore you. Assume they're too distracted by the people who are actually fighting back if it helps .

I know new encounters can be done, Kaga's encounters are included in several mods. I'd suggest it to the Megamod as it's going above and beyond the developers' ideas.

 

[Oracle]

Firstly I'm not talking about the travel speed, I'm talking about the varity in these random encounters. Also I know that there are caravan vs raiders battles etc. However if it wasn't clear: from the start when you encounter a animals vs human partie I want to be atacked direct form the start as well by the animal. I expect that wild animal wouldn't keep humans apart.

 

[MIB88]

Hmm. Well, I think the encounters are pretty much set in Fallout 2. What I mean to say is that, there are set encounter tables. They cover specific areas. Actually, different encounters can be made. The question is: Is there enough room in the encounter tables? In many areas, there is room for growth. Each encounter table (there are 75) can have as many as 40 encounters. Trying to go over this will mess up the game... if it even works.
In the Megamod, there is not so much room for growth. Those 40 include the encounters that were originally there, special encounters, Kaga encounters, and more. I know I can't add any encounters to some areas without removing something that was already there.

But, if you want randomness, there is also a possibility for this. I mean, take an encounter with robbers. The encounter could be set to take into consideration things like character level and almost anything else (by use of global variables). So, let's say you want a harder encounter. Well, maybe depending on your level, there could be extra robbers there to attack you. Or, maybe they have more dangerous weapons. If you have something specific in mind, let us know.

As for your question about mixed groups like dogs and humans attacking you at the same time, some of those are fixable, and others are not. I fixed this with encounters regarding Kaga, Morton brothers, and the new Enclave patrol encounters. But, it's not really possible with the dogs.
Dogs sometimes attack the player. Sometimes they are with the party you are fighting against. If I fix it so that the dogs are on the same team all the time, then when you encounter 'Slavers fending off wild dogs', they will all attack you anyway.

 

[Oracle]

So I see, thats to bad.. I do not like the idea of level scaling that much.. It makes level up less usefull.

did FO1 have these encounter tables as well?

 

[MIB88]

I do not know how Fallout 1 worked. I don't have those files here.
But, please do not take me so literally. Use of player level to add more to an existing encounter is only one example. I said you can take into account anything that is covered in a global variable. Open up the vault13.gam file in your data/data folder. Just look through that list. If you want an encounter based on one of those, it can be done. The other limitation I mentioned is still there, though. There has to be room to add it to a particular encounter table. The encounter tables determine where in the game world an event is likely to happen. It is what determines why you meet Yakuza around New Reno instead of Modoc. Yes, you can make Yakuza (or any new encounter you want to create) occur around Modoc, only if there are less than 40 encounters already there.

 

[Minigun Jim]

I said you can take into account anything that is covered in a global variable.

Global variable, eh?
How many of those are there, and could you just use a "roll dX" function to determine the weapons? Failing that, what about basing it on the time of day? that gives more options, so night raiders would have, say FN FALs (night sight) instead of Grease Guns.

 

[Oracle]

So the whole worldmap is split up in several encounter tables. Each having a max of 40 different encounter possible. right?

The hubologist come in only in parties of 6 and 4 (as I recall correnctly) so these will already take 2 slots in the encounter table near san fran? Wouldn't there be a way to make such encounters random in number of hubologists outside these encounter tables?
Didn't Obj_dude mod FO2XP also have randomized weapons on enemies? http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=18008&highlight=objdude Or was it only after killing the like you did with the loatable armor mod?

Anyway, If the encounter tables are not completely filled for each sector, then it would be nice to do so, to alleast to create some more variety.

Thanks for the imput MIB88

 

[MrElusive]

i'm a little confused about the so called encounter tables.. is it an actual table file (like an xml) or are you just referring to the Fallout2/Data/Data/Worldmap.txt file... which also has all the encounter data in there?

 

[MIB88]

i'm a little confused about the so called encounter tables.. is it an actual table file (like an xml) or are you just referring to the Fallout2/Data/Data/Worldmap.txt file... which also has all the encounter data in there?

I am indeed referring to the worldmap.txt file.

I said you can take into account anything that is covered in a global variable.

Global variable, eh?
How many of those are there, and could you just use a "roll dX" function to determine the weapons? Failing that, what about basing it on the time of day? that gives more options, so night raiders would have, say FN FALs (night sight) instead of Grease Guns.

I have set aside space for 1114 global variables in the Megamod so far, although only about 950 or so are used. But, that number can be whatever number you need it to be.

All the items in the generated enemy's inventory are determined here. There is the possibility, I think, of randomly generated weapons here. I haven't tried it, but it may be possible. Weapons dependent upon time of day? Hmm. I really have no idea about that one.

So the whole worldmap is split up in several encounter tables. Each having a max of 40 different encounter possible. right?

Yes, 75 encounter tables to cover the worldmap. 40 different possibilities for that table. However, the 40 possibilities for one table could, theoretically be different from the 40 on another table.

The hubologist come in only in parties of 6 and 4 (as I recall correnctly) so these will already take 2 slots in the encounter table near san fran? Wouldn't there be a way to make such encounters random in number of hubologists outside these encounter tables?

No, 1 slot. Numbers of enemies are already random. TYPE of encounter is what I am talking about. So, the Hubologist encounter, regardless of how many you meet, is one encounter. Hubologists fighting a press gang is another.

Didn't Obj_dude mod FO2XP also have randomized weapons on enemies? http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=18008&highlight=objdude Or was it only after killing the like you did with the loatable armor mod?

I don't remember everything from that mod. Some numbers of enemies were changed. New encounters were generated using some of the art from Tactics. That mod included encounters with giant wasps, gila lizards, wolves, and cockroaches. I have included some of those encounters already.

Anyway, If the encounter tables are not completely filled for each sector, then it would be nice to do so, to alleast to create some more variety.

I could easily fill the encounter table the rest of the way. However, you were just talking about the vaiety of encounters. So, what is this variety? Or, do you mean you want to be up near Vault City, and encounter mobsters because only 34 of 40 encounter spots are used up? If you want different encounters, they would have to be drawn up. I could spend some time thinking up new encounters. Do you have something specific in mind, or do you want me to just use existing ones? How about brahmin fighting remnants of the Master's Army? Ghoul crazies fighting alongside Enclave patrolmen?
Throw out some ideas.

 

[MrElusive]

and on that note it's therefore very very easy to just quickly code up your own in that worldmap.txt. The syntax is baby stuff anyway so no quabbles there.

As for ideas, i've always wanted some more hubologist encounters coz i just farm their g11's for money (and on the plus side i hate anything to do with scientology.. so killing those elronologists is a passion). Something along the lines of having a a 4-15 encounter with hubs vs. enclave or something (maybe in the border EPA area rather than directly around sanfran). I always thought it would be kinda cool to see some raiders vs unity patrols or something like that too... ie: some REALLy heavy firefights. soo much potential

 

[Oracle]

I could easily fill the encounter table the rest of the way. However, you were just talking about the vaiety of encounters. So, what is this variety? Or, do you mean you want to be up near Vault City, and encounter mobsters because only 34 of 40 encounter spots are used up? If you want different encounters, they would have to be drawn up. I could spend some time thinking up new encounters. Do you have something specific in mind, or do you want me to just use existing ones? How about brahmin fighting remnants of the Master's Army? Ghoul crazies fighting alongside Enclave patrolmen?
Throw out some ideas.

Well the mobster might be a rather bad idea, but you got the point.
I would like to see for example are dumb traveling supermutants, killing just to survive. More deathclaw encounters to get the "oh crap an encounter! hope it's not a deathclaw!!" no need for a whole pack like in San Fran, just one or two would do.
more ghouls encounters etc.

Also after reading the Fallout online tread and seeing how much players kill eachother, maybe such based encounters would be nice as well. No raider or mercenary groups, just people trying to survive. (they could actually be friendly and ask for help first then atack if not helped)
There are probably allot of more interresting ideas. you just got to imagen what would happen if some group encounter other groups animals etc.

As for ideas, i've always wanted some more hubologist encounters coz i just farm their g11's for money (and on the plus side i hate anything to do with scientology.. so killing those elronologists is a passion).:

I did the same thing, It somewhat felt like cheating, so I rather dislike these encounters. those weapons where sold for huge amounts!!

I always thought it would be kinda cool to see some raiders vs unity patrols or something like that too... ie: some REALLy heavy firefights. soo much potential

I like that idea to. Raider and merceries vending of BOS soldiers.
EPIC

 

[encinodude]

On a side note, how complicated is it to create new or even edit existing special encounters? I've always wanted to replace with the Monty Python encounters with something less zany (I like MP, but for god's sake).

 

[MIB88]

...how complicated is it to create new or even edit existing special encounters?

It depends on what you want to do. To simply remove them is way easy. To create a new one could be extremely difficult depending on how much work you want to do (critters, new maps, scripts, story, etc.).

 

[MrElusive]

jah it really depends on how far your willing to go. I'm doing a special encounter myself which is a sort of a pun of oblivion. Basically you find an oblivion gate in the middle of the wasteland (same sorta layout as that fake v13 encounter) and then the screen locks into place (like that frank horrigan desert encounter), two scamps and a deadric mage jump out only to be met with 3 or so imperial soliders.

Screen unlocks, the basically invincible soliders kill the daedra... say a little dialoge along the lines of the generic "i saw a couple of mudcrabs earlier, nasty creatures..", walk off the map and disapear (like how mysterious stranger disapears off just after an encounter).

The dead deadric mage will just have 1 new item, a firebolt spell (i'm thinking of doing a throwing animation with a plasma or laser bolt being fired off or something). And no you can't go into the oblivion gate afterwards lol.

My problem right now is working out how to put my own pallete files in so that F2 understands it. Photoshop can export .pal files but they are like 1kb and the fallout ones are about 30kb each... hmmm.

 

[encinodude]

...how complicated is it to create new or even edit existing special encounters?

It depends on what you want to do. To simply remove them is way easy. To create a new one could be extremely difficult depending on how much work you want to do (critters, new maps, scripts, story, etc.).

I was thinking of editing the existing ones. Namely the MP ones. The Knights all have the powered armor appearance, so how difficult would it be to edit their dialogue to make them sound like they were Enclave patrolman searching for a giant rat who ate a prototype nuclear grenade?

 

[MIB88]

Again, it depends on how much work you want to put into it. Editing dialog is easy: just open the relevant dialog files with Notepad and edit them like any other document. If you want to change the timing of their dialogs, want them to talk longer, have more dialog choices, etc., then you will have to change their scripts. I have no idea whether or not you think that is easy or difficult.

 

[MrElusive]

at which point it depends on the magnitude of changes you want to make. One is for sure, you will almost always want to do something that you have already seen been done in fallout, and so it's just a matter of decompiling the scripts you need to look at, and simply try reading, copying, pasting and trying to understand how BIS did it, and incorporate that knowledge into your script.

 

[encinodude]

I'm not about to commit myself to modifying scripts and all that yet. Editing MSG files in notepad would be sufficient for me. Would there happen to be a list of which dialogue files correspond to which character, to make life easier?

 

[MrElusive]

well it is... in a very fallout-styled way. The names of the dialogue corresponds directly to the names of the scripts by which they are used... since scripts directly control the .msg files in the first place (in regards to dialogue for characters anyway). If you have the mapper installed, you can browse the Mapper\Scripts\NameOfCity as it's organised by location rather than just by name alone. It will save you time to look there as a guide (for the correct filename in dialogue) to pinpoint whichever character you need to edit. The names are usually easy enough to figure out. Eg: the script (and associated .msg dialogue file) for Lenny is GCLENNY.int, meaning Gecko-City-Lenny.
Hope that helps somewhat.