NFL 2010

[TwinkieGorilla]

the year changed, retards. anyway:

lol, Roethlisberger.

 

[Brother None]

Man, this thread just shows up earlier every year.

I figured we'd wait for the draft for once

I hate the offseason

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

i just couldn't bear to post in a thread which said 2009 any longer. also:

lol, Roethlisberger.

 

[Brother None]

lol what? He's accused of stuff, who knows if he'll be found guilty?

I don't see the lol.

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

twice in one year = lol

 

[Brother None]

Only one is actually a criminal charge. The other one is so obviously bullshit I'm not sure why anyone is taking it seriously.

 

[UniversalWolf]

One accusation, even if it's BS, makes you a bigger target for a second.

I hate stuff like this because I know some men prey on women, but on the other hand I've seen women lie about this sort of thing enough times to require proof.

Makes me glad I'm not rich and famous as well as handsome.

The Wunderlic scores were leaked. Every time that test comes up I'm reminded that Vince Young got a 6 on his first try.

That's in the range of, "I play with toy cars."

 

[Sander]

That's in the range of, "I play with toy cars."

Ey, fuck you, toy cars are awesome.

I like how this accusation has brought a ton of stories on how Big Ben is really an asshole and not the lovable goofy QB, a deserving face of the Steelers franchise.

 

[Cimmerian Nights]

Leave it to the Jets to fuck up the league's #1 rushing team. Pay LDT more than they did T. Jones. I guess those PSL sales are still way behind for that new stadium. Finally, some class in the AFC east though!

I like what I'm seeing from Cleveland and Seattle so far, they're doing some much needed housecleaning. Baltimore definitely addressed their one glaring deficiency.

I'm glad the Patriots didn't overpay for any of the retreads out there. They navigated their way through FA re-signing purgatory pretty deftly, and that in itself was enough- Wilfork, Bodden, Faulk, Mankins, Neal, Banta-Cain. Bummer to see Ben Watson leave, but he never panned out anyway, stonehands. Everybody else who's worth it is tied up now. Something like 11 picks in the first two rounds this year and next. Must suck for the haters

 

[Brother None]

I like what I'm seeing from Cleveland and Seattle so far, they're doing some much needed housecleaning. Baltimore definitely addressed their one glaring deficiency.

Baltimore's move was genius. The Bears have obviously lost their way, Peppers is an overpriced signing. No doubt you agree, though you'd disagree if it were the Pats signing him

The Browns dealings look godawful. The only thing that made sense was the Kamerion Wimbley trade, and that's only if they got the rumoured 3rd rounder, anything less and they got robbed. Holmgren royally fucked up QB-wise (not to mention how much they could've got for Quinn or DA last off-season, the Browns FO in general is terrible). Releasing DA was bad enough, but trading for Wallace sunk any value Quinn had left, and they basically had to dump him for chump change. Then signing Delhomme to a starter-level contract, and we have this off-season's equivalent of last season's Broncos.

The Hawks aren't really doing anything. Moving Wallace when asked was a no-brainer, but we don't seem to have done much on the market otherwise, except pursue Baby TO and - somewhat of a head-scratcher - Charlie Whitehurst. At least our FO seems to be more aware that Hasselbeck is done than the pundits are.

Must suck for the haters

Not really, I'd think the haters would be enjoying the streak of futility the Pats have been putting up.

 

[Cimmerian Nights]

Peppers is an overpriced signing. No doubt you agree, though you'd disagree if it were the Pats signing him

I was never really at ease with the idea of Peppers coming here for that kind of money. Patriots are in desperate need of pass rushers, and obviously he's the best out there, but that doesn't automatically make him a great fit for the team. I think they could spend the money better elsewhere, like they did resigning Wilfork, who's reaction has been everything you could ask for so far. Peppers doesn't bring that kind of leadership and accountability to a defense that desperately needs it.

Besides, everyone knows the Patriots don't pay.

Not really, I'd think the haters would be enjoying the streak of futility the Pats have been putting up.

Heh, most of the league would give their left nut for this kind of futility. 10 wins in a rebuilding year? 11 wins from a kid that hadn't started since high school? That's the depths of the Patriots futility? 10 wins?

 

[Brother None]

I was never really at ease with the idea of Peppers coming here for that kind of money. Patriots are in desperate need of pass rushers.

And oddly enough, there's plenty of opportunity out there for discount pass rushers, but Pats don't seem to be moving much. Which is fair enough, but it's a pretty high need, and pass rushers do not tend to peak early, if you're looking for a rookie solution.

10 wins in a rebuilding year? 11 wins from a kid that hadn't started since high school? That's the depths of the Patriots futility? 10 wins?

I thought only the playoffs mattered?

From a glance and simple historical analogy, the Pats dynasty is done, until proven otherwise.

 

[Cimmerian Nights]

And oddly enough, there's plenty of opportunity out there for discount pass rushers, but Pats don't seem to be moving much. Which is fair enough, but it's a pretty high need, and pass rushers do not tend to peak early, if you're looking for a rookie solution.

Because they already have enough value pass rushers in Banta-Cain and Burgess. What they need is an impact/playmaking 3-4 OLB, of which there was only one available.
I'd rather they make decisions with the next 3 years in mind (CBA?), then not look past next year because they might not be employed (Bears staff).

10 wins in a rebuilding year? 11 wins from a kid that hadn't started since high school? That's the depths of the Patriots futility? 10 wins?

I thought only the playoffs mattered?

From a glance and simple historical analogy, the Pats dynasty is done, until proven otherwise.

Backpedal much? Now no dynasty = futility? If that's the standard then the NFL as a whole is engineered to breed futility. The whole point of the cap and parity is to prevent that from happening.

If someone needs to know that the Patriots dynasty is dead, you need to tell the 2010 Chiefs and Browns, because they have more '01-'04 Patriots personell, coaches and scheme in place than the 2010 Patriots themselves. And they still won't win as many games combined as the new look Patriots.

Completely different team today with completely different personnel, coaching, schemes everything. As I've said before, this is rebuilding/bridge mode. And they still win 10 games a year, win their division and go to the playoffs while retooling their defense on the fly.

Where is this futility you speak of?

 

[Brother None]

Because they already have enough value pass rushers in Banta-Cain and Burgess.

The Burgess thing didn't pan out, 'cept for the Raiders now.

Backpedal much? Now no dynasty = futility?

Ain't backpedalling nowhere, but haven't you been actively pushing the viewpoint that only the playoffs matter in the end? When the Chargers spend one year out of the playoffs and the next one-and-out, would you call those futile seasons? What about the Colts?

If someone needs to know that the Patriots dynasty is dead.

No one "needs" to know it, it is simply true until the Pats prove otherwise. How many Superbowl rings does this brand new Pats staff of yours have? Exactly.

 

[Cimmerian Nights]

Backpedal much? Now no dynasty = futility?

Ain't backpedalling nowhere, but haven't you been actively pushing the viewpoint that only the playoffs matter in the end?

Only because it's a forgone conclusion here, the team should win the division or make the playoffs at the very least with the talent and coaching they have. Once you make the playoffs, the regular season means nothing beyond how you are seeded. Everyone starts tabula rasa.

What does this have to do with your original contention that the Pats existence is futile if they are not a dynasty?
You're totally backpedalling, otherwise point out the perceived futility please.

When the Chargers spend one year out of the playoffs and the next one-and-out, would you call those futile seasons? What about the Colts?

You're the one casting clouds of futility on organizations, you tell me. I don't know what you're getting at with the Chargers though, they didn't miss the playoffs, they've owned that division for years.

If someone needs to know that the Patriots dynasty is dead.

No one "needs" to know it, it is simply true until the Pats prove otherwise. How many Superbowl rings does this brand new Pats staff of yours have? Exactly.

You do evidently, because the dynasty ended 5 years ago, it exists no more, and dynasties do not ever come back. There's nothing to prove otherwise. They end, and then they are committed to posterity forever.
Dude, there is no Patriots dynasty. There aren't any dynasties at all right now, probably not anymore at all barring some major aberration like the series of events that propelled Tom Brady to a starting QB rile, or the elimination of the cap in a new CBA (reportedly one of Gene Upshaw's last wishes).

Rebuild. Bridge. Sorry dude, but are those words you thought I associated with a dynasty? When have I ever come in here waving my dick around about the Patriots dynasty? I don't, and if I've ever even referred to it, it's in the past tense. That's what it is to me. History. Glorious history. When I was a kid this team had 1 and 2 win season with no hope in sight, you've got to try harder to convince me this team is "futile".

So the dynasty ended, like every one before it. Difference being the Pats rock bottom so far hasn't dipped below a 10 win season, and you think that's futile? In the salary cap era?
Cowboys went 17 years w/o a playoff win after their dynasty, in a post free agent, pre cap era with spendthrift JJ as owner.

 

[Brother None]

You're the one casting clouds of futility on organizations, you tell me. I don't know what you're getting at with the Chargers though, they didn't miss the playoffs, they've owned that division for years.

While the specific word futile seems to bother you, it's funny how much emphasis you put on criticism of the Chargers/Colts for regular season performance vs post-season failure, yet when the Pats do it, it is not a point of criticism?

What does this have to do with your original contention that the Pats existence is futile if they are not a dynasty?
You're totally backpedalling, otherwise point out the perceived futility please.

*shrugs* I'll retract the word "futile" if it means so much to you, your hammering on the specific word seems to have made you missed my point: this is a what-have-you-done-for-me-lately league. The Pats haven't done much lately, are a team with a lot of gaping holes even for a rebuilding team, yet all you do is brag of their status as off-season champions and coaching marvels. Right now they're not even the best team in their division, so I wonder what brings on the arrogance of yours (and marvel at your self-perception of someone who doesn't wave his dick about).

 

[Cimmerian Nights]

So what's it been like living under a rock the last 9 years?

You name it, what have the Patriots failed to do in the last nine years that wouldn't put them among the greatest all time teams? Who's won more games, division titles, conference titles, SBs, TDs, points, etc. etc. ad nauseum than the Patriots in the last 9 years?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but if those records still stand, what has the rest of the league done for you lately?

I guess if you don't score 50TDs, 500 points, and win the SB year after year it's considered futile? That's a pretty high standard. If that makes the Patriots futile, what are you saying about the bottom 80th, 60th, 40th, 20th percentile of the league?

The Pats haven't done much lately

When was the last time they didn't do one of the following:
a) Win 10 games
b) Win their division
c) go to the playoffs
Seriously dude, look around the league and tell me that's futile.

yet all you do is brag of their status as off-season champions and coaching marvels.

I do? I guess you never asked me about 1st round busts like Maroney, Chad Jackson, and Ben Watson. Or lovely FA pickups like $20M a year for Adalius Thomas. By all means, presume the worst about me without asking what I think first. I never said Belichik the GM was infallible.

Right now they're not even the best team in their division

In a QB driven league, how can you possibly say this? The NFL is not a league where defensive teams can win anymore. #1 defense in the league is a joke now, because even mediocre teams can pass all over everyone. This isn't the 2000 Ravens or the '85 Bears, the new Arena League rules preclude any defensive team from ever being that good again.

 

[Brother None]

You name it, what have the Patriots failed to do in the last nine years that wouldn't put them among the greatest all time teams

Wait, last nine years? Where did I indicate that timeframe? You state they have an all-new coaching staff, schemes, personnel. So I ask again: what have these all-new factors brought you?

Seriously dude, look around the league and tell me that's futile.

Hammering on the word futile is weak when it's already been retracted. What do you think you're proving by hammering on word choice this much? How is it relevant?

I do? I guess you never asked me about 1st round busts like Maroney, Chad Jackson, and Ben Watson. Or lovely FA pickups like $20M a year for Adalius Thomas.

Don't forget going into 2009 with 5 TEs and now having zero, trading too high for Derrick Burgess and the Raiders ending up getting much better value at that pick, having no real WR depth and a looming problem if Moss goes mopey and Welker is hobbled (as he well might be), having an RB lineup consisting of a bust and a bunch of old guys, and still lacking a pass rush. Let's not mention no QB depth behind your shellshock'd QB.

It's funny how you think it's my job to ask you about the Pats failures. You randomly post to point out how much of a genius Billy is, but don't seem to have as good a grasp of the myriad failings (and seriously, the above status reports reads more like the Bills or Browns than a playoff contender). Pardon me for getting the wrong impression.
I'm rolling my eyes here.

Here's what my question boils down to: you're very arrogant and smug about the Pats. Where does this come from? In rational base, there are some good signs (including the 2009 brilliant second round from the Pats), but also too many bad signs. Is it just you being a Masshole? If so, just say so, so I can move on.

In a QB driven league, how can you possibly say this?

...Because a different team from the same division went deeper in the playoffs than the Pats did? Not exactly rocket science.

The AFC East has been a joke of a division long enough anyway. I wouldn't be too sure the Pats are capable of withstanding a serious challenge from inside the division. They were 1-1 against both the Fins and Jets last year, but who knows where that's headed?

 

[Cimmerian Nights]

Wait, last nine years? Where did I indicate that timeframe?
You state they have an all-new coaching staff, schemes, personnel. So I ask again: what have these all-new factors brought you?

B-b-b-b bridge mode. Did I stutter? You know, the period after the dynasty where most teams go into a 20 year funk?
This is not the same team that won SBs on the strength of defense with the likes of McGinest, Ted Johnson, Ty Law, Troy Brown, and Adam Vinatieri. 2 or 3 coordinators removed form that group. That ship sailed a long time ago.

Don't forget going into 2009 with 5 TEs and now having zero, trading too high for Derrick Burgess and the Raiders ending up getting much better value at that pick, having no real WR depth and a looming problem if Moss goes mopey and Welker is hobbled (as he well might be), having an RB lineup consisting of a bust and a bunch of old guys, and still lacking a pass rush. Let's not mention no QB depth behind your shellshock'd QB.

Wow, pretty comprehensive, now copy and paste the same scouting reports from the years they won it all. They are probably worse.
You don't think that in some strange conspiracy to make the team better, that the Patriots aren't going to actually find some players in the draft do you?

No TE, no FB. No problem! This is Arena football mang, not your old man's NFL. I wouldn't mind a pseudo-TE like Dallas Clark or Antonio Gates, those guys are just falling off of trees huh?

trading too high for Derrick Burgess and the Raiders ending up getting much better value at that pick,

Oh woe is the Patriots, they took a chance on a trade and it wasn't successful, that never happens in the NFL. They lost a 3rd Rd. pick in a draft where they already have 4 or 5 picks in the first 2 rounds. I'm not sure how they'll recover from this, losing a pick in a draft where they are already stocked and the pick would probably get cut anyway.
I suppose every other team in the league gets exactly what they expect out of every trade?

Dude, you're holding the Patriots to an unrealistic standard.

having no real WR depth and a looming problem if Moss goes mopey and Welker is hobbled

Compared to when they won 3 SBs with David Patten, Deion Branch and Troy Brown. Lack of depth?

having an RB lineup consisting of a bust and a bunch of old guys, and still lacking a pass rush. Let's not mention no QB depth behind your shellshock'd QB.

Ha, like the NFL would allow Brady to get injured. Besides, nobody has a pass rush anymore, it's been legislated out of the game.

You randomly post to point out how much of a genius Billy is

I never called him a genius, in fact I've expressed my distaste with the national medias penchant for doing so.
That being said, the guy has 5 Super Bowl rings, he tends to get the benefit of the doubt around here.
Beats having Pete Carroll here.

(and seriously, the above status reports reads more like the Bills or Browns than a playoff contender)

And to show that you're not just blowing smoke you'll wager how much that either of those teams wins more games next year?

...Because a different team from the same division went deeper in the playoffs than the Pats did? Not exactly rocket science.

Yeah, that makes the Jets the 3rd or 4th best team in the league! You seem to be wholly unaware of the series of fortuitous events that helped the Jets along there. Two words for you. Curtis fucking Painter.

 

[Brother None]

B-b-b-b bridge mode. Did I stutter? You know, the period after the dynasty where most teams go into a 20 year funk?

So you agree with me that the Pats have not been a playoff threat lately and don't look like they will be anytime soon?

Wow, pretty comprehensive, now copy and paste the same scouting reports from the years they won it all. They are probably worse.

And? Every team has flaws, if you win out by some fieldgoals - which would be called what, flukey? - I think it's fair enough to think you might be winning despite flaws, certainly not because of flaws.

Are you saying the Pats are guaranteed to get by with gaping holes just because they did it early in the Naughties?

This is Arena football mang, not your old man's NFL.

You mean 6th-lineman blocking TEs never have a function. Huh. Your football insight is certainly growing. Grrrlulz.

Dude, you're holding the Patriots to an unrealistic standard.

Not at all, I'm criticizing failed FA trades, which the Pats have a lot of lately. Do I comparatively give the Hawks leeway for, I dunno, the idiotic Deion Branch trade? Nope. Same standards.

Ha, like the NFL would allow Brady to get injured.

Are you seriously claiming QBs simply won't get injured anymore? They won't "allow" it? What are they going to do, replace him by a robot if he tears an ACL?

I never called him a genius, in fact I've expressed my distaste with the national medias penchant for doing so.

You seem to harp on specific words a lot. Why?

Beats having Pete Carroll here.

For sure. The Hawks FO has a long history of futility and the PC hire and power-grant smells like a desperation play that'll likely fail.

This has what to do with the Pats exactly?

And to show that you're not just blowing smoke you'll wager how much that either of those teams wins more games next year?

I don't know who'll do what next year. All I know is the Pats look like a troubled franchise in many areas, and it's up to them to prove they can maintain any level of success.
If you're happy with a one-and-out team, awesome. Good for you.

Yeah, that makes the Jets the 3rd or 4th best team in the league! You seem to be wholly unaware of the series of fortuitous events that helped the Jets along there.

I'm well aware, but do you know of a better, objective measure of team quality than their final rankings following the post-season?

Besides, who cares how the Jets got into the playoffs? The Pats got annihilated in a game in which they looked like an old, failing team. The Jets looked young, energized and ran their D deep into the play-offs (an impossibility according to you, but they did it). I hate the Jets and have nothing against the Pats (other than you being their fan), but ignoring the franchise names, I would certainly have higher hopes for the Jets than the Pats next year.

<hr>

Back on topic (maybe we should have separate NFL and Patriots threads), the Hawks off-season has now officially gone from "eh" to "what the fuck are they thinking?"

- Letting Burleson walk when you have no WR depth
- Cutting Deon Grant, who started 48 games at SS over the past 3 years, with no heir apparent on the roster
- Trading Wallace, fine. Trading Wallace for chump change, stupid.
- Trading promising young DE Tapp for significantly less promising and less young DE Chris Clemson and a fourth. Tapp was an absolute fan darling too, only thing worse would be trading Forsett or Mebane
- Meanwhile sitting pat only clearly useless, expensive players (Deon Branch, Kerney, Hasselbeck (but he should stay, as a security blanket, only has one year left in his contract anyway), Julius Jones, Kelly Jennings)

Standard seems to be: useful veterans can go, promising youth can be lowball traded, expensive useless shits should stay.

At least they're mostly minor moves (though Grant and Tapp were pencilled in as starters), but all they're doing is creating more holes in an already needy team. Talk about regressing. They'd better come up with an ace draft.