TheGM
The voice of reason
Don't you see Brady that Capitalism is bad because COAL. I'm from *area* that means I am an expert on the subject.
Notes on Fallout TV (Return to the Nolanverse complete, Review notes complete)
- Thread starter Bradylama
- Start date
Bradylama
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
TheGM
The voice of reason
Sure my EVIL schemes have rendered my sums of material and fiat wealth completely useless. Because I will use Human Suffering as the currency now! See the biggest investment of this new capital was the war itself because despite having all the money, wealth and power with no government oversight, if I reset everything back to year zero I can end up in a worse situation than I was before but IT MAKES SENSE IN CONTEXT!
Also I will ignore the fact the Sierra Madre and Big Mt have matter replicators totally ending my resources needs.
I will also ignore the fact that Vault-Tec has the Genesis device from Star Trek II.
Also I will ignore the fact the Sierra Madre and Big Mt have matter replicators totally ending my resources needs.
I will also ignore the fact that Vault-Tec has the Genesis device from Star Trek II.
CT Phipps
Carbon Dated and Proud
I say EXPERIENCE means NOTHING in a loud voice on INTERNET. Thus FUNNY and satire means guy wrong!
Seriously, though, the assumptions of people giving a shit are kind of hilarious.
But I conceded anyway. There's not enough world building for explaining Vault-Tec;s reasoning even if I find RL corporations fully capable of burning the forest to save it.
Hawkwing74
It Wandered In From the Wastes
All the other stupid shit he did like start 2 MIC-profit wars and shred privacy with the Patriot Act and the like and you're going to bash him for that? I am not even sure how you would quantify that statement. Which pollution are we talking about? Meme idiocy.
CT Phipps
Carbon Dated and Proud
I can bust him for everything stupid he did. What I'm saying is that rich powerful oil heir and politician don't give shits about environment.
Not exactly a revelation of the Lovecraftian SAN blasting variety.
TheGM
The voice of reason
It is actually an acronym. Capitalists Oppressing American Liberties.
Bradylama
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
You just don't understand the objectives of capital. Burning the forest to save it is a common method of forestry to help control forest fires before conditions get too bad to control. When capitalists burn forests it's to clear it for cultivation or land development. Most importantly, capitalists don't live in the forest like squirrels, so it's not as if they're burning their own homes down. Which is the literal thing that Vault-Tec is doing in the TV show.
You're trying too hard to make sense of a system inherently at odds with itself. You think that capitalists collude with each other as a class rather than as cartels, and that the conflict capitalism operates on means that individual capitalists act against their own interests. No. Basic Marxist theory states that capitalists are at odds with each other because they act consistently in their individual interests. This results in an acceleration of contradictions within capitalism, not the resolution of contradictions through some kind of class collaboration. The fascists tried forcing class collusion between proletarians and capitalists, and it failed. Those contradictions can only be overcome through a revolutionary restructuring of society.
What we see in the show is not capitalists acting consistently in their own interests under competitive pressure to overcome their market rivals, what we see is capitalists destroying capitalism so they can do Nazi experiments in metal caves. You keep harping on everything that extractive industries have done to Appalachia, but you don't understand that at the end of the day the coal and oil companies are reproducing capitalism. Everything they do reifies the system, whereas starting a thermonuclear war is as unreproductive as it gets.
CT Phipps
Carbon Dated and Proud
I think shitty capitalism is a major problem in America because people destroy the restrictions that make it profitable. They're too worried about high stock prices versus sustainable growth and actually building something valuable in the long term.
Trade and economics need the government as an intermediary.
Which reflects the heart of our disagreement: I think Marxism is fucking stupid.
Bradylama
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
You literally share the worldview of the showrunners.
CT Phipps
Carbon Dated and Proud
I admit given the later seasons of Westworld, you may well have destroyed me here.
*bows*
If something is stated by "basic Marxist theory", you can just assume it to be wrong.
Bradylama
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
That's funny, because you're not disagreeing with it.
One, because I haven't even said anything about it, and Two, well, it's not really a Marxist observation, it's just what capitalism is. I guess even Marxist theory can't get basic definitions wrong (not for lack of trying, but I guess when it suits them they're occasionally at least not lying). Glorious. Now, yes, I do want fries with that.
Bradylama
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
Marxism is ultimately nothing more than the study of actually existing capitalism.
TheGM
The voice of reason
Marxism is gay and retarded.
Hawkwing74
It Wandered In From the Wastes
When are we getting our proletarian revolution followed by classless society? Seems always some distance out just like the end of the world from climate change.
As if any humans could ever have a classless society.
Bradylama
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
Sure, it's better to just cynically accept everything as it is and continue circling the drain of the liberal historical cycle, constantly repeating massacre after massacre as the franchise of the "free" constantly expands and contracts. These anticommunist platitudes are as stale as a box of instamash. Right now China is the world's foremost burgeoning capitalist power because they're Marxist, while Europe and the United States continue trying to sit on old arrangements made during the Cold War for sucking up the material wealth of the Global South. We've recreated the wars of the 20th century in Ukraine and Gaza for the same reasons that the world wars were fought a century ago.
Whether it's through resource shortages, ecological disaster, imperial rivalries, or petty nationalist grudges, we're still well on the way to apocalypse. We learned nothing from the failures of modernity.
Whether it's through resource shortages, ecological disaster, imperial rivalries, or petty nationalist grudges, we're still well on the way to apocalypse. We learned nothing from the failures of modernity.
Ehmm.. When did this turn into the Pol thread?
Bradylama
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
The political content of the show is where it ultimately falls flat, so it's an unavoidable issue. The showrunners present a kind of liberal anti-politics which they consider non-ideological, which is the most ideological you can be.