Perception will now control pickpocketing... how do you feel?

While I am angry about how Bethesda has interpreted Fallout, I can accept their homage to the intent of the VaulT-tec videos.



Jump to 5 minutes 09 seconds, because the link doesn't for some reason. The S.P.E.C.I.A.L. teaser videos capture the BS designed by the original creators.
 
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Perception makes more sense for lockpicking than agility to be fair. Agility doesn't really mean dexterity in a lot of cases, but perception seems to have picked that up, probably relating to both how you can sense something (Be it seeing farther away on your radar or feeling/hearing/noticing the tumblers of a lock as u are picking it) and somewhat now to finer motor control I'd think rather than how strong or fast you are. Also perception just needed a boost in the 3D games anyway, might as well do it when you've gutted the system this far.
 
The_Time_Master said:
This is an interesting divergence on the reliance on the Agility stat used in all other games. What do you think?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vw2...outube.com/watch?v=Vw21X2jKwCM&has_verified=1
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Won't change much, I think. Bethesda's games very heavily favor stealth classes with the AI's ten second alert periods, abundence of long range weaponry, etc., etc., and most of the stealth skills are under that column.

Them making critical shots dependent on a refilling bar? That will reduce AGI's usefulness, but if the shooting is touchy, AGI won't be as downplayed from how many default to VATS to make their shots for them.
 
AgentBJ09 said:
The_Time_Master said:
This is an interesting divergence on the reliance on the Agility stat used in all other games. What do you think?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vw2...outube.com/watch?v=Vw21X2jKwCM&has_verified=1
Click to expand...

Won't change much, I think. Bethesda's games very heavily favor stealth classes with the AI's ten second alert periods, abundence of long range weaponry, etc., etc., and most of the stealth skills are under that column.

Them making critical shots dependent on a refilling bar? That will reduce AGI's usefulness, but if the shooting is touchy, AGI won't be as downplayed from how many default to VATS to make their shots for them.
Click to expand...

Basically the only stat that matters is endurance.
 
Walpknut said:
That's why it was a bad idea to mix Steal with Sneak in the first place.
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It's also a weakness of tying one skill inextricably to one attribute. There are applications of both sneak and steal that should depend on perception (e.g. avoiding cameras/cracking safes) and others that should depend on agility (traversing rough terrain silently/picking pockets.)

Ideally the system would be versatile enough to have different skills depend on different stats, and that this can't happen in Fo4 because there aren't skills is more of a travesty than what state each activity is tied to.
 
I have always said that Sneak and Lockpicking needed a lot of rework, but now they have become even more primitive.
 
Dr Fallout said:
Walpknut said:
I have always said that Sneak and Lockpicking needed a lot of rework, but now they have become even more primitive.
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Why have sneak when it sucks?
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I don't know whether you've invested in a stealth character in FONV, but 100 Sneak, Silent Running, Tunnel Runner, Travel Light, Implant M-5, and you're practically a poltergeist in the base game. The DLC is a different situation due to the their NPCs' extreme line of sight perception. A stealth, melee character also allows for the fastest way in the game to get caps:

Ask Red Lucy to fight the maximum number of deathclaws (3), and when you're in the arena, wait for the deathclaws to come out. They won't even notice you of course. Then get behind them with even Chance's Knife or Bloodnap, and queue three attacks in VATS, one for each deathclaw. Three hits is all it takes because they're all sneak attack criticals, and 500 caps is yours. Ask Red Lucy again, and repeat.
 
Practicat said:
Dr Fallout said:
Walpknut said:
I have always said that Sneak and Lockpicking needed a lot of rework, but now they have become even more primitive.
Click to expand...

Why have sneak when it sucks?
Click to expand...

I don't know whether you've invested in a stealth character in FONV, but 100 Sneak, Silent Running, Tunnel Runner, Travel Light, Implant M-5, and you're practically a poltergeist in the base game. The DLC is a different situation due to the their NPCs' extreme line of sight perception. A stealth, melee character also allows for the fastest way in the game to get caps:

Ask Red Lucy to fight the maximum number of deathclaws (3), and when you're in the arena, wait for the deathclaws to come out. They won't even notice you of course. Then get behind them with even Chance's Knife or Bloodnap, and queue three attacks in VATS, one for each deathclaw. Three hits is all it takes because they're all sneak attack criticals, and 500 caps is yours. Ask Red Lucy again, and repeat.
Click to expand...

I'm sure Dr Fallout meant that stealth is too easy in Beth games. Like Skyrim when using bow and arrows on even the highest difficulty exploiting stealth is hilariously easy.
 
MercenarySnake said:
Practicat said:
Dr Fallout said:
Walpknut said:
I have always said that Sneak and Lockpicking needed a lot of rework, but now they have become even more primitive.
Click to expand...

Why have sneak when it sucks?
Click to expand...

I don't know whether you've invested in a stealth character in FONV, but 100 Sneak, Silent Running, Tunnel Runner, Travel Light, Implant M-5, and you're practically a poltergeist in the base game. The DLC is a different situation due to the their NPCs' extreme line of sight perception. A stealth, melee character also allows for the fastest way in the game to get caps:

Ask Red Lucy to fight the maximum number of deathclaws (3), and when you're in the arena, wait for the deathclaws to come out. They won't even notice you of course. Then get behind them with even Chance's Knife or Bloodnap, and queue three attacks in VATS, one for each deathclaw. Three hits is all it takes because they're all sneak attack criticals, and 500 caps is yours. Ask Red Lucy again, and repeat.
Click to expand...

I'm sure Dr Fallout meant that stealth is too easy in Beth games. Like Skyrim when using bow and arrows on even the highest difficulty exploiting stealth is hilariously easy.
Click to expand...

Exactly. It's too overpowered and easy. I just stealthed everywhere in Skyrim and Fallout 3.
 
Dr Fallout said:
Exactly. It's too overpowered and easy. I just stealthed everywhere in Skyrim and Fallout 3.
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I don't think that this is necessarily bad though. Like when you actually play it, combat in Fallout 3 and Skyrim is bad so you'll have more fun with the game if you make it as trivial as possible so you can get to those parts of the game which are not the worst parts of that game. Like by far the best way to play Skyrim is stealth archery, since every combat ends almost immediately so you can just wander around and look at stuff.

Now obviously "good combat" is better than "stealth renders combat trivial" but "you can rend combat trivial' is a workable solution to "bad combat."
 
PossibleCabbage said:
Dr Fallout said:
Exactly. It's too overpowered and easy. I just stealthed everywhere in Skyrim and Fallout 3.
Click to expand...

I don't think that this is necessarily bad though. Like when you actually play it, combat in Fallout 3 and Skyrim is bad so you'll have more fun with the game if you make it as trivial as possible so you can get to those parts of the game which are not the worst parts of that game. Like by far the best way to play Skyrim is stealth archery, since every combat ends almost immediately so you can just wander around and look at stuff.

Now obviously "good combat" is better than "stealth renders combat trivial" but "you can rend combat trivial' is a workable solution to "bad combat."
Click to expand...

That's true but I don't find over-powered stealth fun. A crime punishable by death right?
 
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