Practice makes perfect

[zegh8578]

Still practicing, and I'm still sticking to a very specific future world scenario I got in mind.

Here are various scenarios, where I practice a variety of things, such as geometry, composition, anatomy, and so on. Feel free to comment, make observations, any constructivism is welcome, since I seek to only get better yall :0

Future insurgents use cellphones. There are satellites in the post-apo world as well. At least a few!

"Goddamned!"

"but for... "

Bath

Megalomaniac conquerer girl in "formal" raptor-themed outfit, getting ready to meet the eager crowds

 

[Gizmojunk]

You already have a nice grasp of layout and where to put detail.

The foreshortened forearm, hand, and pistol are drawn [seemingly] at regular scale, but they would have appeared closer ~bigger; in front of the face. Even the barrel would look bigger than normal relative to the handle, from that perspective.

The position of using the right arm to shoot around a right corner ~while peeking around the right, seems very unnatural, and awkward to shoot from.

 

[zegh8578]

Thanks, something as simple as perspective gets to me some times, like the aim-at-the-camera panel you refer to. I was also pointed out that I should have shrunk the reflection of her in the mirror with a couple of percentages, which is also true

 

[zegh8578]

Inability to edit old posts "forces" me to bump this thread, instead of making a new one, which is just as well, because I should probably gather my shit in a single thread anyway (especially since it's not Fallout related, but I find that doodles and stuff fit best in this subforum anyway)

I give you, the first draft of Grong

He has been created by magic, no more, no less
In "my universe" it still is a bit complicated, since magic at will still depends on your understanding of a concept. To conjur a whole person, you need to understand every single bit of material composition of humans.
Atomically, we are made of... well... atoms arranged!
A skilled magician will be able to learn atoms - learn molecules - and then "like bicycling" attach this knowledge to their will or "intuition", and use atoms in their surroundings to create new objects, including living things.
A super-skilled magician will be able to create atoms themselves, from the sub-atomic particles their surrounding atoms are allready made of
Obviously, none of this is really possible, or we'd all be magicians, so... let it go >:I
In my setting, all magic is essentially various degrees of telekinesis - you simply move atoms, or sub-atomic particles. A noob magician will simply dissolve an object into a cloud of particles, while a skilled one will move objects without destroying them.
(I have yet to really solidify a lot of these rules)

Grong was created from scratch, allready adult, and with the very specific purpose of being a bodyguard/henchman/companion
Because of the fairly limited skill of the magician, he is slightly sub-par intellectually, and in the story I plan for him to often use masks, that will camouflage the most damning aspects of his appearance

(In fact, the chick in the mirror pic is his creator, and since we're in early planning stages, I have simply moved my mask-fixation from her, to him. I might have them both wear masks, for that matter, since he is closely associated with her, but I'm not entirely sure about that yet)

Both in real life - and in the story - Grong is named after a Norwegian municipality that consists almost entirely of trees (in fact, their coat of arms is just a tree)
The line above the o means nothing, it's futurism and it looks fancy.

I really need to get started with character designs. Not only do I have to design them, but I also have to "get to know" them, by drawing them several times.

 

[zegh8578]

Goddamnit, why is there such a limit on editing posts!?
Re-posting Grong:

Practice page:

Panel by panel translation seems a bit redundant, but "nei, ikke - " = "no, don't - ", "jo" = "yes" (a "negating confirmation" of sorts - that car is NOT blue - YES it is. Don't kill me! YES I will!)

Seriously though, I'm serial-posting like a dickhead here, when I could have simply edited a single post, as I keep adding more stuff
What is the time-limit for editing anyway?

 

[alec]

Good stuff, zegh, but for some reason I can't see half of the images you posted. I really like the practice comic page you did, but I do have some remarks about it:

[1] She doesn't look all that scared, to be honest. And that goes for all panels, even the fourth one (where I see what you did, but I'm not sure whether I'm liking it). Google Image "cartoon expressions" and check how you can tweak the eyes, eyebrows and mouth to really show fear. I understand your style is more realistic than Disney or Peanuts, but expressions are pretty much always exaggerated in comics because they convey key information on how to interpret the panel/the page.

[2] In the last panel I can see the moon and the night sky, but the trees and grass look as if it's a sunny day. Consider shading the foliage by crosshatching or by using a duotone. Your drawings are too complex to limit yourself to just B&W and some rare crosshatching. You'll need to add hatching/crosshatching/stippling to your repertoire or you'll have to start using color. The last panel of the comic page clearly shows that, imo.

[3] Your linework is flat and messy and looks grey rather than black. Do you use fineliners/markers? And am I right to assume you tend to go over the same line more than once now and then? At least try to avoid the latter, because it fucks up one's linework. Think before you ink: ink the line in your mind before you actually ink it. I constantly move my page around to see how I can ink a line in one go without having to contort my fingers/hand/wrist. A fluid line is a dynamic line and it breathes life into your drawing. A jagged/fuzzy line does the opposite of that. Have you considered inking with a classic pen nib (like the popular G pen) or a brush and India ink? Your lines will really become alive because these tools allow you to vary the width of a line by applying more or less pressure to the tip. And the India ink is as black as black gets which really shows when your work gets scanned/reproduced.

I still really love your work, though. If I'm sounding harsh and critical, then it's because I see a very coherent style that just needs that extra bit of practice and skill to look mature and professional. But you're damn close, zegh.

 

[TorontoReign]

Listen to this man Zegh! Yeah, some of those images aren't showing up and you need to post more of your work. I thought you only drew dinosaurs.

 

[zegh8578]

no, I know, those are good advice
I am still working my way towards how I'm gonna do the faces, I'm a bit all over the place as I sketch along. I want to balance between a fairly realistic style, while also allowing a good deal of cartoony elasticity
I am strongly considering ditching line-shadowing, in favor of pencil shadowing, and I am still a complete noob when it comes to really utilizing black contrast shadowing. I've sortof planned for future doodles to incorporate pencil, but I wonder how clever it is, in terms of time spent with each panel, if I also dedicate myself to pencil-shading entire surfaces :I
But yeah I appreciate the advice because I know it's relevant, they're all points I know I struggle with. I drew tons of (lame little) comics as a kid, then abandoned it for dino-drawings, and now I'm trying to catch up

and Toront, I have drawn... thousands of dinosaurs, thousands, my whole life, on and off, it's been a while since last, but another one is due soon. But apart from that, I've always had an interest in comic stuff, and long tried to tend to my own style. Here, "Mickey Man"

I also made this some time ago, on Paint

Spoiler

 

[zegh8578]

Bump

Buildings, getting aquainted with facial designs, clothes, black hair practice, shadows, black fabric, feel free to input!
As for the line work, Alec is (still) completely right, and I plan to do another major visit at an art shop and see what pens I can find, that are more cooperative than fineliners (which I still consider valuable, but as secondary tools, detailing and such)

 

[Brivoo]

I really like your stuff, particularly the effort you put into the details and for some reason especially the water effect in the bath picture. If I had to give some advice, it'd be this:

-Proportions seem a bit off; I don't know if it's intentional, but given the general style I'll assume it's not. Keep in mind that an adult person is about eight times the height of their head (itself included) and that legs tend to make up half of that.

-Your faces lack cheekbones, and as a result kind of look painted on when viewed from a 3/4 angle. Remember to give them curves, and that these varies depending on the angle; eyebrow, cheekbone, nose, chin, jaw, etc. are all factors, especially when shadows become involved.

-Coming back to proportions real quick, some of the heads are kind of weird in that regard. Though it can vary and is by no means a rule, generally speaking a woman's shoulder span is two times her head and a half, whilst a generic muscular man is three or so. Again, it can vary, and I personally prefer a cartoonish style so I don't even abide to this, but keep that in mind.

Now, some nitpicks:

-The second panel with the child holding out the gun from behind a corner is very good in details and geometry (I also like the minimal shadow you added at his feet, makes him feel present) but I find it could have been presented better as a shot. The proportions aren't wrong per se, but it's usually a comic rule-of-thumb to give such panels a centred view, making the gun bigger and more prominent at the front. You did, however, pull off the old man absorbing the child page brilliantly, so it's probably not even worth mentioning.

-I really admire your silhouetted backgrounds and general geometry, particularly in the picture with the masks; however, I was slightly bothered by the knife on the bed, as its awkward angle and lying on a crease made it feel like it was added onto the picture without any real presence. Again, this is just a nitpick.

Overall, I am very impressed with this whole series of drawings and won't even pretend like I can draw to this standard. My general advice would be for you to practice presentation in your comics a bit, but otherwise you're golden.

 

[zegh8578]

Heh, I am aware of the ideal head ratio, I often tried to make sure it fit, but in the end I'm landing on a general 1/6 instead of 1/8.
1/8 feels a tad bit too realistic, bringing the style into "marvel/dc"-realm, I'm not entirely comfortable with it, but I probably should move more towards 1/7 at least.
I often find myself re-adjusting proportions, sometimes in each sketch, as I am still in the process of designing the characters.

One of the things that often haunt me, is the length of arms and legs... of all things, something that simple, causes me to always physically measure myself... I am amazed some times, how difficult something that simple can be: I have seen human arms my entire life - suddenly I don't know how long they're supposed to be! Wtf!

You are absolutely right about the faces, and lately I find myself observing faces in movies and such, just to force-feed myself with impressions of the variations encountered. Stuff taken for granted (like the lenght of a human arm... ), that I have to now really get into my head! Eyebrows, for example - some people have a rather flat eyebrow, others got much more of a prominent ridge. All individual variations I want to be more aware of, and utilize.

Thanks a much for the comments!

 

[Brivoo]

Your arm ratio's fine actually; they reach as far down as they should (roughly three quarters down the thigh); it's just the legs that make it look weird.

I agree with what you said about realism, and I imagine that with your particular style it would look very much like Marvel/DC, as you mentioned. Perhaps you could stylize your drawings a bit more and then the head's proportions wouldn't look as out of place.

I've also noticed all your characters seem to have the same nose except for Mickey Man and Grong. Was that intentional?

 

[zegh8578]

No, and I've heard this before, I should be more aware of my noses. I think to myself that I am varying them, and the slight variations I give are noticeable to me, but clearly are not varied enough.
The old man chasing her is supposed to have like a big, beak-shaped nose.

Faces in general are still a process, because I am struggling to balance a certain realism, with a comedic elasticity. I have yet to find the balance, and even more so for the protagonist, where I need to balance both a generic cuteness / a generic "blank-slate"-ness / comedic elasticity that allows for some mild abuse

 

[alec]

I plan to do another major visit at an art shop and see what pens I can find, that are more cooperative than fineliners (which I still consider valuable, but as secondary tools, detailing and such)

Ask for Hunt (USA), Speedball (USA) or Brause (Germany) pen nibs. Brause Bandzug nibs are great for lettering.

Thanks to the popularity of manga in the west, a lot of art stores are now selling 'manga pen nibs'. These are usually pretty cheap, but really decent. A famous one is the G-pen (a flexible nib for long lines)), but they also have Maru-pens and simple Schoolpen nibs. The last ones aren't very flexible, but they still give your line a varying weight depending on how hard you push while inking. I've been using these Schoolpens a lot lately, they're ideal for the size I generally work at (which is relatively small).

The general rule is: if you have a heavy hand while drawing, opt for a pen nib that isn't very flexible. You test this by pushing the tip of the nib gently down on a hard surface: if the tip splits easily, you get a flexible pen that needs a light hand.

The first time you use a pen nib, you need to remove a thin (invisible) layer of oil that the manufacturer sprays on the nibs to prevent rusting. Remove it by moving the tip of the pen briefly through the flame of a lighter. You won't actually see a change. In fact: if you do see a change (a discoloration of the metal) you've overheated the pen nib, usually destroying its flexibility. You could also put the pen nibs in boiling water to remove the oil, or use some spit and rub it on the nib. I'm serious.

If your pen nibs get clogged with India ink (which they will do eventually), use ethanol/methanol to remove the dried up ink.

You should also consider inking with a brush. A brush is the best inking tool, but it's a lot harder to master than a pen. I like working with sable brushes, size 1 and 2. They're more expensive than pen nibs and need more care, but the variation in line weight is much much bigger: you can get both thinner and thicker lines with a brush.

I still use fineliners as well, but I usually regret it once I see the finished product. Fineliners are good for sketchbook drawings, but when I draw something meant for reproduction (in whatever form) I usually force myself to use the old tools: pens, brushes and black India ink on a nice piece of Bristol or Steinbach paper. It's probably a fetish of mine.

I'm a tad disappointed in the modern versions of old drawing tools. Those pretty popular Pentel brush pens, for example: sure, they're handy and sure, you get a very versatile line out of them, but the minute you compare them to an old school sable brush, they look like something made for children: not very precise and lacking in subtlety, but very durable (I still use the same one I got for Christmas as a teenager and not one synthetic hair is out of shape!).

Meh, I'm ranting. You probably already know all this stuff anyway ...

 

[zegh8578]

No, I appreciate the tips because I'm not very familiar with the actual tools.
I even tried asking in the art shop once, but the shop owner got stumped or something, as if what I asked was profoundly silly, like "you probably need... pens... and paper? :0"

That brush-pen looks interesting also
Actual brushes seem terrifying, one of those hairs stand sideways, and poof, you get a little bonus paralel line

 

[aenemic]

Really nice work. I especially like your clean but detailed backgrounds.

A bit more shading, especially in the characters, would add more depth and perspective though.

 

[zegh8578]

Really nice work. I especially like your clean but detailed backgrounds.

A bit more shading, especially in the characters, would add more depth and perspective though.

Thanks a lot!
I am considering shading with pencil added as an element later on, when I feel safer about some of the other elements (like anatomy and inking)

I am still unsure wether to go with pencil or gray ink. The latter I have zero experience with, but both sound kind of risky to mix into an ink medium

*(bump and self-merge!)*

3rd day of practicing and getting used to brush pens. It bothers me a bit that I have to be so very very feather light with my hand when I use these. I'm now seriously considering nibs, which used to intimidate me a bit, untill I begun to wonder if they can really be more challenging than these brush pens

I've also tested gray scale filt pens, I only got 3 grays for now, I need plenty more. They are good at remedying black-shine issues (see the stripe on her shirt) as well as giving "hair-colors"

motif is protagonist "godlet" girl, with 3 pirate leaders, Rassbjørn*, Sabeltann** and Kåre Kuk***

* pun on the name "Asbjørn", often made fun of for alluding to "ass". Changed to "rassbjørn" because "rass" actually does mean "ass"
** a well known Norwegian TV pirate for children, doing live shows at the Zoo-park in the south of the country
*** simply means "Kåre Cock" I was running out of ideas. They're pirates. They need piratey names!

 

[Gizmojunk]

If you can find them [they are very hard to find], get a set of Marsgraphic 3000 Duo Watercolor Brush Markers
~black [#9] brush pens by Staedtler.

*The best brush pens you can get; but Staedtler doesn't sell them anymore. The gray set is superb... but also discontinued.

If you find some, you can refill them with inkjet printer ink.

 

[zegh8578]

Bumpstravaganza

Armored car, APC and towed artillery. Pretty straight forward practice. All are based almost directly
on current, existing models.

Off road motorcycle, civilian two door car, bus, all are based directly on existing models. The motorcycle
is meant as a military scout tool.

Jetfighters and a pilot. The second jetfighter is based on futuristic concepts, the first is current.

Futuristic concepts based on futuristic concepts (the latter is an IFV) To be clear, these are in no way finished designs to be used in my story, but practice pieces for me to get aquainted with the kind of design choices prevalent in military and civilian hardware.

Mounted infantry (which would be the same as cavalry, I reckon), a highrise and lowrise tenement block, and a Korean-copied propaganda-smile (I gave it a "western" style cap, instead of the soviet style)

3 ships and a missile. Self explanatory. Ships are all closely based on very recent models, in order to convey futuristicness

Futuristic airplane (whale-shaped), futuristic tank (based directly on the new Polish MBT) and 3 ships

Almost done...

1st soldier is a North American trooper, from Utah, at this time called Zion, home of the world conquering Mormons. Second is a Saharian trooper, from the "Trans Saharan Federation" a major energy exporter. Third is a Norwegian trooper, from one of several fragmented and warring factions, with his wintery poof ball hat, heisann!

Civilian one door car, modern (but not mag-lev) train, and a very futuristic submarine based on a model/concept found while googling.

First gun based on "Kriss Vector", BB MP33 based on "Borz", the rest based loosely on real and fictious models. "Zoinko" is a fun-pun on Chinese producer "Norinco" (Northern Industrial Corporation, changed to Zonguo Industrial Korporation)

Lastly, handguns are based pretty much directly on modern guns, "Faucon Gris" loosely based on CZ Scorpion, PMP2B loosely on Uzi/Mp7, TSFIB loosely on FN P90, BR556A1 loosely on SA 80, Zelanie loosely on G3/Cetme/Galil/Kalashnikov and the final is entirely of my own and is supposed to be a "laser rifle" (used by the war-mongering, fearsome Mormons)

 

[Richard A. Cortez]

Best shit ever

You are my hero