Sessler's Soapbox On Fanboyism

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It Wandered In From the Wastes
Majority of it is about the DIII fans, but he does include Fallout 3 and even Windwaker.

Sessler's Soapbox: Diablo III's Flaming Fanboys
Posted by Jonathan Hunt - Wednesday, August 13, 2008 4:33 PM

Sure, we may bitch about Lucas ruining Star Wars, or Link going cute and cuddly with Wind Waker, but when does our fanboy bitching cross the line? At what point do we need to accept that the song doesn't remain the same and that change is inevitable?

In this week's Sessler's Soapbox, Adam tackles the recent criticism over Blizzard's bright and colorful art scheme for the highly anticipated Diablo III.

He also wants to hear your thoughts on the matter. Should we rant and rave about a game betraying us simply because its different from its predecessor? Check out the video and let us know what you think or share your thoughts on our forums.
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Is the Fallout community being just babies because of the changes that Bethesda did? Adam did make a good few points. Should game developers should bow down to the fanboys?

Are you all afraid of change?
 
This is just moronic.

It's not that we shouldn't have any input into the making of the game. What Adam is forgetting is that the reason Diablo is popular, and that Blizzard exists, is that people spent their money on a product. Blizzard does owe something to the fans, because they wouldn't exist without them. Simple as that.

As for change, to simply claim that people here at NMA are "afraid of change" means you haven't actually read what we dislike about FO3.

I'm not afraid of change. I just don't like mediocre games. FO3 is simply mediocre.
 
Is the Fallout community being just babies because of the changes that Bethesda did? Adam did make a good few points. Should game developers should bow down to the fanboys?

Are you all afraid of change?
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I can pretty much respond on that one that 'change' has become a buzz word.
Every time they say 'change' they mean it is an improvement for the better.

To be frank, this incredible bullshit.
I have seen quite some 'changes' in game franchises over the year and to me 'change' pretty much means 'we want to reach more gamers' wallets, and we will sell out big time if we have too.

Quit honestly I think the game developers who keep whining about 'change' can fuck themselves.
Hardly anyone has any creativity other than coming up with gimmicks to appeal to the most average gamer.
 
Change does not mean improvement...seriously, why cannot people understand. Nothing wrong with improvement or progress, but "changes" made to fallout 3 were not improvements compared to earlier games, Fallout and Fallout 2...unless you consider badly written story and awfull dialogue progress, or lack internal realism progress. The way SPECIAL was implemented should make it clear to anyone, the points you put to stats don't matter that much anymore. Character skill means less as you can hit most enemies even on low skill levels for a small dmg penalty. And you can't really make your character as unique as in Fallout, if i tagged non-combat skills only in Fallout, than i couldn't fight at all..this has changed in fallout 3..but is it an "improvement" ?
 
D3 fans should be glad they kept the top down view of the original, 'cause Bethesda would have made it a FP hack&slash pronto.
Personally, I like the new look of D3. And I like how they want to implement more actual role-playing (or so I've heard). It's the only game I'm looking forward to, in fact.

Change can be a good thing, true, but if you change not only the looks of a game but also the whole mechanics, I think fans should have every reason to complain.

A different colour palette in a sequel I can live with.
A whole different game as a sequel is a whole different story.
 
There is a diffrence between bitching and having the right to complain. If you can't understand why Fallout fans are pissed off by Bethesda, then you should have really thought about it before starting a thread like this.

Let me draw you a picture.

You are 50 years old and are driving a 30 year old Caddillac with serious engine problems, making shitloads of stinking fumes and loosing body parts on the way to you workplace. Your son, who is, let's say 30 years old, decides to scrap your car overnight and leave a new one on your parking lot. He tries his best and he meets your taste more or less, but it's not the same. You're sad, because you lost the car you've had for all your life, but you know it is for the better and he had good intentions. To complain here would be bitching.

Now picture this. Same situation, but you have a 10 years old Mercedes in a good shape. It doesn't quite fit the other, modern cars on the street, but it drives like a charm and you love it for what it is. Then, one day your daughter decides to scrap your car overnight and leave a new one on your parking lot. The thing is, the new car is a bright pink Jeep Cherokee with fluffy seats, 20 inch rims and a "Pussy Wagon" sign on the hood. Oh, and lots of flowers here and there.Why did she choose this one? Because that's the car SHE would like to have. Or because that's what her friends are driving. Wouldn't you be pissed in this kind of situation?

I hope you understand what I am trying to say here.

Edit - some minor changes
 
I like how Adam tossed around words like arrogant and narcissistic to try and make what he was saying sound better. He came off as a ass though, because those words were really hyperboles in this situation. Nobody is arrogant because they like an IP and want to see it continue to be the background of good games as it had been. I had a lot of fun with Wind Waker and I'll probably get as much enjoyment out of D3 as I did with D2. I cannot say the same for Fallout 3, for reasons most everyone here is familiar with.

Unfortunately, it does irk to me an extent that this happened. Its not just a case of "Oh this game is bad I won't play it." Its an entire IP falling into a mediocrity that it likely will never escape. Look at the new J.J. Abrams Star Trek film. The trailer is complete shit. It doesn't even try to emulate the quality's that made Star Trek what it is. And this could be the very thing that kills the franchise. Just like Fallout 3 and subsequent games are going to be the nails in Fallout's coffin.
 
Infernaeus said:
Its an entire IP falling into a mediocrity that it likely will never escape. Look at the new J.J. Abrams Star Trek film. The trailer is complete shit. It doesn't even try to emulate the quality's that made Star Trek what it is. And this could be the very thing that kills the franchise. Just like Fallout 3 and subsequent games are going to be the nails in Fallout's coffin.
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Yet, some say the orginal IP got too old and it had to die off. Look at Enterprise, Insurrection, and Nemesis. They died because trek gotten too old.
 
To think that the fanboys of the world are beholden to him is preposterous, arrogant, narcissistic and downright stupid. If he doesn't like that people complain he should stop lurking on their forums.

Also, as others have mentioned, change isn't necessarily a good thing, contrary to what this guy seems to think.

Btw, am I wrong or did I see this guy interviewing Todd Howard about Fallout 3? If I remember correctly the interview ended with a group of firefighters seperating his head from Todd's ass, using a chainsaw and a blowtorch.
 
Yet, some say the orginal IP got too old and it had to die off. Look at Enterprise, Insurrection, and Nemesis. They died because trek gotten too old.
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You sure it's not 'cause they were sucky movies?
(Disclaimer: I never saw any of them and don't care about Star Trek)


Anyway, this is oooold and I'm pretty sure it was posted somewhere else on this forum too. Diablo III thread maybe?

Don't get why everyone hates on the people who insist on a darker art style though.
I'm guessing part of the reason for a lighter art style is to give it a better overview, make everything clearly visible, which is good for gameplay, but bad for spooky atmosphere. From there it's just a matter of subjective priorities. Why would you go for the throat of the guy who says he'd rather have a more atmospheric game like the first one? I don't get it.
I don't care that much about the art though. Would probably prefer darker.
Also don't get what the big deal about Wind Waker was. Seems to me like that game was closer to art style of the previous ones than Ocarina and Twilight P.

*edited in quote because of countryman's post
 
Ravager69 said:
I hope you understand what I am trying to say here.
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The thing is, in your analogy, the Dad owns the car, in reality, the Dad is the consumer, and the daughter/son is the owner of the car. Bethesda is not the Dad, but the son/daughter.
 
It could have been worse. EA could have bought the rights and then it would have been whole different scenario. As for Blizzard, one thing that irritates me is their approach to WoW. Their communication skills with community sucks and not understanding that games should be FUN not a chore or work. Other then that they have good story telling skills.
 
the creators dont owe anything to anyone per se. its the other way round, the user owes the creator. otoh, its quite stupid to completely disregard feedback; qualified feedback in any branch normally costs a fuckton of money.

and @wow and blizzards "nonexisting" communication skills: what a bold statement with nothing to back up. when i played wow (i did this for 3 years and hell did i spend time there) they were very accessible - which for me was quite a new experience. you might hint at the feedback regarding certain classes that were "nerfed" against the will of the community... well, that didnt matter to me, i was a warlock :twisted:
 
Well yes Horse, its about that and the feedback fiasco's. And I did play shaman as main class, so please have some sympathy.

Anyway back to topic. Taking EA as example, the last C&C titles. They look visually nice, but fail to hook like FO3 or C&C titles to Generals did. Oddly that goes for the latest releases from UBI to, kind of pity they had potential.
 
GreyViper said:
Well yes Horse, its about that and the feedback fiasco's. And I did play shaman as main class, so please have some sympathy.

Anyway back to topic. Taking EA as example, the last C&C titles. They look visually nice, but fail to hook like FO3 or C&C titles to Generals did. Oddly that goes for the latest releases from UBI to, kind of pity they had potential.
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But those titles did make money, so developers and publishers are going to continue as normal.
 
Is it me or does his point just come down to 'People are being paid to make the game, so you have no right not to like it'?

It's not about being afraid of change. It's about knowing what you like in a game.

It's even funnier and damn ironic that he, someone who makes a living off of commenting on games, then says 'They're just games whine about life instead!'
 
Yeah even with the fact that Adam sessler's jokes were scripted I always thought he was kind of a "okay" television host on a mainly suger coated gaming show.

This is just fucking downright moronic, he goes on bitching about gamers complaining and how games are just that. Yet he makes his entire career on the basis of reviewing and previewing games, yet pretty much shits on the hand that feeds him.

Way to go, asshole.
 
D3 bitching from D2 players saying D3 has too much of a comic look is just ridiculous.
It's also fun that every criticism is bitching/whining/trolling. Obey the softwareproducers, since they can't be wrong.

Uh, no, thank you but no.
 
People complaining about D3 looking too "colorful" are retarded. First of all, I am thrilled that there's going to be a new game that isn't brown, grey, black, or a combination. Most games are just that color scheme+particle effects+dynamic lighting=zomgawesome! (I'm looking at you Killzone). Besides, remember what night and day looked like in the first act of D2? Of course you fucking don't because it looked nearly fucking identical. I haven't seen footage of the game at night, but if it's as bright and well lit as it is in day I'll be pissed. But I find that unlikely considering that Blizzard isn't a bunch of morons.

Fallout 3 complaints stem from a general dumbing down of gameplay, poor dialogue, and shallow RPG elements mixed with passable shooting gameplay. Pretty valid if you ask me.
 
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