Star Trek 11 or just plain 'Star Trek'

The Dutch Ghost

Grouchy old man of NMA
Moderator
Hello all,

If I got my facts right tomorrow Star Trek 11 will be premiered in the theaters.
Being, or used to be, a major Star Trek fan this really should hold my interest but it doesn't really.

I would like to know what other people think of the upcoming movie and which of you are planning to get to it.


Why am I so negative? Well it has to do with personal taste.

I am not irritated that a new director is handling this, or that they are trying to reinvent Classic Star Trek (re invention occasionally works even though often evidence is proof of the opposite), or the little changes they have done here and there, not its more in the spirit of which the movie is made.

Despite claiming to be fans of the classic series the producers have focused a lot on a movie that doesn't feel much Star Trek at all, yeah we have the Warp drive, the Enterprise, Captain Kirk, Commander Spock etc. but that is just name calling, everyone can do that.

The focus is mostly to tell an action packed story that has to appeal to as much people (read average mainstream) in order to get to their wallets.

I have nothing against an action packed Star Trek, I was one of the people who liked Star Trek First Contact.
Once in a while an action focused story between all of the science fiction and philosophy can be a fresh breath of air.

The thing is, 'Star Trek' seems to be an indication of the franchise turning into action based flicks with the space setting being used to provide for special effects such as space battles and energy weapons.
Things such as meaningful story telling and interesting character development has become secondary.

Take Kirk, while he has always been a bit of a renegade, he apparently has always been a little punk, from stealing a car and driving it into the grand canyon to starting fights in bars which result in a Starfleet captain saying that he should join Starfleet now. (Starfleet searches bars for hooligans to recruit? Getting into the academy is easier than I first thought).

Of course the character now has to play by a younger actor as Shatner would require extreme make over to ever pass as a thirty year old again. (plus the man really isn't that good of an actor)

Like many movie clichés before Kirk is a stubborn know it all prick who has to learn through argument and insult what it takes to become a Starfleet captain.
You would think that writers would be tired of this cliché by now.

I don't know much about the actor playing young Spock (I don't watch heroes) but he does look the part.


The story itself is also not that remarkable, it doesn't convey the human adventure in space at all, again I don't mind action Star Trek stories but if for all purposes you want to make a series of space war movies why not create your own franchise?


What I found the most insulting, and this really got to me, was the reaction of some of the people looking forwards to this movie.

A whole rant of why Star Trek was dead (he was right on some points) and how Star Trek was being reinvented for normal people, and that all science fiction nerds 'who have never kissed a girl' should go back to science fiction books and masturbation (he didn't say the last, but it is implied)

What the hell? Did you even give a damn about Star Trek to begin with?
All you want is some summer blockbuster with explosions and breasts to keep your little imagination occupied for one and a half hour before leaving the theater to find the nearest fast food restaurant to gorge yourself.

I can truly see why these kind of movie goers are ignored this day and age.
 
Zeal said:
Picard > Kirk

the movie has already failed...

Ah memories, its been a while since we had that discussion.

Fortunate it never expanded into Picard - Kirk - Archer.

God honest, I hate that character.
 
Picard is always the better.

I personally am not in any way tensed to see the new movie. It is just some different movie with the same name on it. We know this already from other things... like computer games.
 
Nah I don't care either. I think it will suck. Old stuff look new never works.

don't get me wrong, I like star trek very much (tos not so much, but the movies are good anyways), but the recent developement (insurrection or that horrible thing that came afterwards..) is just too much for me. let it die with dignity and fire up some new sifi show.
 
IIt's been about a week since I've seen it. It's Trek Jim, but not as you know it.

The film's biggest fault is the villain. I think the film dedicates about 30 seconds to explaining the villain and his motives. Also, keep an eye out for a Cloverfield monster. And the Beastie Boys. I'm serious.

The film is fun, but as to what I think it means for the future of Star Trek - if Star Trek, as a franchise, is going to be relaunched based on this, it'll fall into the lump that is "modern" sci-fi stuff - all out action and sexiness in a futuristic setting. Yawn.
 
The Dutch Ghost said:
Of course the character now has to play by a younger actor as Shatner would require extreme make over to ever pass as a thirty year old again. (plus the man really isn't that good of an actor)
The Shat is awesome because of how bad he is and he's come around to acknoledging it and using it to his advantage.

The Dutch Ghost said:
I don't know much about the actor playing young Spock (I don't watch heroes) but he does look the part.
Agreed, he's the only actor in the movie who I believe has any shot at doing their role justice (meaning being remotely similar to the former actors in those roles).

The Dutch Ghost said:
A whole rant of why Star Trek was dead (he was right on some points) and how Star Trek was being reinvented for normal people, and that all science fiction nerds 'who have never kissed a girl' should go back to science fiction books and masturbation (he didn't say the last, but it is implied)

What the hell? Did you even give a damn about Star Trek to begin with?
All you want is some summer blockbuster with explosions and breasts to keep your little imagination occupied for one and a half hour before leaving the theater to find the nearest fast food restaurant to gorge yourself.
They tried all that, it was called Enterprise and it bombed.

Zeal said:
Picard > Kirk

the movie has already failed...
Picard is a better Star Fleet captain but Kirk has a different sort of entertainment value.

The Dutch Ghost said:
Fortunate it never expanded into Picard - Kirk - Archer.

God honest, I hate that character.
I still think that they should have ended the serries with him leaping (Quantum Leap) out of Archer. One thing I give Shatner is that he manages to be entertaining, regardless of how bad of an actor he is. I can't say the same for the guy who played Archer.
 
Hello UncannyGarlic,

Part of the charm of classic Star Trek comes The Shat's/Kirk's acting, there is no denying that.

They tried all that, it was called Enterprise and it bombed.

I think some people are still in denial, you should visit the TrekBBS, there are loads of people who still want an Enterprise season 5, 6 and 7.

Plus I think people always expect the new version to be better than the old version, even if the old version was good to begin with.

Picard is a better Star Fleet captain but Kirk has a different sort of entertainment value.

It also had a little bit to do with the time setting, classic Star Trek came in a period in which science fiction was expected to be corny.
Sure, they added some intelligence and drama but made sure not to get rid of all the corny-ness.
It went a little overboard in Season 3.


Lexx said:
I personally am not in any way tensed to see the new movie. It is just some different movie with the same name on it. We know this already from other things... like computer games.

I feel quite the same and have made that comparison as well, people seem dead set on resurrecting the name but not the intelligence or quality that comes with it.


Roflcore,
I wish that too, let Star Trek die with dignity and live on in comics, games, and books, but no more bad shows or movies please.


Unkillable Cat,
Remember, everyone wanted Star Trek to be resurrected like how you described it, everyone, except the fans.
 
The Dutch Ghost said:
Fortunate it never expanded into Picard - Kirk - Archer.

God honest, I hate that character.

God, why would it? :p

I hate that spin-off.

but i love "weapons at maximum". :D

UncannyGarlic said:
Zeal said:
Picard > Kirk

the movie has already failed...
Picard is a better Star Fleet captain but Kirk has a different sort of entertainment value.

yeap, true true. A sleezy sexy one. Portraited in futurama hehe
 
In my opinion Star Trek reached its apex with Star Trek 2: The Wrath of Khan (including the prequel episode of the original TV show), and should have been discontinued after that point.
 
The Dutch Ghost said:
Unkillable Cat,
Remember, everyone wanted Star Trek to be resurrected like how you described it, everyone, except the fans.

For the record I'm not enough of a fan to be a Trekkie/Trekker, but I did enjoy the shows and the films...though I haven't seen anything Star Trek-related older than the Motion Picture. I recognised that Trek has a distinct style to it that is different than other sci-fi shows...but now it seems they're throwing that to the wolves.

That said, anyone bringing up the word "intelligence" in regards to Star Trek is free to tell me just how fast (in speed units we all recognise) Warp Factor 1 really is.

It's also interesting to note that the new film says "FUCK YOU!" to 40+ years of Star Trek continuity in a heartbeat. I'll try no to spoil it, but due to a single event in the film, everything you know about the future timeline of Star Trek from this point on becomes irrelevant. It may happen, or it may not. It'll be up to future writers to sort that one out. But one thing is certain, if under this "new" timeline a certain ship named Voyager finds itself stranded on the other end of the galaxy, they're screwed. Due to a vital crew member simply no longer existing.
 
Unkillable Cat said:
That said, anyone bringing up the word "intelligence" in regards to Star Trek is free to tell me just how fast (in speed units we all recognise) Warp Factor 1 really is.
Actually the ship isn't moving, space is being moved around it so it's moving at 0mph/kmph. :P No, it certainly isn't a show for geniuses but there is far dumber crap on TV.

Unkillable Cat said:
It's also interesting to note that the new film says "FUCK YOU!" to 40+ years of Star Trek continuity in a heartbeat. I'll try no to spoil it, but due to a single event in the film, everything you know about the future timeline of Star Trek from this point on becomes irrelevant. It may happen, or it may not. It'll be up to future writers to sort that one out. But one thing is certain, if under this "new" timeline a certain ship named Voyager finds itself stranded on the other end of the galaxy, they're screwed. Due to a vital crew member simply no longer existing.
Welcome to Star Trek's obsession with fucking time travel, something they have only made entertaining once (with Voyage Home). I haven't read what you're referring to but I can guess.

This movie, like Enterprise, just makes me wonder why the hell they don't just move forward in the timeline like they used to. I mean, things are pretty well set in the past but you've got a crap load of room to explore if you go forward in the timeline so it makes no sense to do this prequel and TOS in a different timeline BS.
 
Welcome to franchise fatigue, when a good franchise destroys itself from within. Mind you, Star Trek was well on the way already.

Hopefully Star Wars will not go that far.
 
Isn't Star Wars already that far? I mean... all this new stuff everywhere, animated series, etc. For me, even the 3 new movies are already too much.
 
Lexx said:
Isn't Star Wars already that far? I mean... all this new stuff everywhere, animated series, etc. For me, even the 3 new movies are already too much.

The whole point of the series was having extra movies lol.... the only really good one was the third one, but the other two were passable.

The animated series aren't that bad actually. But I hope like after the 100 episodes they give it a break. Anything over that is too much. Then we have like the 50+ SW games and well.... enough is enough.

You know, quiting while you are ahead and all that.
 
I was so very relieved when Episode III was released, then I knew that Star Wars was dead for good and I had no reason to concern myself with it anymore.

UncannyGarlic said:
Welcome to Star Trek's obsession with fucking time travel, something they have only made entertaining once (with Voyage Home).

The best time-travel related plotline I've seen in Star Trek is the one they never used. Another series was being planned to be aired alongside Enterprise which focused on Riker and Troy aboard the starship Titan. In this series, the effects of the Temporal Cold War from the Enterprise series would be seen as the Federation falls apart and dies, despite the best efforts of both Riker and Archer.

EDIT: Typo.
 
So I like saw it today. Pretty fun movie in a action-adventure type sense.

Some big spoilers:

[spoiler:3aaa11b635]Nero just being a mining captain being driven insane by the compete destruction of Romulus and travelling back in time 175 years was awesome.

But due to all the time changes the whole movie is placed outside all previous Star Trek canon.[/spoiler:3aaa11b635]
 
Eh Unkillable Cat

The whole Riker/Titan series running alongside Enterprise sounds fan wank to be honest, I doubt something like that was ever considered by the TPTB.

There was indeed an idea for an animated series that would take place after a war had devastated the UFP with a new ship and crew visiting former members and putting the Federation back together.
Nothing really came of that.


UncannyGarlic said:
Welcome to Star Trek's obsession with fucking time travel, something they have only made entertaining once (with Voyage Home). I haven't read what you're referring to but I can guess.

This movie, like Enterprise, just makes me wonder why the hell they don't just move forward in the timeline like they used to. I mean, things are pretty well set in the past but you've got a crap load of room to explore if you go forward in the timeline so it makes no sense to do this prequel and TOS in a different timeline BS.

I am sick and tired of time travel in Star Trek, Braga seemed to be obsessed with it and one of the first things the new movie brings up is time travel again.

If you really wanted a movie in the TOS era, why involve time travel at all?
Does the villain really have to come from the TNG future? Or why a villain at all, why not go for something that truly captures the wonder and mystery of the universe and the human adventure in space.

Why not a phenomenon that poses a possible risk instead of some aliens?


At one point I agree with you, UncannyGarlic, sending the franchise perhaps eighty years in the future might have liberated it from the load of background it carries now.

But there is another risk.
At some point technology becomes so safe and problem solving that there is hardly anything threatening in the conventional sense that can't be solved with futuristic science.

I take it the Feds will only continue to become more and more advance.
How long would an enemy faction last against the Über starship Enterprise - I, armed with its Quantum cannons and Spectrum torpedoes?

Someone trapped onboard a ship that is about to fall into a singularity?
We will use the Multi Dimensional Translocator to pull said person safely through another dimension onboard without the singularity being a risk at all.

And speaking of singularity, at some point the society of the future would become so advance in everything that it has barely anything in common with what we can understand.
 
Well they would obviously have to fight people from unexplored sectors and aboard a starship they can always claim that they don't have the technology needed to treat every problem (though with replicators, that's a little hard to explain...). I don't see a problem with it being done, I see a problem with it being done well. I mean I don't think it really matters when this movie would have taken place, I'm doubtful that it would have turned out all that well regardless. But who knows.
 
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