The best Moral Dilemma in the series?

Triple Alliance said:
Somehow the political structure of the fictional NCR resembles the real life USA, but also any resemblance isn't valid.
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I said the most, not the same. Doesn't change the fact that the setting of Fallout has a completely different context to ours and trying to apply real world politics to it makes no sense. The setting of Fallout requires completely different measures to ours if it needs changing.
 
The 'best' moral dilemma will likely be determined by how conflicted your moral system is. Liberals will be especially conflicted here.

Also, why the focus on 'moral dilemma'? I can understand it makes for fun gameplay, but does the original Fallout really have thaaaaat much moral dilemna? Just fucking kill the Master. Duh.
 
Cambragol said:
The 'best' moral dilemma will likely be determined by how conflicted your moral system is. Liberals will be especially conflicted here.

Also, why the focus on 'moral dilemma'? I can understand it makes for fun gameplay, but does the original Fallout really have thaaaaat much moral dilemna? Just fucking kill the Master. Duh.
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...and not kill the Necropolis ghouls by stealing their water purification chip?
 
Exactly. Just kill those fucking ghouls already. Hahaha

But seriously, is there really a dilemma there? No. None whatsoever.
 
Fallout 1 definitely had moral dilemmas. It wasn’t as gray as Fallout New Vegas but they’re there. Killian or Gizmo in Junktown, steal the water chip from Necropolis for your Vault, send water caravans to your Vault potentially exposing its location, and working for Decker or reporting him come to mind.
 
PaxVenire said:
Fallout 1 definitely had moral dilemmas. It wasn’t as gray as Fallout New Vegas but they’re there. Killian or Gizmo in Junktown, steal the water chip from Necropolis for your Vault, send water caravans to your Vault potentially exposing its location, and working for Decker or reporting him come to mind.
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Agree to disagree. New Vegas has a lot of cut content that would have made choosing the NCR more morally compromising, but were cut, because obviously the developers are biased for the NCR.

they cut ncr trooper shooting water beggars.

also, its pretty telling that bitter springs is "no one knows what really happened" if the developers wanted some moral nuance, it should have been portrayed more like the My Lai massacre and not just "shit happens"
 
PaxVenire said:
Dude what? Reddit is the most anti-opinionated echo chamber of a website you can find. I've legitimately seen more diversity of opinions regarding this series on this site than I have on Reddit. There's literally a feature baked into Reddit where after a certain amount of downvotes your comment just gets shoved to the bottom of the thread and censored to where you have to click the expand option to even see what was said. I'll grant you that yes, Reddit does have a lot more users than a niche fan website from 1996, but like you're having a laugh if you genuinely believe they represent anything but their own echo chamber.
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You're conflating diversity of opinion versus the quantity of people that hold the same opinion. An echo chamber with more people still represents a larger portion of the NV's player's base than a smaller site.
 
PaxVenire said:
I don't know how to explain this to you, but diversity of opinion is literally how you measure the average opinion. The quantity of people in an echo chamber doesn't matter when your aim is that of the general consensus. That's like going to the DNC and saying most Americans are Democrats because there's barely any Republicans there. What you're saying makes no sense.
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There are actually more registered Democrats than Registered Republicans, and Independents lean more towards Democrats . I wouldn't say a majority of Americans are Democrats, but's it a plurality.

The general consensus is cumulative, not weighted. We don't give more weight to NMA just because it has more diverse opinions. If there's a 100 people on this site and only 5 people support NCR, vs 10,000 Redditors and 9,000 of them support NCR, the consensus is the NV player base leans towards NCR.
 
PaxVenire said:
What am I even agreeing/disagreeing with? That response was for the guy above my reply.
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That NV is more morally gray than Fallout 1. The developers clearly nudged you in the direction that Legion = Irredeemably Evil. All Human Companions have conflict with the PC siding with Legion. The NCR faction allows the PC freedom to do with they wish with any faction like Independent, not forcing any choices like Caesar and Mr. House wanting to kill the BOS.
 
PaxVenire said:
I mean I guess, but it's not like the NCR is presented as shiny and picturesque to begin with. They're shown to be incompetent, hiring a fuckup like Fantastic at Helios One, they have you shoot to kill three crucified soldiers in Nelson because they don't want to attempt a rescue, Thomas Hildern has sent who knows how many people to die in Vault 22 all for some Operation Paperclip-like research, pretty much everyone talks about how the government is ran by Brahmin barons and how they're expansion into the Mojave is basically just an ego trip for Kimball, they literally are set to lose to the Legion without Courier intervention because General Oliver let the first battle of Hoover Dam get to their head, General Oliver is a fool who's only General over Hsu because of favoritism from Kimball, they sit by and watch Primm get sacked by raiders because they're stretched too thin, they want to slaughter the Khans in Boulder City regardless if the Courier set up a deal to let them and the hostages go. I can go on. The NCR is full of good people ruled by pathetic corrupt weirdos, that's the point. Just because they don't overtly shoot water drinkers doesn't make them wholly innocent.
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People either ignore this or think democracy is better for the wasteland when it's clearly not working.

What people also miss is that the NCR is commiting the same exact mistakes the old world did and those mistakes led to the end of that world. This is why someone can make a strong against the NCR and pick other factions, NCR's path will most likely lead to yet another nuclear war and a second apocalypse. Hence why thinking the wasteland's context is the same as real world is stupid, the game sets it up and then the player is supposed to make a choice that is the best for the wasteland and not for the real world. And of course it's easier if you are NCR, they control the area at the start of the game and the Legion arrived recently at the Mojave and are the biggest enemy of the NCR.

So, no, the devs aren't more biased towards the NCR. The fact that the NCR has more content is solely because it was the first faction to be worked on and the limited time caused to take an axe to other factions. The Legion actually had quests where the player would see how life is in Legion territory, so i very much doubt Obsidian was trying to make Legion pure evil.
 
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The interesting moral dilemma in Fallout [1] was when people found out the consequence of their actions in the end—and immediately replayed the game to undo their actions to avoid having those consequences happen. I don't know of that happening with Fallout 2, and would scarcely believe it of FO3 or beyond.
 
Norzan said:
What people also miss is that the NCR is commiting the same exact mistakes the old world did and those mistakes led to the end of that world. This is why someone can make a strong against the NCR and pick other factions, NCR's path will most likely lead to yet another nuclear war and a second apocalypse.

So, no, the devs aren't more biased towards the NCR. The fact that the NCR has more content is solely because it was the first faction to be worked on and the limited time caused to take an axe to other factions. The Legion actually had quests where the player would see how life is in Legion territory, so i very much doubt Obsidian was trying to make Legion pure evil.
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Funny cause that sounds like the plot of the Fallout TV show.
 
Iprovidelittlepianos said:
Well, just from my experience, it sometimes seems like NCR is the only one you’re “allowed” to support, based on the extrapolations people like to make about you. If you like the Legion you’re a Trumper at best, a Nazi at worst.
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Ropekid is Joshua Sawyer. Let's see what he has to say.

"It seems like not many people advocate Caesar's Legion without also openly aligning themselves with fascist / hard right beliefs personally, but a fair number of people who may consider themselves *~ liberal ~* will argue sincerely that the RDC is the best thing to come to the Deadfire Archipelago.

With Caesar's Legion, it's hard to avoid the obvious associations with real, historical dictatorships and later fascism in the 20th century via the adoption of Roman regalia. The Age of Sail and subsequent colonialism is less well-documented and the reasoning for cultural imperalism was always drawn in contrast with the perceived barbarism of the colonized cultures.

It becomes much easier for people to tolerate cultural imperialism and the subsequent erasure of native cultures when they find the practices of native cultures abhorrent."

And yet another failing of the New Vegas writers. Want to make it more morally nuanced? Give the tribes that the Legion conquered cultural practices that modern day audiences would find objectionable. Something like the human sacrifice of Mesoamerica clashing with the Conquistadores comes to mind.
 
Fallout 1 does have gray dilemma. One only, I think. Which is sending water caravans to our Vault 13. I ask you: were we supposed to know that Vault is such a valuable real estate that exposing Vault location is like lit bonfire in the night. Meanwhile V13 is in desperate for water. I think, even with this piece of knowledge, we players would probabbly make the choice favor sending caravans anyway. Gray AF!!!!

All other decisions are not that gray.
 
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