The condition of Survival Horrors, on example

R

Ravager69

Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!
So, I come up with this topic, because I keep hearing people how awesome Dead Space was. My point is (and the point of this thread) to prove that although the game can be enjoyable, it's a step back for survival horror genre. I will do this by proving that The Suffering, a game with pretty outdated engine and older a couple of years is a much better survival horror game. I would also like to point out some disturbing trends I noticed in the genre overall.

Let's begin, shall we?

1.Starting off from the very beginning, the menu. It may be my taste, but I'd say The Suffering has a better one. It's a matter of taste, so no judgement here.

2. A vital part of the game, the intro.

a) Dead Space:

Intro: http://pl.youtube.com/watch?v=ARiMl51L8SE

Mission 01: http://pl.youtube.com/watch?v=we1oLVRobYQ&feature=related

The intro, aside from showing some cool death animations, is worthless. The atmosphere is nice, but rather boring. No information on what's going on, just gore. The first mission is utterly cliche. You get to listen to some stiff dialogue, are separeted from the group with some lame excuse, get to watch a dude get backstabbed (and of course say nothing, because it would ruin the cut-scene) and overall the whole point is to show-off the Isaac's Power Armor and that creepy dude with knives for hands.

b) The Suffering: http://pl.youtube.com/watch?v=tvO8CqYKj1c

The atmosphere, moral issues, good dialogues and voice over. Torque basically owns Isaac when it comes to being a bad-ass (Try killing those monster with a knife and without that fancy-ass PA. Besides, he has cool facial hair). You have a *story* and a *mistery*, unlike in Dead Space, where it's pretty obvious what's happening and NPCs are cliche as hell.

Suffering 1 : 0 Dead Space

3. Monsters:

a) Dead Space: At least a couple of them are ripped-off from the Suffering (the first few for sure - the ones with knives for hands and the jumping ones, the fat thing with a sack). A couple of them are failry nice, but most are just mutated bag of blood and tissue, made from the crew's bodies. The strong point are the boss monsters.

b) Incarnations of various executed prisoners, they have style, characters AND a backstory. Slayers are the best (hah, I shot off your head you fucker, now d...why is he still coming at me!?!)

It's a tie, though I'd risk saying The Suffering is a little bit ahead.

4. The overall gameplay

a) Dead Space: You run around shooting things (LAZEARS) and watch cool death animations. Most of enemies die by dismemberment of legs or arms. The story is dull and there are almost no other people alive beside you. Some audiotapes (a nice touch). Yeah, the ISOLATION, I know, but it gets boring pretty quick if there are no people around and the ones present are dull. Oh, and there's slow-mo and anomalies. And weapon upgrades. I rarely had a situation when I was surprised by the mobs, you can tell most of the time when you'll be attacked.

The game is a one big graphical\physics show off, with a couple of good ideas and physics actually close to RL.

b) The Suffering: You try to escape the prison Abott (or is it Abbot?) and stumble upon other people all the time and you can decide the fate of some of them. You can see how other people fare in extreme situation. There is a choice in what you do, though limited, that actually means something. Do you get any choice in Dead Space (aside from how tu upgrade that turbo-plasma chainsaw)? Not really. Here you can actually decide what kind of man Torque is. You also meet three ghosts of former Abbot residents - Dr Killjoy, Hector and Hermes. All three are interesting and have a story of their own. And then there's the Beast...I love that roar when you loose it all and rip enemies apart with your hands...There's also dismemberment, though not so fancy as in DS. Also, Torque can get soaked in blood when fighting and will breathe rapidly when sees some fucked up stuff.

Overall, there's at least some bigger sense in what you're doing.

4. Story

a) Dead Space: What? Aliens killed the crew and turned their bodies into deadly sacks of tissue? Now where have I seen that idea before....oh, you also have to find your girlfriend.

b) The Suffering: You try to figure out just what the fuck are those things you see - are they human? Ghost? Why do they look this way? Who are the ghosts of the people you meet? Did you or did not kill your family? Help or do not help other people? Also, there are the journals with info on the places you visit and monsters you encounter and flashes of some disturbing images from time to time.

I think everyone see who the winner is in this part.

5. Conclusion

Looking at Dead Space, Resident Evil and similar games, one can clearly see that nowadays survival horrors tend to shift from atmosphere to action. Give some half-assed story, creepy looking monsters (preferably zombies), awesome death animations and you have the next great hit. It's sad to see that all the big titles are being adapted to the console crowd, which is ever-hungry for gore and cares little for the story.
 
Well, I don't think I've ever read that Dead Space was an original game or had an original setting. Sure, it was ripped off from a variety of sources. However, it also ripped off the atmosphere of its various cinematographic inspirations. I don't see how one can say that Dead Space has no atmosphere. Sure, it's not creepy like RE1 and RE2, it does not rely on hidden figures and the uncanny, but it succeeds at blending together the elements that made Aliens ( 2 and 3 ) and The Thing great.

In Dead Space, you don't expect spooky monsters, you expect monsters to jump right on your face and make you go "Oh fuck, fuck shit fuck, damnit, move it, faster...DAMNIT !!!!! NO !!"

Of course Dead Space is an action game and a rather unoriginal one, but unlike most games of the same genre, it makes a good use of its influences and delivers. Oh, and the soundtrack and sound effects are top notch.
 
Excellent post, trying to compere these two games.To me personally, The Suffering is three goals ahead.

Better plot, better and more deeper main character(mute Torque makes sense), better monsters, better atmosphere and of course Dr. Killjoy.
 
I agree too. The Suffering is a much better survival horror game, but.. I don't even consider Dead Space a survival horror game. I think Dead Space is survival action, just like Resident Evil 4. Although The Suffering is not really scary too, when you compare it to games like Silent Hill (first three of them anyway). But at least it has a decent story, Dr. Killjoy is awesome, and you can decide wether the main character actually killed his family through your actions.
Not that I have much against Dead Space, I like it a lot, but only as a third person shooter, not a horror game. Hollywood style horror was never scary to me, actually it's rather funny sometimes. Well ok, it was scary when I was 8 years old.

MrBumble said:
In Dead Space, you don't expect spooky monsters, you expect monsters to jump right on your face and make you go "Oh fuck, fuck shit fuck, damnit, move it, faster...DAMNIT !!!!! NO !!"
Click to expand...

Exactly. Dead Space is about tension, not horror.
 
You talk about survival horrors but forget to include System Shock 2?

Sheesh. It's like making a summary about 1957 and forgetting Sputnik.

Newb.
 
Wooz said:
You talk about survival horrors but forget to include System Shock 2?

Sheesh. It's like making a summary about 1957 and forgetting Sputnik.

Newb.
Click to expand...

Firstly, it's not a summary - I was talking about the games from the recent years and where the genre tends to go. The old series where suspension and atmosphere was the shizt go into mindless console action, where you shoot enemies with cool weapons (lolz I blew his head off). Secondly, I haven't played SS2 (I know I know, I'll kill myself later), so I can't use it in my comparison, really.

I forgot to mention before, that The Suffering has another point ahead with the numerous vision you have and phone calls you can answer, as well as the radio chatter from various people. And the fact that the playthrough can be a little diffrent depending on how you choose to play.
 
Multidirectional said:
MrBumble said:
In Dead Space, you don't expect spooky monsters, you expect monsters to jump right on your face and make you go "Oh fuck, fuck shit fuck, damnit, move it, faster...DAMNIT !!!!! NO !!"
Click to expand...

Exactly. Dead Space is about tension, not horror.
Click to expand...

Then we all agree that the game, while sold as Survival Horror, is actually a Survival Panic, like Dino Crisis.
 
Makenshi said:
Multidirectional said:
MrBumble said:
In Dead Space, you don't expect spooky monsters, you expect monsters to jump right on your face and make you go "Oh fuck, fuck shit fuck, damnit, move it, faster...DAMNIT !!!!! NO !!"
Click to expand...

Exactly. Dead Space is about tension, not horror.
Click to expand...

Then we all agree that the game, while sold as Survival Horror, is actually a Survival Panic, like Dino Crisis.
Click to expand...

The Suffering has similar tension, especially on Impossible difficulty. You get hit 3 times by a slayer and you're gone. Makes every bullet count (I shot off your arm AND YOUR HEAD DAMNIT, WHY WON'T YOU DIE!?!). Dead Space simply has better graphics.
 
Makenshi said:
Then we all agree that the game, while sold as Survival Horror, is actually a Survival Panic, like Dino Crisis.
Click to expand...

I certainly have no objections. Forgot about Dino Crisis, good example it is.
But maybe some people actually found Dead Space to be scary. If yes, then speak up, don't be afraid..
 
Well, I didn't think the game was scary in a Project Zero way, but it still managed to "scare" ( or maybe "surprise" ) me with necromorph attacks I didn't expect at a given moment for instance. It didn't make me feel ill at ease for instance, but managed to make me panic quite a few times.
 
Ok then, as long as we're sharing here.. There is one event where necromorph jumps just in front of your face right after you finished using upgrade station somewhere in the middle of the game. It's the only time it happens, hence me jumping at that moment.
It's still not exactly horror though.. Like for example in Silent Hill 2 in prison level there is this weird grumbling-like sound when you are going past cells, and even though I know I'll never see the source of that sound it still makes me scared shitless.. Now that's the kinda horror I mean - psychological, something that keeps you on your toes all the time.
 
Secondly, I haven't played SS2 (I know I know, I'll kill myself later), so I can't use it in my comparison, really.
Click to expand...

Play it, it's freeware. Scariest game ever made.
 
The Suffering is just a shooter with horror elements.
Doesn't seem to be much of a "survival horror" to me.

I'm no expert however, played the original Alone in the Dark, killed the stupid tree, ran out of the mansion, saw the ridiculously stupid ending, and gave up on the genre.
I did enjoy that game, but it was about four hours of gameplay with crappy controls and some stupid puzzles (put the mat over the ax-throwing portrait, uh, okay).

It was probably the first game that genuinely scared me though, I haven't tried Dead Space yet, but have been avoiding spending full price on it because I don't like games that only provide me with a few hours of gameplay, no matter how well made they are.
 
Wow.. to give up on the whole genre only after "Alone In The Dark"? Sounds like a waste. Have you tried any of the first three Silent Hill games at least? Silent Hill 2 in particular? If not, do yourself a favor..
As regarding game length.. Resident Evil 4, while not scary, is pretty lengthy, about 20+ hours worth of playtime, and is very entertaining. Dead Space is basically "RE4 in space", just much shorter.
 
I prioritize gameplay over story and atmosphere, from what I've heard of most survival horror games, including the majority of the Resident Evils and Silent Hills, they all seem to have atrocious gameplay.
Yet the people that recommend them to me say they enjoyed them, but I know what kind of gamer I am, I'm not satiated by surface material, if it's not well made it bothers me intensely, I've wasted far too much time on games not worth playing simply because someone told me that the horrible gameplay was worth suffering through for the story or some other gimmick.

There was one game that I really enjoyed despite someone telling me the gameplay was unattractive. It was The Longest Journey, I don't know what my friend was talking about when he said the gameplay wasn't enjoyable, that game featured wonderfully well thought out puzzles to go with the beautiful story, music, art and atmosphere.

Games such as The Longest Journey are the pinnacle of game design, there are no concessions made so that one element of the game can take precedence over the other, everything is given equal attention and polish. The Longest Journey didn't offer hackneyed puzzles like Myst or The Dig so that it could tell a story or create an atmospheric experience without losing resources on those aspects.

Most survival horror games don't seem to fit that bill, they like to place atmosphere and story over polished gameplay, and that just doesn't fly with me.

It's a weird genre from my standpoint, I can see how people like it, but it's strange that so many people have put up with the inherent problems that each installment in any popular series in the genre seems to have present.
I heard that Resident Evil 4 and 5 fixed some of those problems in that series, but to me they just looked like action games and less what people identified survival horror with in the early to late nineties.
 
Eyenixon said:
I heard that Resident Evil 4 and 5 fixed some of those problems in that series, but to me they just looked like action games
Click to expand...

Well they are.. Ok, 5th one isn't out yet, but I'm pretty sure it will be a full fledged action game just like the RE4, maybe even moreso. RE4 plays exactly like an action game, and a fine action game it is. Although all of RE games have shitty stories, unlike Silent Hill. You might like RE4 and Dead Space, judging by what you said.
I suppose horror and action is something that doesn't mix too well. Once your character becomes good at fighting, the horror part is lost. It's a weird thing, but crappy combat is something that can actually contribute to the atmosphere of survival horror game. Silent Hill for instance.. Last Silent Hill game featured somewhat improved combat but it didn't scare me one bit and I'd say it is the shittiest game in the series, while Silent Hill 2 is my favorite with it's puzzles and atmosphere, but.. kinda clumsy combat.
 
Someone else here mentioned System Shock 2, that game had absolutely fine combat.
In my opinion the only way horror games are scary is if they are difficult, BioShock tries from the beginning to the end to make you jump or it tries to creep you out at every second, but it doesn't work because you simply understand the fact that nothing can actually harm you or present a real threat.

Compare this to System Shock 2 where you're fodder to most enemies if you don't pay attention.
The games that have inspired the most fear in me aren't horror games at all, Rogue Spear set me on edge like no other game as a matter of fact, even if it was a realistic squad based tactical shooter. Leaning around corners eying for tangos was incredibly intense when you knew that a single stray shot from an overlooked nook could kill you before you could even react to the terrorist hiding within it.
 
I follow the Woozster: System Shock 2. One of the few shooters I played before they started to make me seasick and one I thoroughly enjoyed because at times it scared the crap out of me.

I would also like to add that I find Eyenixon to be the best poster we've had since years. I basically stalk his arse just to read his posts which are always clever, precise and well-written. He clearly puts a lot of thought into them, which pleases me. And he's got a nice style, a style I can relate to, although - and this goes without saying - it remains inferior to mine. :D

That is all.
 
Eyenixon said:
Someone else here mentioned System Shock 2, that game had absolutely fine combat.
In my opinion the only way horror games are scary is if they are difficult, BioShock tries from the beginning to the end to make you jump or it tries to creep you out at every second, but it doesn't work because you simply understand the fact that nothing can actually harm you or present a real threat.
Click to expand...

I have to get SS2 running on my machine somehow, it pains me that I haven't played it yet, having problems with launching it.
I see your point about difficulty, but that's not always the case. Silent Hill to me was scary as hell even when I played it on "Easy", Dead Space didn't scare me on "Impossible", Resident Evil 4 as well on "Professional". Ok, Dead Space was much easier than RE4 to me, but maybe that's partly cause there's no mouse support for RE4 and I have to play it with gamepad. Both games can be pretty difficult at times, especially RE4, which I played a bit just half an hour ago and I had to take a break cause it totally kicked my ass.
I think what you are talking about is tension, not horror. Sure, I have plenty of that in shooters when playing on highest difficulty and I enjoy that just as much, but the horror I'm talking about is when you are so scared by the game that overcoming you fear to play it further becomes a challenge in itself, even when there's no real challenge in gameplay. That's something that requires a lot of creativity to achieve, ant when a videogame is able to present me with trip like that, I'm happy to take it, even if it has plenty of gameplay issues. I do see where your coming from though, for you videogames are always about the gameplay, and I respect that too.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top