The Fallout universe is the 1950s!

President_Peaches

President_Peaches

First time out of the vault
One of the most annoying thing about the kiddies who have only played the 3d Fallouts is that they insist that the Fallout universe, both pre and post-war is stuck in some sort of 1950s stasis. Sometimes firearms in New Vegas are labelled not "lore-friendly" because they were designed more recently than the early 60's and have synthetic stocks. While Fallout 1+2 were retro-futurisic styled, particularly anything related to the pre-war world, these were aesthetic and thematic choices (contrasting the optimism of post WWII America with the horrific realities of a Cold War gone hot) rather than a concrete depiction of the lore of the world.

And while the world of Fallout was intentionally pulpy, the influences come not just from old classics such as Forbidden Planet, but also from post-60s sci-fi with a more cynical view of the future, such as A Boy and His Dog, The Road Warrior and Warhammer 40k. Saying that everything in the Fallout world should be straight out of the 1950s is like saying that all the female characters in Futurama should be wearing miniskirts because the world is styled to look like what they thought the future would look like in the 1960s and has lots of references to classic Star Trek.
 
I think Fallout was intended to take place in the classic WORLD OF TOMORROW sort of pulp science fiction outlook of the 50s, with the added twist that the collapse from Mad Max happened in that utopian world.
And before everyone REEEEEs at me that the world of Fallout wasn't utopian, yes, I'm aware. That's because the Mad Max apocalypse happened.
 
Hassknecht said:
I think Fallout was intended to take place in the classic WORLD OF TOMORROW sort of pulp science fiction outlook of the 50s, with the added twist that the collapse from Mad Max happened in that utopian world.
And before everyone REEEEEs at me that the world of Fallout wasn't utopian, yes, I'm aware. That's because the Mad Max apocalypse happened.
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Fallout uses imagery from the post-WWII utopian visions of what the future was going to be like, but there is no way that the pre-war America (or the rest of the world) was utopian, with all the wars, peak oil, social unrest, toxic pollution and horrific human experimentation. One of the first images of the pre-war world we see in the series is a power-armoured American soldier summarily executing a Canadian fighter- and that's being used as propaganda.
 
President_Peaches said:
Fallout uses imagery from the post-WWII utopian visions of what the future was going to be like, but there is no way that the pre-war America (or the rest of the world) was utopian, with all the wars, peak oil, social unrest, toxic pollution and horrific human experimentation. One of the first images of the pre-war world we see in the series is a power-armoured American soldier summarily executing a Canadian fighter- and that's being used as propaganda.
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I hate you.
 
Corbett said:
A suggestion; next time someone says that a gun designed later than the 60s doesn't fit the universe, show them the H&K P90c, then the 90s weapon it's based on.
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To be fair, the massive amount of modern (and real world) guns found in Fallout 2 was always a huge point of criticism for Fallout 2.
President_Peaches said:
Fite me, bro
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I think I'll just ban you or something. Change your nickname to "James The Cockmongler", something classy.
 
Unpopular opinion here. And it's funny because usually I'm the first person who seizes an opportunity to rip Bethesda a new one for not understanding the fiction.

I don't disagree with the '50s stasis' direction that the Fallout 3 took. As Hassknecht alluded to, I felt that Fallout 2 almost deviated too much from the brilliant retro-futuristic tone that Fallout was trying to set in the first place. Look again at the opening to the original game. There's a black and white tube TV and they are showing an ad for a 50s style futuristic car. Making every pre-war item fit the 50s aesthetic keeps the atmosphere focused in my opinion.

Bethesda fucked up a lot with Fallout 3, but I never personally felt the style was one of them.
 
Hassknecht said:
To be fair, the massive amount of modern (and real world) guns found in Fallout 2 was always a huge point of criticism for Fallout 2.

.
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It is. that´s why I'd rather not get stuck by these conventions. For example, I love the AMR (although I does not use, real men snipes with brush guns without scope). AMR is a nineties weapon

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PGM_Hécate_II

1024px-PGM_Hecate.jpg


I also love the Desert Eagle .44 in FO2

Could not care less if it is not Fallout thing. I know what I like.
 
I would argue that it is not just a belief of the future as they expected it to be... but that the very laws of their physical reality are bent around that belief... to the point that an unknown atomic fallout from the great war could create the Necropolis Ghouls, and that men & women can be transmogrified into B movie ogre-like monsters by being dipped into a green vat nuclear ooze.

It was to be a thematic GURPS campaign setting after all...

As for the perceived anachronisms (with the weapons and other items)...
I'd assume that they could develop any technology at all—regardless of if it was pre or post 50's. The only important factor would be that they would develop it with a 50's aesthetic. If they were to devise an portable media player, or a even cell phone... it would behave like what you'd expect, but it would look like a prop from Forbidden Planet, or out of a World-of-Tomorrow article in Popular Science.

Fallout is Dieselpunk.
 
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President_Peaches said:
Fallout uses imagery from the post-WWII utopian visions of what the future was going to be like, but there is no way that the pre-war America (or the rest of the world) was utopian, with all the wars, peak oil, social unrest, toxic pollution and horrific human experimentation. One of the first images of the pre-war world we see in the series is a power-armoured American soldier summarily executing a Canadian fighter- and that's being used as propaganda.
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You forgot the New Plague.
 
Norzan said:
Blame Bethesda for giving this false view on the Fallout universe.
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True, as Bethesda's understanding of Fallout universe is extremely superficial. However, Obsidian didn't do anything to fix it either in NV. I often felt like I was in a 50's movie while playing NV.

Fallout and Fallout 2 had nothing to do with the 50's other than a bunch of retro-futuristic design choices that looked like props of a 50's sci-fi movie and that was about it.
 
nkchan16 said:
True, as Bethesda's understanding of Fallout universe is extremely superficial.
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I think it's much worse than that. I believe that Todd and Emil are not that dense. Both like video games, and Emil & Pete both were a professional game reviewers at the Adrenalin Vault, back when the original games were current—they would very likely have played them, or known about them.

Some of the FO3 devs had never even heard of the game before starting work on the sequel... but the ones in charge almost certainly knew of them... and I think that they chose to simplify the elevator pitch—for mass consumption. Try explaining that the game-world is the incarnate belief and expectation of the popular 1950's cultural hopes & fears—blown to hell by nuclear war. Or simply say it's the future that stopped in the 50's. :whatever:

There were professional game reviews where the authors believed the game was set in the 1950's.
Todd himself joked during a speech at George Mason University, about some event happening after 1947... so it didn't happen in FO3. :irked:

IMO it's a marketing choice. Unfortunate for us; very fortunate for them. I can't fault them for being good at their job... But that job is making something that will sell to the masses—not making a faithful sequel, appreciated mainly by those (relatively few) who were fans of the originals. They used us for hype and word of mouth, but they knew they would never deliver on what we were hoping for—and they refused help from at least one Fallout developer who contacted them.
 
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Gizmojunk said:
I would argue that it is not just a belief of the future as they expected it to be... but that the very laws of their physical reality are bent around that belief... to the point that an unknown atomic fallout from the great war could create the Necropolis Ghouls, and that men & women can be transmogrified into B movie ogre-like monsters by being dipped into a green vat nuclear ooze.
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Not to mention that cold fusion nuclear reactors have been miniturized to the point of powering cars, suits of armor, and fucking guns. I'm glad you brought this up though, because while I must have always subconsciously understood it, I don't know if I would have ever necessarily put Fallout's bad science under the '50s aesthetic' blanket until now.

Gizmojunk said:
As for the perceived anachronisms (with the weapons and other items)...
I'd assume that they could develop any technology at all—regardless of if it was pre or post 50's. The only important factor would be that they would develop it with a 50's aesthetic. If they were to devise an portable media player, or a even cell phone... it would behave like what you'd expect, but it would look like a prop from Forbidden Planet, or out of a World-of-Tomorrow article in Popular Science.
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Nailed it. I mean look at fucking Mr. Handies and Robobrains. Can we even do that shit now in 2018? Don't tell me they can't make a sniper rifle. The only difference is that the robots look 50s.

nkchan16 said:
Fallout and Fallout 2 had nothing to do with the 50's other than a bunch of retro-futuristic design choices that looked like props of a 50's sci-fi movie and that was about it.
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Nope, nothing to do with the 50s at all.

 
nkchan16 said:
True, as Bethesda's understanding of Fallout universe is extremely superficial. However, Obsidian didn't do anything to fix it either in NV. I often felt like I was in a 50's movie while playing NV.
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I agree, for OWB.

NV in a nutshell is more like mobsters in old west/cowboys vs roman empire

. This is even one of the greatest critiques of the Bethesdafags. That NV does not look anything like a "true Fallout"
 
President_Peaches said:
One of the most annoying thing about the kiddies who have only played the 3d Fallouts is that they insist that the Fallout universe, both pre and post-war is stuck in some sort of 1950s stasis.
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Funny thing is, those retro-futuristic design choices for certain stuff in the game felt rather out of place and somewhat annoying when I first played the game back in the day, "immersion breaking" if you will, as I preferred a more realistic game world, which is completely the opposite of what those kiddies think. :D
 
nkchan16 said:
Funny thing is, those retro-futuristic design choices for certain stuff in the game felt rather out of place and somewhat annoying when I first played the game back in the day, "immersion breaking" if you will, as I preferred a more realistic game world, which is completely the opposite of what those kiddies think. :D
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You can hate it all you want, I'm not disputing that you dislike the aesthetic. Don't tell me that Fallout has never had anything to do with the 50s or retro-futurism though, because that's just blatantly untrue. If you want something realistic, there are plenty of other titles for that.

Also on a side note, assuming the only reason people like the design choices is because they are young is a bit of a generalization.
 
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