The Unholy G.E.C.K. and the Countdown to Extinction

Quaid

Give dese people air!!
I played Fallout I and II back when they came out, and while Fallout I grabbed me by the balls and took me on a rollercoaster ride from start to finish, Fallout II never quite had the same intensity for me. Needless to say, I've done quite a bit of the game, but I've never quite finished it. So I am going back to relive one of the greatest game franchises of all time.

*Spoilers*














The heart and soul of the game - retrieving the Holy Water Chip (er, G.E.C.K.!!) for Arroyo. One of the biggest let downs for me regarding Fallout I was the time limit on the game! I wasn't able to keep playing my character and exploring as I saw fit because the Master HAD to be dealt with - and then the game ends!! With Fallout 2 they apparently remedied this - allowing you explore, finish the game, and explore as much as your little heart desires (or so I've read).

Now to the crux of the problem. During my first run through with Fallout II, I finally retrieved the G.E.C.K. and got it all the way back to Arroyo - only to find my village wasted!! I figured "okay. there must be a time limit from when the game starts for you to obtain the G.E.C.K. but with all you need to do and the places you need to travel to - I don't see how you could do it all much quicker than I did it!"

So before I began to play it again, I decided to look at a walkthrough to gain a better understanding of the Kit Quest. Apparently entering Vault 13 'starts a timer' which Countsdown to Arroyo's Extinction. Therefore, the walkthrough author recommends not entering Vault 13 until near the end. Likewise, there is one in the Enclave, and you probably won't be entering there until near the end anyway.

My question is this: How the fuck was I supposed to know that entering Vault 13 early would spell certain doom for my village? I assumed the time was ticking from the moment I crossed the bridge into the vast wasteland. Am I missing something here? Is it possible to swipe the G.E.C.K. at Vault 13 early and then make a Bee-Line back to Arroyo to save Uncle Fester and his band of misfits? Any hardcore veteran enlightenment would be much appreciated.
 
Quaid said:
My question is this: How the fuck was I supposed to know that entering Vault 13 early would spell certain doom for my village?

Plot device, mister Frodo. Plot device.

Quaid said:
Is it possible to swipe the G.E.C.K. at Vault 13 early and then make a Bee-Line back to Arroyo to save Uncle Fester and his band of misfits?

No can do, the dream appears the night following the acquisition of the GECK (or when you leave map) and inevitably destroys Arroyo.
 
Plot progression good. Only way to save village by having knowledge player wouldn't have bad. "But why Sam?? Why?? You can't understand what the ring does to a person. I HAVE to believe Smeagal can be saved."

Now, it appears you're saying Arroyo bites it no matter what - which is a-okay by me - I never liked the filthy savages anyway. The only reason I question it is because the walkthrough I mentioned alludes to the fact that it CAN be saved?!?
 
Which is the walkthrough you are referring to? The Holy Scriptures of the Lizard Pontiff a.k.a. Per's Fallout 2 Walkthrough?
 
You didn't read it right.

The countdown causes the extinction of the deathclaws at V13, not Arroyo.

Arroyo will be destroyed no matter what. Vault 13 is just bugged and thus doomed to die (a bit like Necropolis in Fallout 1).

You can't save the deathclaws OR your village, but as Hakunin will tell you, your tribe survived the destruction of your village.


*ENDGAME SPOILERS*

Hakunin will tell you that your tribe got abducted by the Enclave. To save it you will have to rig up the tanker in San Fran and beat the Enclave on the oil rig. You'll also find some of the original (human) dwellers of Vault 13 there.
 
Ashmo said:
Vault 13 is just bugged and thus doomed to die (a bit like Necropolis in Fallout 1)

Clearly you must have meant The Hub. It's totally possible to get a good ending for Necropolis.
 
Silencer said:
Ashmo said:
Vault 13 is just bugged and thus doomed to die (a bit like Necropolis in Fallout 1)

Clearly you must have meant The Hub. It's totally possible to get a good ending for Necropolis.

As I said. Necropolis is "bugged and thus doomed to die".

Are you even reading what you quote? ;)
 
Fuck, Ashmo, either one of us is illiterate, or you're messing with me, man. ;)

You can get the "good" endling for Necropolis (the ghouls trading in Vault tech) but you can only get a bad-enidng or no-ending for the Hub, just like you can only get a genocide or no mention about Vault 13 in Fallout 2. Hence, Hub is a better comparison to Vault 13 than Necropolis is, in terms of game ending buggyness.
 
Was it a bug that there was no good ending for the Deathclaws, or an intentional design decision? ( I assume intentional but my memory is a little fuzzy.)
 
Didn't know you could save Necropolis, but I figured not going there again or something like that might help.

I usually play long enough for the mutants to overrun everything from LA to Shady Sands anyway.

Lazarus Plus said:
Was it a bug that there was no good ending for the Deathclaws, or an intentional design decision? ( I assume intentional but my memory is a little fuzzy.)

Bug. IIRC there are other endings, the conditions just happen to be broken.
 
Dudes, Fallout isn't a scout-boy game in which you save every village no matter how you play it. It's not a BioWare game.

I loved FO1's ending, and was quite disappointed with FO2's overly optimistical train of events. Oh noes, Arroyo is raided by a power-armoured platoon, unevitably. No more kumba-yah singing around the gecko-frying fireplace.

Meh, it still becomes TEH UBAH METROPOLIS OF TEH WASTELANDDE!!1. Oh yeah. *spoiler*.

I think what I most liked about FO1 was the ambiguousity between good and evil, the fragmentation of the different shades of gray implied in the plot, involving the player's ultimate moral decision between choosing the practical, pragmatic way of joining to the Ubermensch race of mutants, or defending loyally humans, just to be banished from the place you fought so hard to upkeep. It was a game that made you *think* about different points of view in a sociopolitical setting.

But wait. Nowadays, it's not trendy nor profitable to make games that make you think. Let's give all those teenagers some e-violence, e-sex and e-drugs, just the shit they've been educated and hammered in by their parents that it's "baaad, mm'kay?". Let's give those hungry masses some r safe alternative to be the rough and tough idol image MTV and publicity hammers into their heads every day as a role-model. Hey, the magazine says your face doesn't look quite right. Your body isn't quite fit. You're not tuff enuff. So, lads and gels, let's buy FO:Piece Of Shit, where you play the role of a steroid-saturated, brainless lean mean sex machine. Or the role of a silicon-enhanced cumslurping, cockmonkey slut.

Everything art-related, from graphics, to paintings, to music via videoclips, to videogames, sells and was sold through the ages better, by that simple schematic, I tell you. Make $$$ now, as long as you include artificial, pseudo-forbidden and MATURE rated games that let you e-develop your animal instincts lusts.

DO YOU WANT A BIGGER PENIS OMG WTF LOL?!1
 
I defintely agree with Wooz on most counts.

How cool would it have been to JOIN THE ENCLAVE? Wouldn't that blow your mind? An evil character should've had this option, to further accentuate his decline into corruption, and, basically, expediency, that underscored his entire adventure after leaving Arroyo.

Why is it that a Berserker Childkiller Porn Star Gigolo Gravedigger is still looked upon with reverence by his people? HE deserved to get his ass kicked out of Arroyo's new society, good ending or no!
 
Lazarus Plus said:
Was it a bug that there was no good ending for the Deathclaws, or an intentional design decision? ( I assume intentional but my memory is a little fuzzy.)

I think the bad ending for the deathclaws is actually good. "Genocide is a valuable solution" thing is priceless.
 
Of course it isn't a boyscout game.

Even the apparently simple decision of freeing Adytum from its tyrants is a complex one because it means at least one of the good guys will die the second you make the truth publically known.

It's just frustrating that there IS no way to archieve a good ending for some places (especially when it's caused by a bug). That isn't much better than an ever-positive ending like the one for Arroyo (well, unless your character dies).
 
Ashmo said:
Even the apparently simple decision of freeing Adytum from its tyrants is a complex one because it means at least one of the good guys will die the second you make the truth publically known.

Not unless you press attack swiftly enough and initiate combat.

However, despite I typically play a "good guy", I haven't liberated Adytum on several ocasions. What for? They've got a safe place to live in, what more to want? Those Regulators seem like OK guys ;)
 
Lazarus Plus said:
How cool would it have been to JOIN THE ENCLAVE?

Technically, it'd be impossible. The Enclave planned to destroy all -even slightly mutated- life. Your tribe, and hence you, were part of it.
 
Ashmo said:
Bug. IIRC there are other endings, the conditions just happen to be broken.

Ashmo, are you sure that bad ending for deathclaws was a bug? I remember reading something from one of the developers saying it was a conscious choice to do that. It was supposed to make you enraged at the enclave.
 
Wooz said:
Lazarus Plus said:
How cool would it have been to JOIN THE ENCLAVE?

Technically, it'd be impossible. The Enclave planned to destroy all -even slightly mutated- life. Your tribe, and hence you, were part of it.

Well, you do have me there. But I still felt that some kind of "expedient" solution should have presented itself to an evil character rather than take the noble (and surprisingly violent) "kill anything that opposes me and blow up the Enclave to save the day" path. You know what I mean?
 
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