Unmasking the Gamers: J.E. Sawyer

[WorstUsernameEver]

After talking with senior producer Jason Bergman and senior designer and project director on Dead Money, Old World Blues and Lonesome Road Chris Avellone, Will Ooi turned his attention to New Vegas' and Honest Hearts project director and lead designer J.E. Sawyer for the latest edition of his "Unmasking the Gamers" feature, available both on his blog and on Gamasutra. Here's a couple of snippets:<blockquote>WO: At Black Isle Studios when you were appointed the lead designer of the later-cancelled Fallout 3/Van Buren project, what did you have in mind to bring to the series? We've seen many of those original concepts used in New Vegas - was it always a plan to delve into post-apocalyptic political/religious conflict?

JS: Van Buren was not as political as New Vegas, mostly because the political theatre was west of where the "Prisoner's" story was happening. The religious conflict in New Canaan was restricted to that area, and was mostly an internal conflict rather than one with external pressure.

As for what I wanted to bring to the series, personally, I was initially interested in adjusting mechanics, making gameplay more enjoyable, and making as many player builds viable and rewarding as was practical. At the beginning of the project, I was just the lead system designer. It was only later, after Chris Avellone left Black Isle, that I took over as the game's lead designer. The majority of the story content had already been developed by Chris. I was mostly re-arranging the content into something I thought our shrinking team could get done.

[..]

WO: Based on the answers on your Formspring account and also New Vegas and the Honest Hearts DLC, you seem passionate on incorporating a balanced, worldly view into your games. Do you see the medium as possibly being a foundation for education?

JS: I think all methods of communication can be didactic, but I prefer provoking players to start an internal dialogue rather than presenting a "correct" world view or opinion. It's one of the reasons I think RPGs have the potential to be so compelling. When you read a book or watch a film -- or even when you play most games -- characters take action and make decisions within the context of a story and the singular narrative the creators have defined. You have the ability to judge those actions as a passive viewer, but that's much different from being asked to actually make the choice yourself.

Ultimately, I want people to be able to relate the problems they face and the choices they make in games to the real world. Some people view games as pure escapism. I am not interested in making games that promote the individual's retreat from the world. I want to make games that create worlds parallel to our own, that make players compare and contrast the things they experience in games with what is happening all around us every day.</blockquote>

 

[Surf Solar]

Ultimately, I want people to be able to relate the problems they face and the choices they make in games to the real world. Some people view games as pure escapism. I am not interested in making games that promote the individual's retreat from the world. I want to make games that create worlds parallel to our own, that make players compare and contrast the things they experience in games with what is happening all around us every day.

This is an interesting quote. Personally, I often thought too "what would happen if this would happen in our world too?" - but basing an entire game around it? I don't know...

Contrary to Josh, I do play or make games to "escape" from the real world, to have fun outsides its boundaries. Isn't that what videogames were initially made for? I don't think that videogames are ready to serve as some sort of eudcational device as written above, I personally wouldn't want that.

 

[Brother None]

I don't think that videogames are ready to serve as some sort of eudcational device as written above.

Why not?

Also games having some meaning does not contradict them being fun, as is true for books and films as well.

 

[Surf Solar]

I am not talking about meaning, ofcourse this is important. I was merely talking about something like "here, gamer, we show you now what happened in history in the year 1xxx" and whatnot...

Because if it's done wrong, it looks like the game thinks I am stupid and must teach me some things I probably know already anyway and so on. You know I really like the idea and have often considerd putting similar stuff in my mod too, but then I thought "what would it really add to the game? Would it add fun gameplay?" - and as I myself noticed that I can not deliver on all these aspects - I just put the idea aside. In New Vegas it was similar, some nice ideas were put to an extreme, like the entire conflict with the legion, and how history would repeat itself etc. This was really nice, but stretched out to a point where it became uncanny for me, talking with Ceasar about Hegels Dialectics, ancient rome and what not. I thought, as the whole Legion, felt out of place. But that's just my opinion.

tl;dr= I like thought provoking games and story archs, but please no "lessons" in a game.

 

[Kerr-Plomb]

Ultimately, I want people to be able to relate the problems they face and the choices they make in games to the real world. Some people view games as pure escapism. I am not interested in making games that promote the individual's retreat from the world. I want to make games that create worlds parallel to our own, that make players compare and contrast the things they experience in games with what is happening all around us every day.

This is an interesting quote. Personally, I often thought too "what would happen if this would happen in our world too?" - but basing an entire game around it? I don't know...

Contrary to Josh, I do play or make games to "escape" from the real world, to have fun outsides its boundaries. Isn't that what videogames were initially made for? I don't think that videogames are ready to serve as some sort of eudcational device as written above, I personally wouldn't want that.

Never played Braid?

 

[Jabu]

I am not talking about meaning, ofcourse this is important. I was merely talking about something like "here, gamer, we show you now what happened in history in the year 1xxx" and whatnot...

Because if it's done wrong, it looks like the game thinks I am stupid and must teach me some things I probably know already anyway and so on. You know I really like the idea and have often considerd putting similar stuff in my mod too, but then I thought "what would it really add to the game? Would it add fun gameplay?" - and as I myself noticed that I can not deliver on all these aspects - I just put the idea aside. In New Vegas it was similar, some nice ideas were put to an extreme, like the entire conflict with the legion, and how history would repeat itself etc. This was really nice, but stretched out to a point where it became uncanny for me, talking with Ceasar about Hegels Dialectics, ancient rome and what not. I thought, as the whole Legion, felt out of place. But that's just my opinion.

tl;dr= I like thought provoking games and story archs, but please no "lessons" in a game.

Yeah but that's exactly not what Sawyer was talking about.

That conversation with Caesar was sort of awkwardly handled, as it seemed weird he'd have the patience to explain himself to a wasteland ignoramus he'd just met. That seemed contrary to his abrasive character. If handled a bit more subtly, though, I think it could've worked. By the time you meet him face to face, you've made a name for yourself. It'd be appropriately vain for him to want to flaunt his knowledge to one of the waste's most interesting characters of recent time.

And I think we all agree the Legion as a whole was out of place and a pretty stupid idea.

Never played Braid?

This is sarcastic, right?

 

[Brother None]

Braid is a good example of a game lost in its own pretension.

I am not talking about meaning, ofcourse this is important. I was merely talking about something like "here, gamer, we show you now what happened in history in the year 1xxx" and whatnot...

I don't think that's what he means. Sawyer is a big fan of obnoxiously pretentious writing, like U Eco, and that where shit like Hegelian dialectics inappropriately sneaks into dialog.

That's too in-your-face though, that's too didactic, but that's a minor part of what he means. The crux of the experience is gathering information on intelligently designed factions and then being provoked to think about their pros and cons to make a decision. Can you do that without ranting about dialectics? Yeah, that was clumsy, but the intelligent, sensible thinking of each faction is still key.

The faction-based narrative is perfect for it, even if New Vegas fell short, especially because of the underdesigned Legion, and the "fail to show-don't-tell" nature of NCR's shortcomings.

 

[Kerr-Plomb]

Never played Braid?

This is sarcastic, right?

Of course.

 

[ramessesjones]

I am not talking about meaning, ofcourse this is important. I was merely talking about something like "here, gamer, we show you now what happened in history in the year 1xxx" and whatnot...

I gained interest in Chinese history from playing Romance of the Three Kingdoms games, so there can be a place for straightforward educational content if the game play is fun.

As far as teaching a lesson, I think the leaving the choice up to the player makes the game less preachy that games that try to hammer home their game philosophical point with their overdone, more straight forward storylines (like Fallout 3's sacrifice theme or whatever Metal Gear is trying to preach about). After all if you don't like talking philosophy with Caesar you can just shoot him in the face and leave (I think sounding like a pretentious college student was purposefully part of Caesar's design, as a sort of example of how dangerous even a small amount of knowledge can be in the wrong hands).

While games were created for escape, they were also created to do so in an interactive way, that often challenged your mind. As games have become more modern, many developers seem to want to move to a more "cinematic" experience, but to me that is often too passive for a media whose greatest strength is it ability to directly interact with its audience. For me at least, if I wanted passive escapism, I'd just watch television.

 

[Walpknut]

I like Sawyer, he is a prety cool guy, eh is cynical and ain't afraid of anything.

I like what he said about religion being looked upon in videogames in the most risk free way posible by using proxies being kind of boring and being an interesting topic that people should explore more without threating it like a hydrocefalic infant.
On the discussio nabout whether games should or shouldn't be educational tools like Sawyer says, I think they can be both things, Play Godhand and Catherine, DMC and Plane Escape Torment.

 

[Guiltyofbeingtrite]

Best Educational game of all time? Mario is Missing.

 

[SharkClub]

JES is underrated, haters gonna hate.

 

[Surf Solar]

Plane Escape Torment.

How is this game educational, btw? It is very thought provoking, but educational?

And please, no religion in videogames.

 

[Crni Vuk]

Age of Empires 2 had quite a huge chunk of information regarding medieval times, units and technology. I know I loved reading its encyclopedia not to mention the campaign was at least somewhat based on historic events. I miss such games. It was pretty great. And while it sure was not "correct" in everything (it is not meant to be a history lesson) it makes sure you at leats heard the names Jean D'arc, Friedrich Barbarossa or Salah ad-Din.

 

[Courier]

Age of Empires 2 had quite a huge chunk of information regarding medieval times, units and technology. I know I loved reading its encyclopedia not to mention the campaign was at least somewhat based on historic events. I miss such games. It was pretty great. And while it sure was not "correct" in everything (it is not meant to be a history lesson) it makes sure you at leats heard the names Jean D'arc, Friedrich Barbarossa or Salah ad-Din.

Yeah I've learned a ridiculous amount of history from the Civilization series and its mods. Knowing history helps you perform better in the Civ games.

 

[Walpknut]

Plane Escape Torment.

How is this game educational, btw? It is very thought provoking, but educational?

And please, no religion in videogames.

Educational was the wrong idea, and you were the oens that used it first, so whatI meant was tought provoking.

 

[Kerr-Plomb]

Yeah I've learned a ridiculous amount of history from the Civilization series and its mods. Knowing history helps you perform better in the Civ games.

In many games you don't even realize that you learn something, sometimes it is even something really minor.

Battlefield 1942 players can tell you much about the battle of el alamain or games like civ and the total war series, even if of course in many aspects outdated, give you a good overview of geographical locations of nations and a bit of history.

 

[Guiltyofbeingtrite]

I probably took a senior seminar on ethics of bionanotechnology due to playing Metal Gear Solid and Deus Ex. Parasite Eve perked my interests in biology before that. I don't study/do either in my career but the ethics courses are important to me.

I'm also more than happy to see "religion" in video games, especially rpgs. Religion is relevant whether you like it or not in nearly all facets of life, it would be weird to not see it in an rpg with a believable world.