US Troops Deployed on Home Soil

[Ozrat]

There's a lot happening these days...

I just became aware that a brigade of US troops was deployed here on home soil on October 1st. The first deployment of its kinds since the Civil War. These troops are directly controlled by the President... not Congress.

The army's version of the story: http://www.armytimes.com/news/2008/09/army_homeland_090708w/
Another interpretation: http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/09/24/army/

A recent interview with Naomi Wolf, author of "Give me Liberty" and "Fascist America in 10 Easy Steps": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XgkeTanCGI

And here's one of our congressmen on c-span telling us that he and many others were threatened with martial law if they didn't pass the bail-out bill: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaG9d_4zij8

I'm really a bit speechless. It is hard for me to fathom the implications. Hitler gained power through such fear-mongering. Though everything we feel about our country would tell us this is impossible... one cannot ignore the facts. Journalists have been arrested. Those speaking out including university professors have been put on lists denying them the ability to board an airplane.

We cannot be afraid to speak out against injustice.

 

[SuAside]

Another interpretation: http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/09/24/army/

dead link is dead.

doesn't load. the NSA killed it.

but anyhow, the belgian army helps out all the time in the 'homeland'. there's no problem with an army being deployed in their own country you know. just takes some decent regulation. you won't automatically decend into an african dictatorship state, ye know. who's fearmongering now?

that said, the USA is going completely wacky nowadays... or well, it becomes more obvious that they are wacky and have always been wacky.

 

[Pope Viper]

This who thing is spreading like a disease. I've lost about 25000 so far this year.

GD sub-prime mortagages.

 

[B5C]

Hippie..

Your paranoia is the humor i heard in weeks. I think you need to stop reading from conspiracy sites.

 

[Ozrat]

there's no problem with an army being deployed in their own country you know. just takes some decent regulation.

I thought that was why we have the National Guard, so why are we deploying the troops at home for a full year too? Something smells preemptive here. My understanding is that it is the president that has control over these special troops, not the congress, which seems to provide a lack of regulation.

Pope Viper: Sorry to hear about your loss, but wrong topic.

B5C: Glad to lighten up your day, but do you have any actual comments on this? This is based on facts, where is the conspiracy?

 

[Stag]

PLAY LOUD

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-au_rqpDHng[/youtube]


Anyway, there's this cool new thing you may have heard about: it's called FUCKING METAL.

Grow some balls, Ozzy.

 

[B5C]

Well lets see:

The first deployment of its kinds since the Civil War. These troops are directly controlled by the President... not Congress.

When did the Constitution say congress is the commander and chief of the US military?

The you tube video of the Democrat congress man is nothing official. There is not a good chance martial law is going to happen if the bill did not pass. He was spilling out hearsay and try to panic the other congressmen to pass the bill.

You need to stop exaggerate the news reports.

Also the US Army troops doing in training in civilian areas in NORMAL! It's actually a good idea to use US military to be in areas that are need of help with the local national guard. Also the US Army has already been doing that years with previous disasters.

http://www.usace.army.mil/missions/

Hey what about Viking Metal??

<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/eABVwEgzIss&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed>

 

[Deleted member 53669]

Fuck amon amarath compared to the furry of Mastodon.


Anyways, as for the topic at hand... I reserve my right to be a communist terrorist with balls.

 

[Ah-Teen]

I'm with Ozzy on this one. I don't see any need at all for them to be deployed at home at all and I'm sure if something were to happen to tense the population up their presence would only make a bad situation worse.

The job they are slated to do is already the job of the national guard (with the exception that the president cannot call them into action by himself. See Katrina for details) and in a time of real emergency the president could immediately activate any extra forces needed and have them to the situation within a days if not within hours.

 

[SuAside]

My understanding is that it is the president that has control over these special troops, not the congress, which seems to provide a lack of regulation.

newsflash, a democratic body cannot be the commander in chief. military chain of commands need a single end-point. you cannot have a few hundred dimwit politicians who change their mind every 2 seconds as the top end of the chain of command. i know of not a single country that allows full control of the army by their congress or parliament.
besides the congress or parliament can call upon the President or Prime-Minister to give justification for the orders he's given the military.

hell, the belgian army just recently invaded belgium for lulz (and mostly training). we didn't end up with a dictatorship. we do this every few year. it's decent training.

but seriously: yes, your president is a total tard. yes, your politicians are fucking spineless morons. yes, your "land of the free" is a load of bullshit. BUT there is nothing fucking wrong with deploying troops on your home soil. there's plenty of reasons to be pissed off, but this really is just another form of fearmongering.

 

[TheGM]

But aren't the National Gaurd busy fighting in Iraq?

 

[Ah-Teen]

hell, the belgian army just recently invaded belgium for lulz (and mostly training). we didn't end up with a dictatorship. we do this every few year. it's decent training.

Thats not the problem with this. The problem is that we already have a part of our military to fill those jobs, and we have many ways to train our troops that won't piss off already angry people.

Americans don't use water pumps for crowd control because of images like this of blacks getting hosed because of protesting:

Americans don't like soldiers for crowd control or police because of images like this of Kent State:

The perception is far more dangerous than the actual threat. For Europeans it's normal. Your police look like soldiers half the time. For the US it's different. We fear our soldiers being used against us.

It doesn't matter if it's a legitimate use. Reason doesn't work on emotional charged crowds.

 

[Tagaziel]

The perception is far more dangerous than the actual threat. For Europeans it's normal. Your police look like soldiers half the time. For the US it's different. We fear our soldiers being used against us.

...what?

Our policemen look like policemen.

Riot police, now that's a different pair of brahmin. They are often deployed, but primarily as crowd control rather than to suppress anything.

Basically "Do what you want, but do not cross the policemen line."

 

[SuAside]

Americans don't use water pumps for crowd control because of images like this of blacks getting hosed because of protesting:

ah, water canons. it's great. a great belgian export product.

turns those smelly football supporters into clean dripping shades of their former violent self.

Americans don't like soldiers for crowd control or police because of images like this of Kent State:

people die in protests when cops are used as well. it's rare but it happens.

The perception is far more dangerous than the actual threat. For Europeans it's normal. Your police look like soldiers half the time.

euhm, no. just no.

 

[Ah-Teen]

The perception is far more dangerous than the actual threat. For Europeans it's normal. Your police look like soldiers half the time. For the US it's different. We fear our soldiers being used against us.

...what?

Our policemen look like policemen.

Riot police, now that's a different pair of brahmin. They are often deployed, but primarily as crowd control rather than to suppress anything.

Basically "Do what you want, but do not cross the policemen line."

Police uniforms and black uniforms and riot gear we accept, its normal. But put clearly identifiable soldiers and our attitudes change.

Admitedly, I can't speak for the whole US. I've only lived in oregon and utah. I am also not an expert in psychology of the american brain. But that is my opinion on the outcome of using soldiers in the US based on what I've learned.

We are of the absurd opinion that soldiers in the streets are what constitutes a police state or a dictatorship.

Policemen with rifles on every corner and in combat gear all the time we see as a dictatorial state.

It's absurd, but thats what we(the crowd) envision.

Americans don't like soldiers for crowd control or police because of images like this of Kent State:

people die in protests when cops are used as well. it's rare but it happens.

Yeah, but it's the police. Police shoots kills 5 in riot isn't news. Soldiers shoots one in riot it's head line news.

 

[SuAside]

Yeah, but it's the police. Police shoots kills 5 in riot isn't news. Soldiers shoots one in riot it's head line news.

only in Amerikkka...

 

[TheWesDude]

this is a GOOD thing.

you dont know why, its understandable, u are an idiot.

national guard can only be deployed by the president at the request of a govenor.

if the govenor is out of communication during a crisis, or is unable to make the request, the president cannot send in the national guard.

if they setup a situation where they can deploy a trained force without the requirement of a govenor requesting assistance, then it greatly increases the speed of assistance in situations where the govenor cant or simply wont due to political/emoboy reasons.

it took a long time to get help to people in orleans due to "the system" and its inherent red tape. now imagine if there was a military group that could have been sent there within hours rather than days it took to get help there.


but yea, you are right, lets leave the current situation in-tact and keep the circumstances that created the 3 day delay in getting assistance to orleans as-is. nobody died or was seriously affected by the delay right?

 

[Loxley]

Police uniforms and black uniforms and riot gear we accept, its normal. But put clearly identifiable soldiers and our attitudes change.

Admitedly, I can't speak for the whole US. I've only lived in oregon and utah. I am also not an expert in psychology of the american brain. But that is my opinion on the outcome of using soldiers in the US based on what I've learned.

When I studied in the US the teacher dropped the idea that since so many members of certain gangs in the southern california area was armed illegal imigrants and that they therefore could be seen as foreign invaders. And as a result of this one should be able to use the army to fight the gangs. Allmost all people in class agreed.

I was the only foreigner, and the only one that disagreed openly. So I suppose that perception is different depending on where you are.

Edit: Oh and norwegian police is not carrying guns at a regular basis unless special permission is given. That is really a very army like police for right?

 

[Sorrow]

In my book, all armed gangs are foreign armies.

 

[Sander]

Wait, what kind of weirdo vision do you people have of Europe? You think our policemen look like soldiers, and that we're used to having an army walk across the streets?

Also, for a country that's supposedly so proud of its foreign troops, there's an awful lot of paranoia surrounding those very same troops.