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Brother None

Brother None

This ghoul has seen it all
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Glittering gems of hatred has seeped unto several forums, and it now caught the eyes of the Gamers with Jobs' conference calls guys. From their conference call, minute 26:12 (sorry for transcribing word-for-word, GWJ guys, it's my revenge for your not linking to the article itself):<blockquote>- But y'know what, though, like you were saying...you don't think it's a bad thing...and it isn't, to really be enjoying what it is you're doing, right? So if you're really enjoying a lot of the Xbox 360 games, then you're going to talk about how much you've enjoyed it and your experiences with it and hope people agree with you. It's when you take it to the extreme...with some of these characters, we've heard, talking about Vanguard and, I'm sure, many other different games out there.

- Oooh, I've got one (...) No Mutants Allowed, the Fallout fansite. There was a "gem of hatred article", which is what they do to discuss, this is a Fallout fansite, discussing Fallout fans. There's this kind of delusion of granduer that comes from being in that environment for so long and feeling like this marginal...it's like they had their own weird Holocaust when Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel came out to the X-Box. They had this weird victim thing and he actually talks about that. We'll link to it [you didn't - ed], it's actually pretty interesting stuff, but I want to read...he's adressing now, as a fan, Bethesda, because they're doing Fallout 3:

[he quotes the final paragraph of glittering gems of hatred]

- See, this is what I'm talking about. This is ridiculous! To be that involved in a game and one of the reasons I don't get so involved in this is because I hate hype...

[continue on 29:39]

- You really can't [win], and with fans, especially with the Fallout fans, who have just been beaten down by Interplay's poor handling so many times. Who are so, almost, broken, so over the top. We don't know *anything* about Bethesda and what they're doing for Fallout 3 yet, we don't know squat. And yet they are completely obsessed and they have this delusion that the fanbase of Fallout, and they talk amongst each other and have their own community (...), they feel like "We make or break this game", because our fandom is that big. (...)

- It's like when someone is cheering for their team and they feel that if they don't have the hat on and the sweatshirt on, they're not a real fan and their team will lose.

(...)

- A lot of the stuff, and we're talking about Fallout, is really just nostalgia. It's not that they actually give a crap about the next game, as much that they want to reclaim the last game.

- Don't you see, Alex, they want to have that same high they had when they played the first one.

- because he actually goes on and on about how the industry is obsessed with innovation and the real step forward would be taking a step back and using the old design style from the original game. That would be the real "innovation".

[sounds of dissent and disagreement, "that's not a fan, that borders on being a psychopath"]

- Oh, and Fallout fans, when this gets linked from your site and you want [to send] angry emails, I said a couple of episodes ago that I was worried about Bethesda handling Fallout [3], so don't send me emails</blockquote>We won't.

Discuss.

Link: Conference Call 20 on GWJ
 
It's interesting that they use the same football-simile that glittering gems used itself, but don't draw the same comparison.

They compare fandom to wearing your team's shirt and believing that'll make them win, aka dedication, but not necessarily results. The comparison drawn in glittering gems is that certain franchise, like the NFL franchises, float on their fans, and you can call them crazy and you'd often be right, but they're still the lifeblood of the franchise.

Same simile, different conclusions. Interesting.

I think they kind of dropped the ball on the innovation thing. Is it really just nostalgia or is it a matter of conflicting design ideas neither of which is inherently superior. They just discount the argument as "fanism", not really going deeper into it.

Also, I'm a borderline psychopath. Go me. I like how they think a simple article can be psychotic but calling someone a psychotic over said article is ok. That's always how it works, though, isn't it?

Also also, this reminds me of a vital point that keeps cropping up, the kind of defeatism vs idealism, pragmatics vs dreamers, they mention several time in the entire thing (which is quite good, actually, though not as insightful as it could have been), that this kind of intense fandom isn't "worth it", that (as an agnostic, he says for some reason), he's grown beyond it, or at least is not in a phase in his life where he can attribute any value to it. Two things:

1) Their argument is that the overal effect of *both* the negative frothing-in-the-mouth media/fans and the hype-up media/fans on the end product is negative, that it hurts the product rather than benifit from it. An interesting point, though for some reason the sentence "I can't enjoy the game because they pointed out the flaws" always rubs me the wrong way. Discuss.

2) One of the prevailing undercurrents, as expressed so beautifully on our forums by tax, is that dedication is not worth it, that it's swimming against the tide no matter what, and that dedicating so much time to a single object is a waste of time.

Personally I disagree. To draw a bad historical parralel, from the 16th to the 18th century paintings were just commodities, mass-products, not art. They *became* art through perception. Why would this not be true for games, and what is "wrong" about wanting to duplicate an experience you enjoyed. They seem to disagree slightly amongst themselves on this topic, but what do you think?
 
Interesting read, i bet people here are gonna take it quite far in many directions. Hopefully this will get more people to read Glittering Gems and all.

I agree, too bad they didn't get a more informed and proper explanation/simile and such out there.....

iamb not sure wether this will help us more than it will make us look like we are stupid sports fans? lol

wood?
 
Goweigus said:
iamb not sure wether this will help us more than it will make us look like we are stupid sports fans? lol
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Oh, pfft, any press is positive press, though I have noticed glittering gems ending up in some places where people didn't bother to read it and just took the excuse to flame NMA.

These guys obviously took the time to read it and think about it. Their chuckles and derogatorations of the final paragraph of glittering gems is fairly understandeable. I know, I know, I wrote it myself, but I wrote it to produce exactly this effect, to be slightly less bland and force people into pausing and thinking, for better or worse.

Obviously, the whole innovation thing wasn't their topic anyway, though I guess I should feel offended by their reaction to that and by being called a psychopath (I'm not, though. This is the internet)...wonder what they'd have to say on the whole what is innovation question posed above, tho'
 
Kharn said:
Obviously, the whole innovation thing wasn't their topic anyway, though I guess I should feel offended by their reaction to that and by being called a psychopath (I'm not, though. This is the internet)...wonder what they'd have to say on the whole what is innovation question posed above, tho'
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If I were them... I'd fear your psychopathic wrath... I know I do *winces*
 
Yeah, well, y'know, being a psychopath, I've got it all planned out anyway. Any day now I will walk into the nearest gaming store wielding an axe and screaming "INNOVATION IS ALWAYS TAKING A STEP BACK".

Don't forget, though, when my megalomaniac delusion-of-granduer world-domination plans come to fruition, I'll put pretty much everyone against the wall, 'cept you guys.

I love you guys.
 
axee? wouldnt a plasma pistol or maul be more appropriate? :twisted:

i didnt really realize they had payed that much attention to it, oh well
great that NMA is getting some understanding out there W007!
 
Kharn said:
Yeah, well, y'know, being a psychopath, I've got it all planned out anyway. Any day now I will walk into the nearest gaming store wielding an axe and screaming "INNOVATION IS ALWAYS TAKING A STEP BACK".

Don't forget, though, when my megalomaniac delusion-of-granduer world-domination plans come to fruition, I'll put pretty much everyone against the wall, 'cept you guys.

I love you guys.
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*Kneels* Yes oh exalted one! How may we mere mortals hope to attain such an enlightened state as you? Perhaps... We should rid ourselves of our worldly possessions and take on new beginnings. I shall be called... 67.3 in this new world you will so valiantly lead.

Let all whom oppose the new order tremble before mighty Kharn!!!
 
Kharn, did you listen to the January 31st edition, it had some stuff on F3 as well, a few points (around the 37 minute mark)....

We have a voice in the conference call with Sean Sands, but it was actually a great discussion, in my opinion...they said everything we have said at some point....they even raised the point of it exposing a whole new generation to Fallout 1 & 2...the one pathetic aspect was that Shawn Andrich admitted he played tactics before he played FO1 or 2...which says a lot about his knowledge of gaming in general....But Sean Sands intimated our feelings of:

"I don’t like it, I don’t like it"..."I want more Fallout in the way that I know it, I’m old, I'm set in my ways, I’m going to take my geritol, I’m going to complain about my hip and I want top-down, isometric views on my pc or get it the FUCK out!"..."putting it on the 360, screams to me, every time I hear about a great PC game gets put on a console, I think they are gonna dumb it the hell down because they always, always have"…"Lets not even talk about what happened to Baldur's Gate on the Consoles"

Here's the link: http://www.gamerswithjobs.com/taxonomy/term/408
 
I know you've all got shit to do, so I'll make this as brief as possible.

I played the first two games religiously. While they played, I listened to Meddle on repeat and absorbed myself as best I could into that escapist world. How much better is it to believe you can rummage the wastes and punch raiders in the eyes with a power fist than to accept responsibility for your own life? How perfect is the vision of careening through the desert with a mutant and a tribal, gripping the wheel and hoping you'll make it to the next town?

So when I read the forums every day, it's because of expectation. I know that expectation leads to disappointment, but I don't give a fuck.

Want to know why Fallout fans are psychopathic? It's because those games fucking mattered, because they felt GOOD. They were inclusive, not alienating, and they were escapist.

Recently, my girlfriend was watching that horrendous Playboy show where stupid rich fake plastic bitches complain that they've forgotten a present for 'Hef' in the car. They were having a slumber party and my girlfriend asked me if that wasn't every guy's dream. No, it's not. Sex is great and all, but it looked like a fucking terrible alternative to travelling through the wastelands low on gas and just WAITING for some zombies to look at you funny.

But alas, I'm off topic.

What we're talking about is protecting something that was important to the world of gaming. Something deep and personal. Gaming is a craft that is being diluted by the Xbox world. Gears of War was great, sure. But when it comes down to it, we're just looking at another FPS. They can only get so much better before we remember that they have no soul.

You're right. Innovation is key. Bring it back. Because the classics kick ass. Everything that we check off as a good choice when our seething fanbase plays FO3 will be an allusion, a reference, an escape.

Call it nostalgia if you want. I call it a good fucking decision.

Bethesda, I call it listening.
 
Psychopath? (-3 Int.....)

Kharn, they seem to see not only youself as being representitive of the community, but also as the community of being representative of you. They haven't understood the context of the article, or really who you are and how you represent yourself, and in so doing they've simply resorted to lazy stereotyping. In the process, they've managed to attribute the opinions of the naysayers to yourself, whereas it seem fairly obvious to me that - especially under the circustances you discussed in Glittering Gems... you've been pretty decent and even-handed in dealing with hype and rumour (they won't have seen your various pleas for caution with respect to rumour, for instance).

Still, you might hope that people actually track down the article and this site to see what its all about...
 
When I told my girlfriend that there is a possibility that Fallout 3 will be Oblivion with guns , she said and I quote:


" Oh! But this is disgusting! They dont have the moral authority to do that! "

Does this makes her a psychopath too?
 
Grotesque said:
When I told my girlfriend that there is a possibility that Fallout 3 will be Oblivion with guns , she said and I quote:


" Oh! But this is disgusting! They dont have the moral authority to do that! "
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*Sigh*

My girlfriend only laughs at me whenever I'm ranting about Fallout 3... :roll:
 
It's evident from those guys mental diarrhea that they haven't understood. They read the article yes, yet they didn't understand it.

That aside, it's evident that Bethesda is trying to pull a FoPoS on us. They'll rape the game, Oblivion-ate it and when the hordes of console-trash get their cheap kicks, they'll claim it to be the "true" Fallout concept and we will stand as a bunch of assholes and narrow-minded, old gits. I say fuck them and fuck the masses. If accepting values that I find repulsive and discarding my experience to "embrace" the new Fallout is what they want, they can suck on my Panamanian dick. I never discriminated people on the basis of race, ethnicity, the types of games they play or even political beliefs, I do it on a much harsher basis: their willful stupidity.
 
Recently, my girlfriend was watching that horrendous Playboy show where stupid rich fake plastic bitches complain that they've forgotten a present for 'Hef' in the car. They were having a slumber party and my girlfriend asked me if that wasn't every guy's dream. No, it's not. Sex is great and all, but it looked like a fucking terrible alternative to travelling through the wastelands low on gas and just WAITING for some zombies to look at you funny.
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Yeah man, I get to hear chicks complaining about every single thing, always asking for help and using 'being a girl' like some everyday excuse.Don't get me started on the rich ones...

My girlfriend only laughs at me whenever I'm ranting about Fallout 3...
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I got my last one to actually love Fallout. She even reads these forums...hey sweety.


And finally, some on-topic bullshit.

Kharn, I agree with you that any publicity is good, but I've never heard of these Gamers with Jobs (noobs, beta tester and game attendant don't count) and frankly, they really sound logically challenged, I guess I'm just used to these forums and some inteligent people.


edit grammar
 
Really disappointing that everyone that has anything to say about Fallout fans talks about same problems they can't understand.

Ok, people criticize our not liking of the new design that will F3 have. So let me ask them this one: Ever heard of the phrase: Don't change your wining horse? It doesn't necessary have to be a good thing but it is in most cases. Lets have a look at, lets say, Need For Speed games. Design didn't change for 11 years, from the first game that is. So lets innovate! Lets put it in a top down view! That would be cool! Ask N4S fans what they think about that. They would probably stone developers to death. The only reason Bethsoft wants to change the original Fallout design is because they have finished engine and want to earn lots of extra cash with Oblivion copy in PA setting and with famous names.

We have every fu.king right to be mad.
 
Kharn said:
1) Their argument is that the overal effect of *both* the negative frothing-in-the-mouth media/fans and the hype-up media/fans on the end product is negative, that it hurts the product rather than benifit from it. An interesting point, though for some reason the sentence "I can't enjoy the game because they pointed out the flaws" always rubs me the wrong way. Discuss.
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Personally it makes me more interested in playing a game I'm interested in if I do know the flaws.
I mean,if I don't know about them and play the game I might get frustrated and angry,if I know about them I'll just think "Oh,there it is" and thereby it won't be frustrating,only an obstacle.

Personally I disagree. To draw a bad historical parralel, from the 16th to the 18th century paintings were just commodities, mass-products, not art. They *became* art through perception. Why would this not be true for games, and what is "wrong" about wanting to duplicate an experience you enjoyed. They seem to disagree slightly amongst themselves on this topic, but what do you think?
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Yeah,gaming is about re-experiencing more of what you got the last time,it's the sole reason for sequels,people want the same thing again.
Sure,they want some innovation,better execution,bigger game and so on,but someone buying Sims 2 is not expecting -or would be happy with- a copy of Unreal 2...

Xerxes said:
Lets have a look at, lets say, Need For Speed games. Design didn't change for 11 years, from the first game that is. So lets innovate! Lets put it in a top down view! That would be cool! Ask N4S fans what they think about that. They would probably stone developers to death.
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Being a fan of NFS myself,I can certainly say I would not like it...
I started with NFS3 and like you say it's more or less still the same.
Sure they've expanded the concept by adding cops,remaking your cars and so on,but the basic concept is still an arcade racing game.

Strangely though -now that you mention NFS- noone has taken that or other similar ongoing series and asked the question you just asked...(it has of course not happened to these fans,but the rethorical question should be asked by anyone slandering us FO fans)
But I guess that the "eleven angry -and obviously psycopathic- guys on a website" are open for attack without any questions asked or any hindsight/unconventional thinking used...
 
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