Why We Love… Harold And Bob

[Vik]

True, which is why a good bunch of F3 players actually got the Fallout Trilogy pack and played the first two games later on. But I can't see the average CoD fool playing a NES or a Fallout game all that much.

 

[Crni Vuk]

question is if you want those "fool" in your fanbase anyway ?

Its just a problem of game companies today that they try to get some fish from everywhere. Meaning to throw out games which everyone should enjoy - leading to such meaningless games like the new Medal of Honor or some 212235 Cod clones. I dont expect from someone with a shooter fetish to either like/love Fallout 1 or Jagged Alliance. But I would not expect the same vice verca.

 

[SharkClub]

I'm surprised they didn't mention more of his role in F1/2.

Fallout 1 and 2 never existed...ask any 16 year old.

I am deeply insulted.

 

[UncannyGarlic]

True, which is why a good bunch of F3 players actually got the Fallout Trilogy pack and played the first two games later on.

Define good amount. You know this... how?

But I can't see the average CoD fool playing a NES or a Fallout game all that much.

You mean casual gamers and gamers who are locked into specific genres/games don't go digging around in old games? Weird.

 

[Aphyosis]

Fallout 1 and 2 never existed...ask any 16 year old.

I am deeply insulted.

Sweeping generalization, but unfortunately for our generation Reconite, mostly true.

 

[Vik]

True, which is why a good bunch of F3 players actually got the Fallout Trilogy pack and played the first two games later on.

Define good amount. You know this... how?

Can't back up myself with any statistics or whatever, but I know a lot of people that bought F1/2 after they played F3. A lot of similar posts on forums too and the fact that some time after F3's release many stores started selling F1 and 2 in DVD cases, stores that pretty much sell only current gen games. My point is that people who were truly interested in the universe after playing F3 and can enjoy 2d games most likely did check out the first two games and now don't make silly statements. But I don't think you can really blame the young console crowd that didn't either. It's like blaming monkeys for not being able to drive a car. In both cases their brains just can't handle it.

On a side note, I am interested to see Interplay finally releasing info on how many copies were sold after F3's release.

You mean casual gamers and gamers who are locked into specific genres/games don't go digging around in old games? Weird.

No, not what I meant. Sure, playing super mario on the nes is still amusing to this day, but playing a complicated and unintuitive (by today's standards anyway) 2D game with turn based combat, in front of a PC for more than 10 hours is not something your average console CoD wanker will be able to pull off.

 

[Morbus]

Besides, current gen gamers should be blamed for buying shit like Halo, CoD and Gears by the millions, not for a lack of knowledge on a game that was made when they were like 3-4 years old.

Well, considering Halo, CoD and Gears are miles ahead of Fallout 3 in terms of quality, I don't see where you're coming from.

No, not what I meant. Sure, playing super mario on the nes is still amusing to this day, but playing a complicated and unintuitive (by today's standards anyway) 2D game with turn based combat, in front of a PC for more than 10 hours is not something your average console CoD wanker will be able to pull off.

I'll butt in if I may, but super mario on the nes is FRUSTATING AS HELL AND ANYONE WHO ENJOYS SUCH TRIPE SHOULD BE HIT IN THE HEAD WITH A SPADE.

Thanks.

 

[Vik]

Don't mention it.

Well, considering Halo, CoD and Gears are miles ahead of Fallout 3 in terms of quality

That's debatable. The series I mentioned are tasteless, boring, completely unoriginal shooters with very short campaigns. F3 may not be as pretty or well animated, but it's still miles better than those games if you ask me.

 

[Public]

Don't mention it.

Well, considering Halo, CoD and Gears are miles ahead of Fallout 3 in terms of quality

That's debatable. The series I mentioned are tasteless, boring, completely unoriginal shooters with very short campaigns. F3 may not be as pretty or well animated, but it's still miles better than those games if you ask me.

If you ask me, I'd rather play a decent shooter than a clunky FPS-RPG hybrid FO3 is.

 

[UncannyGarlic]

But I don't think you can really blame the young console crowd that didn't either. It's like blaming monkeys for not being able to drive a car. In both cases their brains just can't handle it.

You don't think that I should blame the young console crowd for not playing an old PC game. How astute. And clearly it has to do with their cognitive abilities and not with the fact that they play games mainly or entirely on consoles.

Can't back up myself with any statistics or whatever, but I know a lot of people that bought F1/2 after they played F3. A lot of similar posts on forums too and the fact that some time after F3's release many stores started selling F1 and 2 in DVD cases, stores that pretty much sell only current gen games. My point is that people who were truly interested in the universe after playing F3 and can enjoy 2d games most likely did check out the first two games and now don't make silly statements.

In other words you're too lazy to look for anything to prove your point so you're just going by anecdotal evidence, which is meaningless in this case. It took me a minute to look up this old news post about it being the ninth best selling PC game for a month (no numbers). Forums are not very representative of sales, especially not forums for the game in discussion (such as a fan site like NMA or BSGF). As for people who liked it most likely checking out the older games, only a subset of those people, those who already play older games, would likely check it out.

No, not what I meant. Sure, playing super mario on the nes is still amusing to this day, but playing a complicated and unintuitive (by today's standards anyway) 2D game with turn based combat, in front of a PC for more than 10 hours is not something your average console CoD wanker will be able to pull off.

I'm pretty sure that you missed the sarcasm there. Also, Fallout really isn't very unintuitive if you've played pretty much any other PC RPG and it comes with a useful instruction manual. Really the only unintuitive thing about it is holding down right click for the options and maybe changing item/weapon use. But you're right and repeating my point, people locked into a genre or who are more casual gamers won't go back and play the old games. This is neither good nor bad, it merely is.

I'll butt in if I may, but super mario on the nes is FRUSTATING AS HELL AND ANYONE WHO ENJOYS SUCH TRIPE SHOULD BE HIT IN THE HEAD WITH A SPADE.

Well to be fair, it's better than Super Mario Bros. 2/The Lost Levels :p. Super Mario Bros. 2 (US) and 3 are both still good games though, even if 2 is also quite brutal. 3 is the most playable these days.

That's debatable. The series I mentioned are tasteless, boring, completely unoriginal shooters with very short campaigns. F3 may not be as pretty or well animated, but it's still miles better than those games if you ask me.

It's a question of whether quantity or quality is more important and of preference of gameplay. Fallout 3 is lower quality but offers more gameplay and sandbox FPS gameplay. The other games are higher quality but are shorter, linear FPSes. I'd add that none of the games are very original.

 

[.Pixote.]

I'm surprised they didn't mention more of his role in F1/2.

Fallout 1 and 2 never existed...ask any 16 year old.

I am deeply insulted.

You might one of the few exceptions ...I do recall sitting my nephews in front of Fallout when they were 10, and watching them blast the crap out of everything, steal every item not tied down...and they loved every second of it. They belong to a generation that has access to almost any game the want (all for free), but so often struggle to play anything older than KOTOR...I wish I could wash my mind of all games I've ever experienced and start again, from the beginning...

 

[grayx]

Don't mention it.

Well, considering Halo, CoD and Gears are miles ahead of Fallout 3 in terms of quality

That's debatable. The series I mentioned are tasteless, boring, completely unoriginal shooters with very short campaigns. F3 may not be as pretty or well animated, but it's still miles better than those games if you ask me.

If you ask me, I'd rather play a decent shooter than a clunky FPS-RPG hybrid FO3 is.

Very true for me. The latter is like a bad sex: yes, it's a sex, but it's bad.

Yes, yes, I know...

 

[Vik]

Depends on if you want to spend 60 bucks on a 4 hour campaign full of same old unoriginal content and explosions. That is even worse than playing Fallout 3, if you ask me.

But I don't think you can really blame the young console crowd that didn't either. It's like blaming monkeys for not being able to drive a car. In both cases their brains just can't handle it.

You don't think that I should blame the young console crowd for not playing an old PC game. How astute. And clearly it has to do with their cognitive abilities and not with the fact that they play games mainly or entirely on consoles.

Can't back up myself with any statistics or whatever, but I know a lot of people that bought F1/2 after they played F3. A lot of similar posts on forums too and the fact that some time after F3's release many stores started selling F1 and 2 in DVD cases, stores that pretty much sell only current gen games. My point is that people who were truly interested in the universe after playing F3 and can enjoy 2d games most likely did check out the first two games and now don't make silly statements.

In other words you're too lazy to look for anything to prove your point so you're just going by anecdotal evidence, which is meaningless in this case. It took me a minute to look up this old news post about it being the ninth best selling PC game for a month (no numbers). Forums are not very representative of sales, especially not forums for the game in discussion (such as a fan site like NMA or BSGF). As for people who liked it most likely checking out the older games, only a subset of those people, those who already play older games, would likely check it out.

Not really sure where you're going with all of this. I mean, your point is, what exactly?

Alright, two things. One - I think that the average CoD player won't be able to appreciate a classic like Fallout 1 because he is young and doesn't have a good enough taste. The fact that big explosions and many hours of the same unoriginal multiplayer is the best entertainment for many. The fact that it's not their platform is one good point, but there's also the fact that a lot of console players have no taste and very low standards when it comes to game quality, preferring big explosions and sharp visuals over anything else. You really think they won't play F1 only because it's on PC?

And two - you're just complaining about me not providing a quick link but still kind of agreeing with me? That's called bullshit pointless argument for the sake of arguing. And back to my original point - it's pretty stupid to be annoyed about 16 year old players not playing 13 year old game. Unless you don't have anything better to do than bitch and argue with no real point in mind.

 

[Public]

...yes, it's a sex, but it's bad.

Oh man, that's soo true what you just said.

The topic kinda reminds of my video I made long time ago before FO3 release.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tToLAHQqPOU[/youtube]

 

[Ausir]

Super Mario Bros. 2 (US) and 3 are both still good games though

What, you mean "Doki Doki Panic with Mushrooms"?

 

[UncannyGarlic]

Alright, two things. One - I think that the average CoD player won't be able to appreciate a classic like Fallout 1 because he is young and doesn't have a good enough taste. The fact that big explosions and many hours of the same unoriginal multiplayer is the best entertainment for many.

You make the same bad assumption that is commonly made in the PC vs console argument that all/most console gamers are in their early-mid teens. This has been demonstrated to be false consistantly with studies of the average age of gamers (a quick google found ESA claiming the average is 34).

The fact that it's not their platform is one good point, but there's also the fact that a lot of console players have no taste and very low standards when it comes to game quality, preferring big explosions and sharp visuals over anything else. You really think they won't play F1 only because it's on PC?

Standards aside, I think the popularity of action games demonstrates more that most gamers prefer quicker games with fast rewards. And no, only an idiot would claim that there is one reason for everything; however, not being PC gamers is clearly a factor. Aesthics (as you brought up earlier) play a role, as does the age of the game, as does the type of game, as do other factors.

And two - you're just complaining about me not providing a quick link but still kind of agreeing with me? That's called bullshit pointless argument for the sake of arguing. And back to my original point - it's pretty stupid to be annoyed about 16 year old players not playing 13 year old game. Unless you don't have anything better to do than bitch and argue with no real point in mind.

I'm not agreeing with you, I'm just saying that your argument is lazy. If you examine the list you'll note that only Empire: Total War is the only game in front of it from 2009. In other words, the sales for that month were not very high (comparitively) for any game. The only implication that one could draw from that is that Fallout: Trilogy was likely financially beneficial to Interplay. You can make no conclusion about who is buying the game. If it were a sudden burst in December 2008, January, and/or Febuary 2009 then you might have a case to make that Fallout 3 sales had a significant impact.

What, you mean "Doki Doki Panic with Mushrooms"?

I do indeed but most people in the West know it as Mario 2, so it's a time saver .

 

[Ausdoerrt]

If you ask me, I'd rather play a decent shooter than a clunky FPS-RPG hybrid FO3 is.

^assuming CoD/Halo are decent shooters.

Well to be fair, it's better than Super Mario Bros. 2/The Lost Levels :p. Super Mario Bros. 2 (US) and 3 are both still good games though, even if 2 is also quite brutal. 3 is the most playable these days.

Ripping off DokiDoki Panikku is probably the best thing that has ever happened to the franchise. The gameplay quality is miles ahead of traditional Mario gameplay. Unfortunately, they seem to have learned little from it.

You make the same bad assumption that is commonly made in the PC vs console argument that all/most console gamers are in their early-mid teens. This has been demonstrated to be false consistantly with studies of the average age of gamers (a quick google found ESA claiming the average is 34).

Except that they don't distinguish between PC and console gamers, and don't give any definition for "game player". So that's pretty inconclusive

 

[Crni Vuk]

Alright, two things. One - I think that the average CoD player won't be able to appreciate a classic like Fallout 1 because he is young and doesn't have a good enough taste. The fact that big explosions and many hours of the same unoriginal multiplayer is the best entertainment for many.

You make the same bad assumption that is commonly made in the PC vs console argument that all/most console gamers are in their early-mid teens. This has been demonstrated to be false consistantly with studies of the average age of gamers (a quick google found ESA claiming the average is 34).

But its much easier today to sell the console as the "family friendly platform" compared to the PC which STILL has somewhat the "its mainly for the geeks" reputation on it. The other situation is that the console offers a much higher amount of entertaiment regarding group-games or social-gaming where you can entertain a whole crowd with a single game. I never seen that working in the same way with the PC. - Except for the mulitplayer part over the internet but that is NOT the same.

Just to go with my own experience (and I dont even own any console), it would happen sometimes that someone would bring his Wii along so we played all together on a big screen at a friends house where we would usualy watch movies together at the weekend. Mariocart just never gets old that way. The bigest you have with the PC that might be similar are lan-sessions but even here youre more playing "next to the people" from your own PC not directly with them. So it is not really the same.

Here the console has a huge advantage. That doesnt tell anything about the gamers or their age. But today for a company it is important if their product is seen as a "friendly" product for the whole family. The PC doesnt really fitt in that spectrum. So naturally many stop to focus on it thinking it would give them less profit. If that is true or not is a different question.

 

[Vik]

You make the same bad assumption that is commonly made in the PC vs console argument that all/most console gamers are in their early-mid teens. This has been demonstrated to be false consistantly with studies of the average age of gamers (a quick google found ESA claiming the average is 34).

Yeah, that's really great and all, apart from missing my point of course. I never said all/most gamers are stupid kids. I was talking about the younger gamers that usually play on consoles and that blaming them for not playing a game that's almost as old as they are is stupid. But hey, don't mind me, continue goggling and stating the obvious.

I'm not agreeing with you, I'm just saying that your argument is lazy. If you examine the list you'll note that only Empire: Total War is the only game in front of it from 2009. In other words, the sales for that month were not very high (comparitively) for any game. The only implication that one could draw from that is that Fallout: Trilogy was likely financially beneficial to Interplay. You can make no conclusion about who is buying the game. If it were a sudden burst in December 2008, January, and/or Febuary 2009 then you might have a case to make that Fallout 3 sales had a significant impact.

Like you truly understood my argument before starting bitch about it. My argument was that since the F3 release sales did increase and F3 players who were interested in the universe played the first two games. As soon as Interplay will release sales numbers, we will find out how much they increased. I probably have overstated the fact by saying "a good amount of players", but still, no need to get your panties all in a bunch.

What I find really silly is that some of you hate Fallout 3 so much and with such stubborn stupidity that you are willing to argue that F3 did not increase the popularity of the first two games, which of course are the holy grails of gaming. Well, apart from F2 being shit and unfaithful to the franchise because it had a bigger sense of humor.

But silly sarcasm aside, I played F1 and 2 years before I even knew who Bethesda is and absolutely loved the series and think it's one of the best game universes created, but I honestly can't see how current events are all that bad. Yeah, the series has changed, but New Vegas is still fantastic and is a great fallout sequel.

 

[UncannyGarlic]

Ripping off DokiDoki Panikku is probably the best thing that has ever happened to the franchise. The gameplay quality is miles ahead of traditional Mario gameplay. Unfortunately, they seem to have learned little from it.

Mario 3, Super Mario World, Yoshi's Island, and Mario 64 (which was a reinvention) were all good.

But its much easier today to sell the console as the "family friendly platform" compared to the PC which STILL has somewhat the "its mainly for the geeks" reputation on it. The other situation is that the console offers a much higher amount of entertaiment regarding group-games or social-gaming where you can entertain a whole crowd with a single game. I never seen that working in the same way with the PC. - Except for the mulitplayer part over the internet but that is NOT the same.

Well until the Konect, only the Wii was marketing itself as a family entertainment system. You also forget price, the sticker shock of consoles is a lot less than of gaming PCs, and they tend to last about as long. Granted, they don't look as good but most console gamers don't care.

Yeah, that's really great and all, apart from missing my point of course. I never said all/most gamers are stupid kids. I was talking about the younger gamers that usually play on consoles and that blaming them for not playing a game that's almost as old as they are is stupid. But hey, don't mind me, continue goggling and stating the obvious.

You stated that the average CoD player was young without any supporting data so I looked up the average age of gamers in general, which should correlate fairly well to a M rated game. So yes, you were implicitly implying that the average age of gamers is "young", which I take to mean less than 18.

I probably have overstated the fact by saying "a good amount of players", but still, no need to get your panties all in a bunch.

Hahah, clearly it's my fault that this wasn't your first response when I pointed out your misstatement.

What I find really silly is that some of you hate Fallout 3 so much and with such stubborn stupidity that you are willing to argue that F3 did not increase the popularity of the first two games,

Wohoo, more generalizations and mud slinging. No one stated or even suggested that Fallout 3 didn't get more people to play Fallout 1&2, the question was over the amount of Fallout 3 players, which you now admit you overstated.

the first two games, which of course are the holy grails of gaming. Well, apart from F2 being shit and unfaithful to the franchise because it had a bigger sense of humor.

Not everyone here believes that Fallout 1&2 are the holy grails of gaming. Hell, many have said that Planescape: Torment has the best choices and consequences of any game, some even regard it as a better RPG. Heck, I'd wager that Fallout isn't the #1 game on the majority of NMA's regular's list, top 10 certainly.

But silly sarcasm aside, I played F1 and 2 years before I even knew who Bethesda is and absolutely loved the series and think it's one of the best game universes created, but I honestly can't see how current events are all that bad. Yeah, the series has changed, but New Vegas is still fantastic and is a great fallout sequel.

New Vegas did some good things for the setting and made some mistakes. All in all, it was a fine sequel in terms of world. Fallout 3, on the other hand, took a gigantic shit on the lore and completely changed the gameplay, the latter of which was carried over into New Vegas. It's a fine stand alone game but a shitty sequel.