Yay! Germany is screwed!

[Ashmo]

Today the Christian Democratic Union (who're not really all that Christian nor Democratic and are only called a center party because "right" suggests Nazi-dom in Germany), the conservatives who managed to build up enough debts to cause the near-death of our economy, bankrupcy of most if not all states and districts as well as all the other things the Social Democrats didn't screw up on their own in the last six years, won the local election in NRW, the state with the highest population density.
As a result the already overwhelmingly CDU-dominated Bundesrat is now under full control of the CDU again and the leader of the governmental party (Social Democrats / SPD) announced that they want to hold governmental elections earlier (I think 2006) this time because they are unable to function as a government under these circumstances.

If the local elections of all states say anything about the governmental elections, that means we'll have a CDU government in a few more months again.

Furthermore the victory in the local election most likely means that NRW, like all CDU governed states, will introduce a university fee (which is ridiculously high, comes into effect in the first semester and is directly paid to the district, rather the university and thus will most likely used for patching holes in highways rather than improving the horrible situation we have at universities today).

Yay for democracy.

 

[Mikey]

Err.... Bugger.

 

[John Uskglass]

Both German parties suck, but the SDP sucks a 13 incher, while the CDU sucks only a common 6 incher.

 

[Jebus]

Oh god, not the CDU again.

They make for dreadfully boring Bundeskänslers*...






*I know that ain't spelled right. So sue me.

 

[DJ Slamák]

The "right" (well, the closest thing we have to a "right" anyway; they're little more than commies in a blue coat) is projected to win here by a landslide next year, as well.

 

[Member of Khans]

SDP

SPD, Socialdemocratic Party of Germany. I am a member of that party.

F U C K !
... CDU and North Rhine-Westphalia... that simply does not fit together. After 39 years of Socialdemocracy *cries*

Okay, the federal government is now totaly fucked up. One can not govern against the Bundesrat. It smells like Vertrauensfrage....
Aaargh, it makes me so sick.

It has a positive side. I see a new punk wave arise in German music.

 

[Turnip]

It is quite posible that the CDU will get more than 50 % at the election, i don`think there is any way to prevent that.
However I wonder how people will react when they realise that nothing changes with them, or even gets worse (no way to tell me that it is good to seperate a country into rich and poor).
Bigest problem from my point of view is the extreme populism in both partys. The most important thing is to win the next election, no matter at which cost, even if it is bad for the country.

The thing that bugs me the most is however that my local governement would have consisted of the SPD, the green and the SSW (the party of te danish minority, i am a member of), if not a single asstard dickhead would have choosen to get on an ego-trip and voted against (or corectly: didnt vote at all) the interst of the party and the people voting for him.

Mhh, it has a positive side. I see a new punk wave arise in German music.

secondet, but not realy worth it.

 

[Member of Khans]

Federal Diet elections in fall 2005... if we are realistic it means a conservative/economic-liberal federal government with a total majority in Federal Diet, Federal Council and nearly every state parliament.
Police state ahoy! (am I too pessimistic?)

 

[John Uskglass]

CDU is the only hope for Germany; which is to say there is almost no hope for Germany. The SDP has ruled over a decade of economic stagnation and a government that needs to be cut down by about half it's size. Germany will abandon Socialism and Schroder or abandon it's hopes of a future.

 

[Tagaziel]

Looks as if it's a common thing in midwestern Europe.

Inefficent leadership? Economic stagnation? Retards ruling the country while intelligent people suffer?

In Poland, we are also screwed, with extremes to choose between and more flexible parties being muted by loud ultralists.

So, as said, yay for democracy! (The worst system ever created - but we dont have a better one - Churchrill AFAIR)

 

[Member of Khans]

CDU is the only hope for Germany; which is to say there is almost no hope for Germany. The SDP has ruled over a decade of economic stagnation and a government that needs to be cut down by about half it's size. Germany will abandon Socialism and Schroder or abandon it's hopes of a future.

SPD! not! SDP!
Social democracy is not socialism because it does not dislike capitalism in general <EDIT>more exactly: it does not dismiss a free economy, but uncontrolled capitalism</EDIT> (it's more a center than a left position).
7 years are not a decade.
I agree with you that the government has to be cut down.

 

[The Commissar]

(The worst system ever created - but we dont have a better one - Churchrill AFAIR)

"It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried."

But you were close enough.

 

[Tagaziel]

I only remember the polish version of the quote.

It's funny how far you can get from the original sentence if it's:

english->polish->english

In democracy everybody is screwed (except for the majority) [from the head of Mikel Grizzly full of strange and not always sensible quotes]

 

[John Uskglass]

Social democracy is not socialism because it does not dislike capitalism in general <EDIT>more exactly: it does not dismiss a free economy, but uncontrolled capitalism</EDIT> (it's more a center than a left position).

It dislikes Capitalism but it's not actually Socialism. It's a hybrid, with the worst of capitalism (growing wealth disparities) and all the negative aspects of Socialsm (no economic growth, increasingly insane Chancellors who win elections with Anti-American stunts, etc..) (or should I say all the aspects of Socialsm as there are no benefits to it?)

Sorry I keep writing SDP. Thing is, in English we call them Social Democratic Parties.

I agree with you that the government has to be cut down.

Then why in God's name vote for anybody besides the CDU-CSU?

 

[Ashmo]

The CDU/CSU government we had for sixteen years destroyed our economy through debts and corruption. The SPD at least tried to repair the damage their "Christian" predecessors inflicted.

Former chancellor Helmut Kohl didn't even have to take any response for the corruption scandals that he was a huge (sic) part of and just killed the entire investigation by just shutting up and not saying anything.

The German reunion has left East Germany in nearly the same state since the fall of the GDR because of the mismanagement that caused new streets and appartment buildings (which now have to be torn down at the tax payers' expense) to be constructed instead of reviving its economy.

All the CDU has proposed so far is to make even more debts in order to delay the issues once more rather than fixing them. We're already unable to meet the Euro stabilization pact criteria -- where do you think would THAT leave us?

Maybe you know more about YOUR country's conservatives, dear CCR, than the rest of us, but judging by your statements about the SPD (true, it may not be the best alternative, but at least they're not AS bad as the CDU/CSU and ARE the only other major party we have) I seriously suggest that you better shut up about German politics right now, because you're not exactly making yourself look smart that way.

The majority of CDU/CSU votes came from older people who simply vote for them because they got "Christian" in their name, because they're the conservatives, because they "always" voted for them in the past or because "everything was alright when they were in charge" (because nobody ever heard about all the debts they created back then). These are not informed citizens nor do they know WHAT they are voting for.
Heck, they'd even vote for the CDU/CSU if that'd result in instant execution (which might not be a bad thing in that case).

I'm certainly not a fan of what the SPD has done so far, but most of their decisions were far better for the economy than anything the CDU/CSU has caused in sixteen years of mismanagement.
And lastly the SPD was unable to do anything in their second term without the approval of the CDU/CSU (who had the majority in the Bundesrat, which had to agree on pretty much everything important), so it's retarded to say the CDU/CSU wouldn't have agreed with anything they did in that time (especially considering how many things had to be turned into a compromise because the CDU/CSU threatened to vote against it if it was left unchanged).

Most of what the CDU and CSU have agreed on as a political concept is known to be impracticable and unrealistic and solely serves the purpose of keeping the Union stable until after the next election. Heck, they haven't done much but picking on the government for all those seven years.

And even when the government proposed working concepts they sabotaged it as much as they could, both by publicity and by political means, to make sure it would fail or at least be perceived negatively.

You cannot fix a broken economy in a socially just way. The SPD has been accused of beeing a-social because of that. Truth to be told, they couldn't have acted differently without causing further injury to the economy.

Just because you like the way Bush is humping your nation to the grave doesn't mean Merkel would do us any good.

 

[Member of Khans]

Sorry I keep writing SDP. Thing is, in English we call them Social Democratic Parties.

Ah. I didn't know that. Sorry.

It dislikes Capitalism but it's not actually Socialism. It's a hybrid, with the worst of capitalism (growing wealth disparities) and all the negative aspects of Socialsm (no economic growth, increasingly insane Chancellors who win elections with Anti-American stunts, etc..) (or should I say all the aspects of Socialsm as there are no benefits to it?)

From my point of view it a hybrid consisting of the best of two systems. The freedom of the individual and personal property with the social security of a planned economy... no, wait, what we are talking about is called "social market economy", which is actually the name of the german economical system, not the programm of a single party.

I agree with you that the government has to be cut down.

Then why in God's name vote for anybody besides the CDU-CSU?

- "...[the Christian-Catholic Religion] is the right one, you may even call it superior, if you want to... " Jürgen Rütgers, CDU candidate for the office of the ministerial president of NRW a few days before the election
- slogan of the CDU during the NRW-election campaign: "1 Million unemployed in NRW - enough is enough".... seconded. Good statement. And? Slogan? Programm? Solutions?
- the CDU wants to introduce study fees of 500€ per semester. For my as a son of rich parents it's no problem at all, but I have friends and fellow students who will get in serious trouble. I'm allowed to go on studying (I'm a mediocre student) and others with better marks are not? bullshit
- the CDU wants to remove (or at least minimize) the dismissal protection of the german labour law
- as I mentioned above: with the votes of NRW in the Federal Council the CDU has a absolute majority in the upper house of parliament. One could not govern against the Federal Council, i.e. a new Federal Diet has to be elected, from a realistic point of view it will have a CDU-majority -> CDU/CSU federal government, an absolute majority of the CDU/CSU in both houses of federal parliament (in all probability); a one party rule (nevermind the FDP, the economical-liberalists will climb into the conservatives" ass)
- the SPD can't manage it, but the CDU as well
- I'm a SPD member
- I'm a left-of-center
- I could go on and on, mention the different positions on gay marriage, tax politics, european union...
- I'll have another beer now, miss ecology and manage to go to organic chemistry with a hangover tomorrow. Good night.

EDIT: why do I type anything while Ashmo does it faster and a lot more precise?
EDIT2; and in better English

 

[Ashmo]

Oh, but the CDU wants to introduce a loan for students with very low rates* -- you can pay it all back once you find a job.

...

Okay, who am I kidding? Considering the fees even low rates mean a high debt and whoever then FINDS a job will most likely spend half his life paying off the debts he made to be able to afford his time at the university.

The only thing this does to the economy is increase the load of unskilled, uneducated people who simply have no place in a modern economy (sad but true, if the economy did as they could, almost every simple job would be performed by a machine now -- that is NOT science fiction).
It does reduce the load on the universities a bit, but it doesn't stop people from applying for courses they're not interested in. That's why we had the delayed fees that only played a role if you studied longer than normal or started all over again after having already taken a course (finished or not).

All it does now is not reduce the rate of "misguided" appliants (those who drop out during the first semesters because they find the subject to be nothing like what they imagined it to be -- well duh), but reduce the number of appliants to those who can either afford to pay the fees or are stupid enough to make debts (in good CDU tradition) to study at all.

Unskilled people are a waste by-product in our economy. They are not needed any longer. Restricting education to the wealthy (who can afford the fees), hopeless (who are stupid enough to make debts to study) and insane (who are brave enough to make debts to study) increases unemployment and is very harmful to the economy as a whole, let alone the democratic system, which is based on the requirement of an educated and informed people.

 

[Member of Khans]

*opens another Diebels*
Actually I don't have to care about it. € 500 a semester is fine for me, no problem at all... I'm an upper middle class child, my parents are doing well.
Hmm... what whas the reason I did not vote CDU? Wait... maybe it's because I've got moral values too.

At least nearly nobody voted NPD.

 

[DJ Slamák]

- "...[the Christian-Catholic Religion] is the right one, you may even call it superior, if you want to... " Jürgen Rütgers, CDU candidate for the office of the ministerial president of NRW a few days before the election

Isn't like a half of Germany traditionally Protestant? How does this sort of thing slide with the voters? (Or is NRW the Catholic part?)

 

[Ashmo]

- "...[the Christian-Catholic Religion] is the right one, you may even call it superior, if you want to... " Jürgen Rütgers, CDU candidate for the office of the ministerial president of NRW a few days before the election

Isn't like a half of Germany traditionally Protestant? How does this sort of thing slide with the voters? (Or is NRW the Catholic part?)

Bavaria is Catholic. Also the CDU is not exactly Christian other than by name.

The CSU is the Bavarian offspring of the CDU -- or sister party. It's pretty much just a regional ofspring with an inflated ego. They also like to argue with the CDU a lot and tend to be quite a bitch when it comes to compromises.

The CDU is simply conservative. They're not Catholic at all. They're not even religious. They're just somewhat old-fashioned in terms of morals, but only when it comes to "ethical" decisions (so it doesn't stop them from being as corrupt as any other party).

Most old people vote the CDU. See above.