ALRIGHT FANATICS... LISTEN UP! (My 2 cents on the Power Armo

H

Hell Patrol

It Wandered In From the Wastes
Old armor: Clunky, huge, could NEVER make a realistic crawling and getting up from crawling animation, and when laying down, you'd probably be the size of a non-PA person just ducking. It was the personification of what RPG's are about (well, one of the things): to become a veritable god through experience, to show that through perseverance and training one can turn into something nearly unstoppable. Or at least in to an incredibly cool looking, clunky hunk of retro junk. The original Fallout armor in a way holds an essense of RPGing inside it.

The new armor, on the other hands, is more human-shaped, and thus can realistically be envisioned crawling around in and all that good shit. To make up for the loss of scariness/intimidation that the old armor had from it's sheer bulk (and cool slanted eyes), they added some accessories/modifications to make it more into something that looks like a forced to be reckoned with. This armor breathes stealth, tactics, and surprise, and I fucking love it. They managed to make a suit of armor that appears both tactical and intimidating, so kudos to them.

Yes, you heard me, I, being a fan of the Fallout series since the tech DEMO OF THE FIRST FALLOUT GAME was released, which is a lot more "old school Fallout fan" than 80% of you, actually approve of the new BOS armor. It looks like it fits the tactical edge of the Fallout Universe that microforte extended quite nicely.

So any claims that Interplay and Microforte are trying to appeal solely to new players is complete crap. They're doing what they have to do to make it feel right, and from the looks of it, they're doing a damn good job. The armor and CTB fit the genre, the supermutant and deathclaw art is still recognizable and explainable, as well as the splinter faction, and from the screen shots, they look like they did a damn good job at making one fine destroyed bowling alley... from every post demo screenshot I've seen, they look like they truly did capture the fallout atmosphere.

I don't care if Fallout: Tactics isn't Fallout 3, hell, I'd even be PISSED if they tried to make it into something that could be confused for FO3, the sequel to the RPGs we love. If you don't like tactical games, then fine, stop bitching about Tactics, stop saying "it sucks" based on demo which you most likely developed a negative opinion about before you even played it (and also was meant as a *gameplay* test, size limits would restrict them from putting in the amount of atmosphere that will be in the real game), and go contribute to the Arcanum boards or something. It's going gold in a matter of days, and there's nothing you can do to stop it's production. Fallout: Tactics doesn't hurt the Fallout Universe, it doesn't hurt the production of Fallout 3, and it doesn't promote that god-awful idea of a Fallout MMORPG.

This message is not just directed at NMA readers, it's a rant to vent steam off at all this anti-FO:T zealousness.
 
One, very simple question:

How far is too far?


[font color=orange]
--------------------------------------------
Dennis Leary stole my song! That...asshole!
--------------------------------------------
"Robert, your time has come!"

"OOOH! Thank you, Master!"

"Don't mention it."

*Robert explodes in a shower of sparks*
--------------------------------------------
It's me, Jack Brown! The wind-up ass-hole!
--------------------------------------------
[font color=red]"The Brotherhood is not around to police the world. They're more like the mafia than any other organization. Your town needs protection? Fine. No problem. Just give us some of your children and a good percentage of your resources. Oh! Don't give us any *%$# or we'll burn your house down and put your family into one of our "Wasteland Famous" labor camps."(sic!)
[font color=green](You need to adjust your meds, Dan. Surreality is slipping through again.)

- Dan Levin on "Sellout Tactics: The Markethood of Game-Whoring
(The game may not fit into the Fallout Universe, but at least it has the Fallout name on it, and THAT's what matters! Pre-order now and get a free bag to conduct funeral services when you are done admiring how un-Fallout this game is!)"

[font color=red]"I think Dan was just getting a bit carried away with his analogy there.

There are aspects of the Brotherhood that are fascistic, especially our splinter faction, but they're not really comparable to the mafia."
[font color=green](Great that everyone's on the same level...please note the sarcasm.)

- Ed

[font color=red]"(Tony) I would redo the sprite of the Power Armor to make it more retro. Not that there is anything technically wrong with the sprite, it's a great piece of art. It's just that it is a bit out of place in the Fallout Universe. But bear in mind that we had to design it over a year ago and Interplay approved everything we did."
[font color=green](Odd, and Fallout Fans have done a much better job of capturing the style of art and all. And you call yourself a GAME ARTIST? I suppose it's like being a 'Counselor', where all you have to do is hang a sign over your door and you're in business. Shouldn't it have been obvious that retro was the theme of the game or was it a shocking revelation, playing the first two Fallout games and discovering this out?)

- Tony "I'll design and go with whatever gets approved, nevermind it's (ir)relevence to the subject matter at hand." Oakden

[font color=white]End Note: [font color=yellow]"To make the individual uncomfortable, that is my task." - Nietzsche

It has been my sole purpose to add controversey to this, a challenge. From the first day of seeing the screenshots, I knew it would take a lot of vehement protesting to make sure that the ball isn't dropped here. I've seen far too many times where the fans would just nod and moo, and the game is utter shit as an end product. A bit of a challenge is what's needed, to ensure, to prove me wrong is the purpose here. No direct, personal insult is meant by any this, but I am highlighting several of the most prevalent flub-ups so far. That's my point in all this.
Prove me wrong, I challenge you, team of Fallout Tactics.

=========================
Try Arcanum, by those who brought you the first Fallout:
http://fp.geocities.com/jonaac/2.jpg
​
 
RE: second question

I do. I'm not as "Old School" (FO1, FO2), but I'm not trying to think of this as RPG Fallout 3 (Which I'm really waiting for, I think I've played FO2 seven times in the two months all the way through).

Remember, this is a combat game, the story will have to make you think that "gee, we really ought to fight or exterminate these fellas". And where have you learned the story? Its already been stated that the main baddies will NOT be the supermutants, they're being quite tightlipped about who it is.

Also by art, I'm going to assume you're refering to the Power Armor, and the postapocalyptic look of the maps. If youre going by the demo you must remember that it does not have the complete set of textures, they were still working on the game when the demo's were completed to test the systems out. The new maps for the game will probably be much darker feeling and look more rundow because they will have many more textures to work with. And the powerarmor, while it does look like they have dogears, I'm going to speculate (which is pretty much what everyone is doing right now) is designed that way to look fierce, it'd probably scare the crap out of some raiders or tribals to see a metal demon striding towards you with a big ass gun. :P

I don't think its really possible to judge the game based on the very limited amount of screenshots and info we have learned about it. The demoes I think are more comparable to the Alpha Tech Releases for Starsiege that true final game demoes.
 
RE: second question

>So why did you start that
>thread of the Super-Goombas/mutants?

Because I find that funny as fuck, it wasn't a bitch thread, I just found the large renders of the supermutants amazingly resembled the concept of the large, hulking, small bald headed goombas in the Super Mario Brothers Movie. The ingame screenshots don't appear badly made, and I'll be able to get used to their artistic differences after an hour or two of playing... it's just a matter of getting used to change.
 
RE: second question

>I do. I'm not as
>"Old School" (FO1, FO2), but
>I'm not trying to think
>of this as RPG Fallout
>3 (Which I'm really waiting
>for, I think I've played
>FO2 seven times in the
>two months all the way
>through).

Let`s get one thing straight: i don`t hate FO:Tactics, i`m going to buy the game as long as it doesn`t have too many bugs(ey it`s IP, you never now what`s coming), and i`m mildly enjoying the demo.
The thing is, my expectations were VERY LOW since the beggining;and even then comunication problems between Microforte and 14ºEast, bad research on old material and some lack of effort from the devellopers in the early stages of production actually caused things to appear even worse than i thought. Some of those problems were resolved, some of them is too late to put them right but at least the Microforte guys showed that they understood the messages from the fans, and others were stucturly wrong (the mafia comparision really saids it all in this case).

>Remember, this is a combat game,
>the story will have to
>make you think that "gee,
>we really ought to fight
>or exterminate these fellas".

Do you need hairy deathclaws or super-goombas/mutants for that?

>And where have you learned
>the story? Its already
>been stated that the main
>baddies will NOT be the
>supermutants, they're being quite tightlipped
>about who it is.

I´m talking from the interviews, chats, developers diaries and posts i`ve seen so far, i understand the full game still can be better, but until now it just doesn`t feel exacly a Fallout story, maybe a Wasteland/Fallout relation but that`s it.
But, again, i maybe wrong on this, let`s wait and see.


>Also by art, I'm going to
>assume you're refering to the
>Power Armor, and the postapocalyptic
>look of the maps.
>If youre going by the
>demo you must remember that
>it does not have the
>complete set of textures, they
>were still working on the
>game when the demo's were
>completed to test the systems
>out. The new maps
>for the game will probably
>be much darker feeling and
>look more rundow because they
>will have many more textures
>to work with. And
>the powerarmor, while it does
>look like they have dogears,
>I'm going to speculate (which
>is pretty much what everyone
>is doing right now) is
>designed that way to look
>fierce, it'd probably scare the
>crap out of some raiders
>or tribals to see a
>metal demon striding towards you
>with a big ass gun.

When the devellopers noticed through Saint_Proverbius and others articles and posts that the Fallout fans knew what they were talking about, they did a "Mea Culpa" and it seems they at least tried to give the final release a more retrotech look.Let`s see if it wasn`t too late...

For the power armour, it simply shows that the game is really only going to be marketed for newbies in the fallout world.Since the mags love fallout ambiance the reviews will be pleasant, no doubt, with those simple and magical words "even if you liked diablo or baldurs gate and hated Jagged Alliance or the original Fallout you`ll love this" , and so on.That`s fine, just don`t ask me to be thrilled with it, this kind of consumers aren`t the type that will keep faithfully the fallout franchise strong through time, nor they will create a better community, but that`s fine too, since there other things in life(sex,Arcanum,more sex :) et coetera).
It isn`t too much to ask some sobriety in the art changes, in X-Com they didn`t had that sobriety and look what`s happening(and i`m talking about one of the strongest series in "videogames" history).
>
>I don't think its really possible
>to judge the game based
>on the very limited amount
>of screenshots and info we
>have learned about it.
>The demoes I think are
>more comparable to the Alpha
>Tech Releases for Starsiege that
>true final game demoes.

*sigh* But why did they call them "demos" in the first place?Why not "technology demos" or whatever?If it can`t show the games general ambiance, screw it and don`t call it "a demo".
The thing is the first demo was much closer from the final product then they would like to admit, they just got blown away by the criticisms made by those that Hell-Patrol doesn`t like, and changed many things.

Now, Unfriendlyfire, those changes may provide an interesting litle game, i am going to play it, even with the incredible disregard of detail (detail is everything in games, like Moulineux says), but some of us fear that it also will bring confusion to the Fallout foundations, opening the door for many more wrong decisions in the future of the Fallout franchise.

What i mean is we, me and you, are trying to defend Fallout in different ways, i suppose.And i sincerely hope the final release will blow my pants off, since i do have respect for many people in 14ºEast and Microforte, but... well i have too many doubts at the moment.
http://fp.geocities.com/jonaac/2.jpg
 
RE: second question

>two of playing... it's just
>a matter of getting used
>to change.

Oh yeah, so let`s change Brotherhood for PimPinhood, put pink power armours and why not some wizards, some elves and a Martha Stewart race instead of ghouls. I could really get used to that too...
http://fp.geocities.com/jonaac/2.jpg
 
RE: second question

>Oh yeah, so let`s change Brotherhood
>for PimPinhood, put pink power
>armours and why not some
>wizards, some elves and a
>Martha Stewart race instead of
>ghouls. I could really get
>used to that too...


Oh yeah, and lets show our loss in an argument by analogizing a completely *cosmetic* change to an obscure, unreasonable and unexplainable change that would mean drastically changing the entire universe.

I swear, half of NMA has degraded into close-minded zealous morons these days.
 
RE: second question

>*sigh* But why did they call
>them "demos" in the first
>place?Why not "technology demos" or
>whatever?If it can`t show the
>games general ambiance, screw it
>and don`t call it "a
>demo".

It's hard to show a game's true atmosphere with a limited amount of space... FO:Tactics will be on 2 cd's, it's a big game.

The impression I got of the demo before and after it was realeased that it was a demo to show the general gameplay of the game, not the complete atmosphere and story.
 
RE: second question

It's definetely not the most friendly place around.
 
RE: second question

>Oh yeah, and lets show our
>loss in an argument by
>analogizing a completely *cosmetic*
>change to an obscure, unreasonable
>and unexplainable change that would
>mean drastically changing the entire
>universe.

Loss in an argument?Where? And what i`m talking about are unreasonable changes, I´m not talking of anti-aliasing or features that are bound to appear due to the technology, but the lack of commitment to detail, that, if we just stand there and do nothing, can lead to the "bastardization" of the series,that`s all.

>I swear, half of NMA has
>degraded into close-minded zealous morons
>these days.

He he, you really need to do some more if you want to piss me :)
http://fp.geocities.com/jonaac/2.jpg
 
RE: second question

[font size=1" color="#FF0000]LAST EDITED ON Mar-08-01 AT 11:42AM (GMT)[p]
Well? They've practically disregarded all other concepts of the game, that's probably the next step. In fact, they *did* do that to some extent. They botched the concepts and history of the Power Armor, and then went and made the deathclaw look like it was derived from a mutated Irishman or Italien judging from the thick body hair instead of from a lab animal like it was supposed to be. The body structure looks human moreso than anything else. Funny how the deathclaws look the same in Fo1 and Fo2, but the ones in FOT look like the offspring of some that decided to go off into the barnyard and shag some sheep.

The technology IS the universe, if you had been paying attention here.

Artistic license gone too far:

Fallout 2 Enclave power armor:
http://fallout.gamestats.com/forum/User_files/3aa7595a4b4998ce.jpg
(Note the LACK of rust? That's right, MicroForte, rust DOESN'T make it retro! It's the construction and build of it that makes it retro.)


www.whatthefuck.com:
http://www.freelancer.ag.ru/fallout/screens3/renders2/05.jpg

Note the construction of each (and also the BOS armor in one of the demos, forgot if it's in both). Also note how decrepit the FOT one is. Would ANY self-respecting person allow their armor to fall to pieces of ANY make? I don't think so. Particularly if it's such a valuable piece as power armor, and if indeed the BOS manufactured it. That's YEARS of neglect and no restorative effort made if it was lying around, so the piece of armor would fall apart quickly and be prone to even more corrosion. Technically, this is an unrealistic piece of work, for such reasons.


Now, onto the sheep-shagging deathclaws.

Which ones of the following are the REAL breed of deathclaws, kiddies, and which ones are the result of some barnyard follies and farmer sutra manuals? I know that sort of thing goes on in Scotland, Oz, and parts of the US, but who would have thought they'd include THAT reference into the game...at least they could have added a fluffy tail, too, for comical reasons.

http://fallout.gamestats.com/forum/User_files/3aa7586e496ce461.jpg http://vault13.net/specs/deathclawwalk.gif http://vault13.net/specs/deathclaw.gif http://fallout.gamestats.com/forum/User_files/3aa75b8d510d1177.jpg http://fallout.gamestats.com/forum/User_files/3aa75b6050cde447.jpg http://vault13.net/specs/deathclawattack.gif http://fallout.gamestats.com/forum/User_files/3aa75b3e50742d61.jpg

>I swear, half of NMA has
>degraded into close-minded zealous morons
>these days.

Not really. We know when something's fucked and won't be afraid to say so. We aren't cattle that moo and nod our heads at any old fodder that's passed our way. When people of the original Fallout fan club raise their eyebrows and say "What the fuck?" among "They should be tortured - slowly.", then isn't that an indication that something's indeed fucked up? (For bonus points, say WHO the original fan club is. Shouldn't be that hard.) I mean, there really wouldn't have been a problem if they STUCK to the Fallout concepts in the first place. I really would have welcomed it if it had stuck to the concepts. So would many other people. Just because it has the name of Fallout isn't enough reason to rave over it.

As it stands, it looks like they raped the concepts and raped the name. We'll leave it for the final game to decide. And who knows? Based upon that, my opinion of all this may change. It just depends if they decided to "make it more retro", as is the Fallout Universe. If not, I wonder if they knew what the Fallout Universe was in the first place.


[font color=orange]
--------------------------------------------
Dennis Leary stole my song! That...asshole!
--------------------------------------------
"Robert, your time has come!"

"OOOH! Thank you, Master!"

"Don't mention it."

*Robert explodes in a shower of sparks*
--------------------------------------------
It's me, Jack Brown! The wind-up ass-hole!
--------------------------------------------
[font color=red]"The Brotherhood is not around to police the world. They're more like the mafia than any other organization. Your town needs protection? Fine. No problem. Just give us some of your children and a good percentage of your resources. Oh! Don't give us any *%$# or we'll burn your house down and put your family into one of our "Wasteland Famous" labor camps."(sic!)
[font color=green](You need to adjust your meds, Dan. Surreality is slipping through again.)

- Dan Levin on "Sellout Tactics: The Markethood of Game-Whoring
(The game may not fit into the Fallout Universe, but at least it has the Fallout name on it, and THAT's what matters! Pre-order now and get a free bag to conduct funeral services when you are done admiring how un-Fallout this game is!)"

[font color=red]"I think Dan was just getting a bit carried away with his analogy there.

There are aspects of the Brotherhood that are fascistic, especially our splinter faction, but they're not really comparable to the mafia."
[font color=green](Great that everyone's on the same level...please note the sarcasm.)

- Ed

[font color=red]"(Tony) I would redo the sprite of the Power Armor to make it more retro. Not that there is anything technically wrong with the sprite, it's a great piece of art. It's just that it is a bit out of place in the Fallout Universe. But bear in mind that we had to design it over a year ago and Interplay approved everything we did."
[font color=green](Odd, and Fallout Fans have done a much better job of capturing the style of art and all. And you call yourself a GAME ARTIST? I suppose it's like being a 'Counselor', where all you have to do is hang a sign over your door and you're in business. Shouldn't it have been obvious that retro was the theme of the game or was it a shocking revelation, playing the first two Fallout games and discovering this out?)

- Tony "I'll design and go with whatever gets approved, nevermind it's (ir)relevence to the subject matter at hand." Oakden

[font color=white]End Note: [font color=yellow]"To make the individual uncomfortable, that is my task." - Nietzsche

It has been my sole purpose to add controversey to this, a challenge. From the first day of seeing the screenshots, I knew it would take a lot of vehement protesting to make sure that the ball isn't dropped here. I've seen far too many times where the fans would just nod and moo, and the game is utter shit as an end product. A bit of a challenge is what's needed, to ensure, to prove me wrong is the purpose here. No direct, personal insult is meant by any this, but I am highlighting several of the most prevalent flub-ups so far. That's my point in all this.
Prove me wrong, I challenge you, team of Fallout Tactics.

=========================
Try Arcanum, by those who brought you the first Fallout:
http://fp.geocities.com/jonaac/2.jpg
​
 
More about the armor:

[font size=1" color="#FF0000]LAST EDITED ON Mar-08-01 AT 11:40AM (GMT)[p]Rust=You're walking around in a large, clunky, unreliable POS.

For these reasons, nobody would let a suit of power armor go to such neglect without repair (not to mention that the construction of the power armor is DESGINED to prevent rust).

Rust comes from iron. You know, iron oxide? Do you see iron? If that was made out of iron, the hydraulics would have to be kicked WAY up because it would be heavier than poly-laminate composite* (cast-iron is heavier than most composites save for tungsten, and it would be improbable for tungsten to be used in any great quantity). In other words, they wouldn't be walking around wearing cast-iron skillets all over their body that is supported by a overburdened hydraulic system - they would use the real materials, otherwise you are in a clunky overglorified piece of metal armor that is too bulky for that amount of protection or lack thereof. Not to mention the coating that is imbedded into the outer layer of metal that provides protection against lasers and plasma weapons (hint, it's not iron either - *wink*)

So it's safe to say that the BOS would not be using um...rusting power armor, technical impossibility or even as a matter of a soldier keeping proper maintenance and upkeep of their armor.

* In layman's terms = many layers of mixed metals.

Should have done your homework, MicroForte. Rust != retro.

http://fallout.gamestats.com/forum/User_files/3aa767a4734ce655.jpg
http://fallout.gamestats.com/forum/User_files/3aa7687d74f20461.jpg
http://fallout.gamestats.com/forum/User_files/3aa768df75fd3d9e.jpg


[font color=orange]
--------------------------------------------
Dennis Leary stole my song! That...asshole!
--------------------------------------------
"Robert, your time has come!"

"OOOH! Thank you, Master!"

"Don't mention it."

*Robert explodes in a shower of sparks*
--------------------------------------------
It's me, Jack Brown! The wind-up ass-hole!
--------------------------------------------
[font color=red]"The Brotherhood is not around to police the world. They're more like the mafia than any other organization. Your town needs protection? Fine. No problem. Just give us some of your children and a good percentage of your resources. Oh! Don't give us any *%$# or we'll burn your house down and put your family into one of our "Wasteland Famous" labor camps."(sic!)
[font color=green](You need to adjust your meds, Dan. Surreality is slipping through again.)

- Dan Levin on "Sellout Tactics: The Markethood of Game-Whoring
(The game may not fit into the Fallout Universe, but at least it has the Fallout name on it, and THAT's what matters! Pre-order now and get a free bag to conduct funeral services when you are done admiring how un-Fallout this game is!)"

[font color=red]"I think Dan was just getting a bit carried away with his analogy there.

There are aspects of the Brotherhood that are fascistic, especially our splinter faction, but they're not really comparable to the mafia."
[font color=green](Great that everyone's on the same level...please note the sarcasm.)

- Ed

[font color=red]"(Tony) I would redo the sprite of the Power Armor to make it more retro. Not that there is anything technically wrong with the sprite, it's a great piece of art. It's just that it is a bit out of place in the Fallout Universe. But bear in mind that we had to design it over a year ago and Interplay approved everything we did."
[font color=green](Odd, and Fallout Fans have done a much better job of capturing the style of art and all. And you call yourself a GAME ARTIST? I suppose it's like being a 'Counselor', where all you have to do is hang a sign over your door and you're in business. Shouldn't it have been obvious that retro was the theme of the game or was it a shocking revelation, playing the first two Fallout games and discovering this out?)

- Tony "I'll design and go with whatever gets approved, nevermind it's (ir)relevence to the subject matter at hand." Oakden

[font color=white]End Note: [font color=yellow]"To make the individual uncomfortable, that is my task." - Nietzsche

It has been my sole purpose to add controversey to this, a challenge. From the first day of seeing the screenshots, I knew it would take a lot of vehement protesting to make sure that the ball isn't dropped here. I've seen far too many times where the fans would just nod and moo, and the game is utter shit as an end product. A bit of a challenge is what's needed, to ensure, to prove me wrong is the purpose here. No direct, personal insult is meant by any this, but I am highlighting several of the most prevalent flub-ups so far. That's my point in all this.
Prove me wrong, I challenge you, team of Fallout Tactics.

=========================
Try Arcanum, by those who brought you the first Fallout:
http://fp.geocities.com/jonaac/2.jpg
​
 
More about the DeathClaws:

Those who have played Fallout and Fallout 2 will remember how the deathclaws moved - with a sort of animalistic grace and dexterity befitting their speed.

The FOT one looks like the human* motion-actor had a carrot wedged up his ass and was trying to walk with some difficulty.

* Human is mentioned only because the FOT DeathClaw is distinctly human in origin. In this case, what would happen if a farmer screwed a mutant sheep. However, DeathClows are originating from lab animals at *ONE* particular test facility (hint, another Fallout race came from the same place!). I'll be suprised if a MicroForte employee actually comes here and says the correct answer (no cheating!).

[font color=orange]
--------------------------------------------
Dennis Leary stole my song! That...asshole!
--------------------------------------------
"Robert, your time has come!"

"OOOH! Thank you, Master!"

"Don't mention it."

*Robert explodes in a shower of sparks*
--------------------------------------------
It's me, Jack Brown! The wind-up ass-hole!
--------------------------------------------
[font color=red]"The Brotherhood is not around to police the world. They're more like the mafia than any other organization. Your town needs protection? Fine. No problem. Just give us some of your children and a good percentage of your resources. Oh! Don't give us any *%$# or we'll burn your house down and put your family into one of our "Wasteland Famous" labor camps."(sic!)
[font color=green](You need to adjust your meds, Dan. Surreality is slipping through again.)

- Dan Levin on "Sellout Tactics: The Markethood of Game-Whoring
(The game may not fit into the Fallout Universe, but at least it has the Fallout name on it, and THAT's what matters! Pre-order now and get a free bag to conduct funeral services when you are done admiring how un-Fallout this game is!)"

[font color=red]"I think Dan was just getting a bit carried away with his analogy there.

There are aspects of the Brotherhood that are fascistic, especially our splinter faction, but they're not really comparable to the mafia."
[font color=green](Great that everyone's on the same level...please note the sarcasm.)

- Ed

[font color=red]"(Tony) I would redo the sprite of the Power Armor to make it more retro. Not that there is anything technically wrong with the sprite, it's a great piece of art. It's just that it is a bit out of place in the Fallout Universe. But bear in mind that we had to design it over a year ago and Interplay approved everything we did."
[font color=green](Odd, and Fallout Fans have done a much better job of capturing the style of art and all. And you call yourself a GAME ARTIST? I suppose it's like being a 'Counselor', where all you have to do is hang a sign over your door and you're in business. Shouldn't it have been obvious that retro was the theme of the game or was it a shocking revelation, playing the first two Fallout games and discovering this out?)

- Tony "I'll design and go with whatever gets approved, nevermind it's (ir)relevence to the subject matter at hand." Oakden

[font color=white]End Note: [font color=yellow]"To make the individual uncomfortable, that is my task." - Nietzsche

It has been my sole purpose to add controversey to this, a challenge. From the first day of seeing the screenshots, I knew it would take a lot of vehement protesting to make sure that the ball isn't dropped here. I've seen far too many times where the fans would just nod and moo, and the game is utter shit as an end product. A bit of a challenge is what's needed, to ensure, to prove me wrong is the purpose here. No direct, personal insult is meant by any this, but I am highlighting several of the most prevalent flub-ups so far. That's my point in all this.
Prove me wrong, I challenge you, team of Fallout Tactics.

=========================
Try Arcanum, by those who brought you the first Fallout:
http://fp.geocities.com/jonaac/2.jpg
​
 
Sort of a take on:

Set fire to the women and rape the houses?

Eat the women and fuck the cattle?


[font color=orange]
--------------------------------------------
Dennis Leary stole my song! That...asshole!
--------------------------------------------
"Robert, your time has come!"

"OOOH! Thank you, Master!"

"Don't mention it."

*Robert explodes in a shower of sparks*
--------------------------------------------
It's me, Jack Brown! The wind-up ass-hole!
--------------------------------------------
[font color=red]"The Brotherhood is not around to police the world. They're more like the mafia than any other organization. Your town needs protection? Fine. No problem. Just give us some of your children and a good percentage of your resources. Oh! Don't give us any *%$# or we'll burn your house down and put your family into one of our "Wasteland Famous" labor camps."(sic!)
[font color=green](You need to adjust your meds, Dan. Surreality is slipping through again.)

- Dan Levin on "Sellout Tactics: The Markethood of Game-Whoring
(The game may not fit into the Fallout Universe, but at least it has the Fallout name on it, and THAT's what matters! Pre-order now and get a free bag to conduct funeral services when you are done admiring how un-Fallout this game is!)"

[font color=red]"I think Dan was just getting a bit carried away with his analogy there.

There are aspects of the Brotherhood that are fascistic, especially our splinter faction, but they're not really comparable to the mafia."
[font color=green](Great that everyone's on the same level...please note the sarcasm.)

- Ed

[font color=red]"(Tony) I would redo the sprite of the Power Armor to make it more retro. Not that there is anything technically wrong with the sprite, it's a great piece of art. It's just that it is a bit out of place in the Fallout Universe. But bear in mind that we had to design it over a year ago and Interplay approved everything we did."
[font color=green](Odd, and Fallout Fans have done a much better job of capturing the style of art and all. And you call yourself a GAME ARTIST? I suppose it's like being a 'Counselor', where all you have to do is hang a sign over your door and you're in business. Shouldn't it have been obvious that retro was the theme of the game or was it a shocking revelation, playing the first two Fallout games and discovering this out?)

- Tony "I'll design and go with whatever gets approved, nevermind it's (ir)relevence to the subject matter at hand." Oakden

[font color=white]End Note: [font color=yellow]"To make the individual uncomfortable, that is my task." - Nietzsche

It has been my sole purpose to add controversey to this, a challenge. From the first day of seeing the screenshots, I knew it would take a lot of vehement protesting to make sure that the ball isn't dropped here. I've seen far too many times where the fans would just nod and moo, and the game is utter shit as an end product. A bit of a challenge is what's needed, to ensure, to prove me wrong is the purpose here. No direct, personal insult is meant by any this, but I am highlighting several of the most prevalent flub-ups so far. That's my point in all this.
Prove me wrong, I challenge you, team of Fallout Tactics.

=========================
Try Arcanum, by those who brought you the first Fallout:
http://fp.geocities.com/jonaac/2.jpg
​
 
RE: ALRIGHT FANATICS... LISTEN UP! (My 2 cents on the Power

>Old armor: Clunky, huge, could NEVER
>make a realistic crawling and
>getting up from crawling animation,
>and when laying down, you'd
>probably be the size of
>a non-PA person just ducking.

We'll see about that.

The T-51b isn't that much taller than a normal human. Since it does seem to have a joint at the waist, I would say that means it can bend there. Also, where that huge chest meets the waist, there's an area for some give as well.

>It was the personification of
>what RPG's are about (well,
>one of the things): to
>become a veritable god through
>experience, to show that through
>perseverance and training one can
>turn into something nearly unstoppable.

Part of atmosphere is how things look. That's one thing that set Fallout apart from every other RPG out there.

Like you said, every RPG allows you to go from nothing to being extremely powerful in some manner. If Fallout didn't have the unique style and setting, it would have just been another "me too".

>Or at least in to
>an incredibly cool looking, clunky
>hunk of retro junk. The
>original Fallout armor in a
>way holds an essense of
>RPGing inside it.

It holds the style of the setting within it. That's the most important thing.

>The new armor, on the other
>hands, is more human-shaped, and
>thus can realistically be envisioned
>crawling around in and all
>that good shit. To make
>up for the loss of
>scariness/intimidation that the old armor
>had from it's sheer bulk
>(and cool slanted eyes), they
>added some accessories/modifications to make
>it more into something that
>looks like a forced to
>be reckoned with. This armor
>breathes stealth, tactics, and surprise,
>and I fucking love it.

The new PA isn't even well thought out. It's a rubber suit with a PA chest, arms and legs tacked on.. And add some belly plating to complete that "gothic" look to it. So basically, all the weight of the PA upper part is on the little human's spine underneath it.

In other words, it's a SCUBA suit with large metal plating and machinary on it.

To even think you could crouch or lay down in one of those things is fairly ignorant. Chances are, it'd snap your spine.

Further more, this new PA is being made by the Brotherhood, away from their main base in California. If you'll look at the helmet, that would take some SERIOUS machining to get it to look anything like that. Notice there's no seams in it like the Enclave's Advanced Power Armor has. The FOT PA Helmet is "one piece".

It doesn't just defy the setting in terms of style, it defies the setting in terms of all known reason.

>They managed to make a
>suit of armor that appears
>both tactical and intimidating, so
>kudos to them.

Yeah, those antlers really are terrifying.

>Yes, you heard me, I, being
>a fan of the Fallout
>series since the tech DEMO
>OF THE FIRST FALLOUT GAME
>was released, which is a
>lot more "old school Fallout
>fan" than 80% of you,
>actually approve of the new
>BOS armor.

You're a Fallout Parrot.

See, parrots LOVE shiney objects. If they think it looks good, they're automatically attracted to it. Get a rat trap, put a shiney keychain in it's trip, and you've got one dead parrot.

Much like a parrot in a similar situation, you don't think about something before you run screaming to the shiney object.

And perhaps you should ge back and play Fallout and Fallout 2 some more. Look around at things, you'll notice there's a set style to everything in the game. That new PA most certainly doesn't come anywhere CLOSE to that style.

>It looks like
>it fits the tactical edge
>of the Fallout Universe that
>microforte extended quite nicely.

Umm.. No it doesn't. How can you have a "tactical edge" when the waist of the FOT PA is rubber? Bullets, knives, spears, and just about anything sharp will pass through rubber.

>So any claims that Interplay and
>Microforte are trying to appeal
>solely to new players is
>complete crap. They're doing what
>they have to do to
>make it feel right, and
>from the looks of it,
>they're doing a damn good
>job.

Denile is the first stage of acceptance.

>the supermutant
>and deathclaw art is still
>recognizable and explainable

Ummm.. Are they? The Deathclaws were "made" at The Glow. They're manufactured beasts from the FEV virus. So how come the ones in California don't have hair after 160 years, while the ones in the Midwest DO have hair.

The Supermutants are also manufactured from humans at the Vats. That's where every Supermutant that exists came from, the Vats. So how come they all look the same in California after 80 or so years, but look different after crossing the Rocky Mountains?

>This message is not just directed
>at NMA readers, it's a
>rant to vent steam off
>at all this anti-FO:T zealousness.

I think you just woke up and thought, "Hey, how can I make myself look foolish today?"

http://www.clanculture.com/aoa/a4c/provsledge4.jpg
 
RE: second question

[font size=1" color="#FF0000]LAST EDITED ON Mar-08-01 AT 04:59PM (GMT)[p][font size=1" color="#FF0000]LAST EDITED ON Mar-08-01 AT 04:52 PM (GMT)

>Oh yeah, and lets show our
>loss in an argument by
>analogizing a completely *cosmetic*
>change to an obscure, unreasonable
>and unexplainable change that would
>mean drastically changing the entire
>universe.

Heh. Basically, what you said before that was, 'get used to it, suckas'.

(snip snip)
>the supermutant and deathclaw art is still recognizable and >explainable
(snip snip)

Oh yes. Recognisable. In the way a grotesquely preserved bog skeleton from Ireland is recognizable as a human being. In case you think that's me trying to salvage my argument by using blind jabs, hah, no. It's me exaggerating a point to let you properly notice it. You're a little thick both ways. Knock knock?

Well, what say you about the wholesale changes to the artwork? Metal armor losing the 'wasteland' look and becoming something out of diablo 2. Robots losing their 50's pop-culture look, becoming humanoid. Fallout 2 looked like Fallout 1. FOT looked nothing like both. Cue 'recognisable, blah blah'. Oh yes. Now comes the 'deal with it, it's just eyecandy.' Go ahead and start justifying the artwork, right now. Plenty of room to maneuver there? You can try.
Remember X-com : apocalypse? And X-com: intercepter, which is an even worse varient, but I'm throwing it in. The series crapped out for years after the third X-com, because they changed the feel of the game. Howsabout Total Annihilation: Kingdoms? The TA franchise, wildly successful, died with that release. Improved engine. Improved graphics. More stuff. It died. Hell, remember Privateer 2? What happened there? What does that tell you? Idiot restructuring good? Fans should suck it down? That they should take overhauls lightly? Baaa. Doomed by complacency. You're advocating the sudden, adrupt end of series, by yes-maning all the way. I read the other threads against your argument. I see FACTS. Some sarcasm used to prod you as to the thread's meaning, but they know their stuff. And on the experience note: hah, screw you, I've been with the series as long as you have.

Of course FOT's not a _complete_, ass-backwards step in the wrong direction like the ones I mentioned, but it's heading there. Thought you might need a paragraph or two to smack some sense in there. Try to digest this properly before blurting out anything indignantly-toned.
 
RE:

Escaped lab animals, as mutated by the FEV. I don't recall if it's precisely racoons, but they were lab animals specifically used to test the effects of the FEV at work.

After 160 years, the mutation of the FEV would be pretty much at a standstill, offering little or no more changes to it's host after it's already changed them. So I doubt that in that time the FEV or radiation would have altered them THAT drastically. The deathclaws would be be pretty much all the same save for natural evolution and some accelerated - but not enough to change their entire cranial and speciel niche from predator to prey.

The DeathClaws are an agressive species, predators. As portrayed in the Fallout Universe, very little could prey ON them, so why has the offensive spikes been moved back to resemble the ones that dinosaurs had to protect their neck? As these 'DeathClaws' in FOT are more bipedal and human than anything, those spikes are held away from their neck and upwards - offering NO protection to speak of and thusly redered superfluous. The spikes of the Tricerotops is there mostly as defense too, but as one of the rare cases of such - because they also have a defensive neck frill (shield plate of bone). Speculation has been made if they do charge like elephants and rhinos, it would only make sense for such a feature on them to be used in such a manner. In ALL other cases, forward-pointing spikes and horns are typical of being used for aggression and attacking. Rhinos, elephants, deer, moose, caribou, elk, et alia.

So why do these new 'DeathClaws' look like they are supposed to be prey? Doesn't fit with the stats and characterization of DeathClaws, does it?

My guess is that MicroForte was on a winged viking helm binge when they thought most of this stuff up.


[font color=orange]
--------------------------------------------
Dennis Leary stole my song! That...asshole!
--------------------------------------------
"Robert, your time has come!"

"OOOH! Thank you, Master!"

"Don't mention it."

*Robert explodes in a shower of sparks*
--------------------------------------------
It's me, Jack Brown! The wind-up ass-hole!
--------------------------------------------
[font color=red]"The Brotherhood is not around to police the world. They're more like the mafia than any other organization. Your town needs protection? Fine. No problem. Just give us some of your children and a good percentage of your resources. Oh! Don't give us any *%$# or we'll burn your house down and put your family into one of our "Wasteland Famous" labor camps."(sic!)
[font color=green](You need to adjust your meds, Dan. Surreality is slipping through again.)

- Dan Levin on "Sellout Tactics: The Markethood of Game-Whoring
(The game may not fit into the Fallout Universe, but at least it has the Fallout name on it, and THAT's what matters! Pre-order now and get a free bag to conduct funeral services when you are done admiring how un-Fallout this game is!)"

[font color=red]"I think Dan was just getting a bit carried away with his analogy there.

There are aspects of the Brotherhood that are fascistic, especially our splinter faction, but they're not really comparable to the mafia."
[font color=green](Great that everyone's on the same level...please note the sarcasm.)

- Ed

[font color=red]"(Tony) I would redo the sprite of the Power Armor to make it more retro. Not that there is anything technically wrong with the sprite, it's a great piece of art. It's just that it is a bit out of place in the Fallout Universe. But bear in mind that we had to design it over a year ago and Interplay approved everything we did."
[font color=green](Odd, and Fallout Fans have done a much better job of capturing the style of art and all. And you call yourself a GAME ARTIST? I suppose it's like being a 'Counselor', where all you have to do is hang a sign over your door and you're in business. Shouldn't it have been obvious that retro was the theme of the game or was it a shocking revelation, playing the first two Fallout games and discovering this out?)

- Tony "I'll design and go with whatever gets approved, nevermind it's (ir)relevence to the subject matter at hand." Oakden

[font color=white]End Note: [font color=yellow]"To make the individual uncomfortable, that is my task." - Nietzsche

It has been my sole purpose to add controversey to this, a challenge. From the first day of seeing the screenshots, I knew it would take a lot of vehement protesting to make sure that the ball isn't dropped here. I've seen far too many times where the fans would just nod and moo, and the game is utter shit as an end product. A bit of a challenge is what's needed, to ensure, to prove me wrong is the purpose here. No direct, personal insult is meant by any this, but I am highlighting several of the most prevalent flub-ups so far. That's my point in all this.
Prove me wrong, I challenge you, team of Fallout Tactics.

=========================
Try Arcanum, by those who brought you the first Fallout:
http://fp.geocities.com/jonaac/2.jpg
​
 
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