Commisar Chavez wins re-election

John Uskglass

Venerable Relic of the Wastes
http://www.economist.com/agenda/displaySto...tory_id=3102178

Allenede II: The Gayening.

Quickly, somone catch the Wing Commander referance!

AFTER years of mounting economic misery and violent unrest, Venezuelans were given a historic opportunity on Sunday August 15th to vote in a “recall” referendum on whether to keep or to kick out their populist president, Hugo Chávez. They turned out in droves, queuing for hours in the hot sun to cast their votes. Partly because of the huge turnout and partly because of glitches in a new, electronic voting system, the National Electoral Council (CNE) twice had to extend voting hours; and only at midnight did polling stations finally close. Before daybreak on Monday, the CNE said that, with counting almost complete, 58% of voters had said “no” to the proposition on the ballot paper—put forward by an alliance of opposition groups—to ditch the president. Soon afterwards, a victorious Mr Chávez appeared on the balcony of the presidential palace in Caracas to sing to the cheering crowds of supporters below.

His opponents quickly denounced the results as a “gigantic fraud”. Henry Ramos Allup, one of the opposition alliance’s leaders, said they would begin gathering evidence to show that the results had been faked. More important will be the eventual pronouncements of the election observers sent by the Organisation of American States and the Carter Centre (of Jimmy Carter, a former United States president). But with Mr Chávez winning by a margin of around 1.5m votes, any vote-fixing would need to have been on a massive scale to alter the outcome. So it looks like Mr Chávez has comfortably seen off his opponents and will continue governing the South American oil-producing country until at least 2007.

Ironically for Mr Chávez, it was his own constitutional reforms, passed five years ago, that introduced the recall mechanism—which is similar to the one that led to Arnold Schwarzenegger becoming governor of California. Mr Chávez’s opponents claimed, late last year, that their petition demanding the referendum had gathered comfortably more than the 2.4m signatures they needed. But the CNE, on which Mr Chávez’s supporters have a majority, ruled that more than 1m signatures on the petition were suspect. In May, the voters concerned were required to reconfirm them. Enough did so to oblige Mr Chávez to let the referendum go ahead.

However, having overcome all the obstacles that the president and his officials put in their way, the opposition ran a lacklustre campaign, letting their initial lead in the opinion polls fade away. They failed to put forward a convincing alternative leader who might have taken Mr Chávez’s place if he had been voted out.

Furthermore, the president has remained popular among Venezuela’s poorest, despite the way his policies have impoverished the country. Since he was first elected six years ago, Venezuelans’ average income has fallen by around a quarter. The recent surge in oil prices has showered the government in oil revenues, allowing Mr Chávez to introduce some populist social programmes that may have swung him the vote. But these handouts are unlikely to compensate fully for years of steep economic decline, nor for roaring inflation (around 30% last year).

Mr Chávez, a former army colonel, had tried to seize power in a failed coup in 1992, before winning it democratically in 1998 (and again in 2000). Since becoming president he has pursued what he calls his “Bolivarian revolution”, inspired by Simón Bolívar, the Venezuelan-born general who led the Andean region’s fight for independence from Spain in the early 19th century. Also partly inspired by Fidel Castro’s communist regime in Cuba, Mr Chávez has sought to wrest Venezuela’s main institutions—from the courts to the state oil company—from the hands of the elite “oligarchy”. This has led to violent clashes between opponents and supporters of the president.

Emerging victorious from the recall vote, Mr Chávez promised that his government would continue pumping oil, to help stabilise the world market. Venezuela is the world’s fifth-largest oil exporter, providing around 13% of America’s oil imports. So, though Mr Chávez, with his fierce anti-capitalist rhetoric, is hardly a market trader’s pin-up, his soothing comments were welcomed, and brought American light crude down from the record high of $46.91 a barrel it had reached shortly before the results were announced.

Against reform, in favour of democracy

Mr Chávez’s apparent victory may be another manifestation of poorer Latin Americans’ loss of faith in the free-market reforms that swept the region in the 1980s and 1990s. These lifted many people into the middle classes but failed to reach some of those at the bottom of the heap. A Latinobarómetro poll taken in 18 Latin American countries, published exclusively in the current edition of The Economist (see article), showed that 71% agreed that their country was “governed for the benefit of a few powerful interests”.

In several recent elections, voters have opted for candidates espousing leftish policies and railing against “neo-liberalism”, such as Argentina’s President Néstor Kirchner and Brazil’s President Lula da Silva (though the latter has continued with orthodox economic policies). In Venezuela’s Andean neighbour, Bolivia, rising protests by Amerindian groups and coca growers forced the resignation last year of the country’s free-market president, Gonzalo Sánchez de Lozada.

But despite their disillusionment, the region’s voters do not want a return to the military dictatorships that ran much of Latin America until the 1980s. The Latinobarómetro poll shows that Venezuelans are among the region’s strongest supporters of democracy, with 74% agreeing that it is preferable to any other kind of government, a rise of 12 percentage points since a similar poll in 1996. What is now needed for the voters’ faith in the ballot-box to be vindicated is for Mr Chávez’s opponents to accept the referendum result (assuming it is verified) and for the president himself to stop stirring up strife and start doing a better job of running the country.
 
well according to foreign observers everything was done according to the book.

probably good for the normal people & bad for the rich...
 
Goddamn Socailists.

The Venezualan economy goes down 9% every year and his education program, which is the only reason he stays in power, has reasied literacy one percent over the last few years.

Now, think, with an economy that, despite record oil prices for the world's 5th largest exporter, goes down 9% every year, who is going to be punished in the end?
 
Goddamn Socailists.

Actually, Chavez is not a socialist, he is more of a moderate. But I agree that the situation in Venezuela is unstable at the moment, which is why Chavez should stop trying to appease both sides and make Venezuela a socialist country.
 
Chavez is the only one keeping Cuba with its head over the water. He is trading Oil for teachers, medics, nurses and engineers as Cuba has PLENTY of overqualified people. Long live my friend Chavito!!
 
Flop said:
Goddamn Socailists.

Actually, Chavez is not a socialist, he is more of a moderate. But I agree that the situation in Venezuela is unstable at the moment, which is why Chavez should stop trying to appease both sides and make Venezuela a socialist country.

You're talking out of you're ass. He views wage labour as a form of slavery. He's more a commie then a socialist. Guy should end up like Allende.
 
Street Politics

Street Politics


C.
You're talking out of you're ass. He views wage labour as a form of slavery. He's more a commie then a socialist. Guy should end up like Allende.

Why so shy?

Allende was killed in an U.S. government sanctioned coupe, in the 'bad old days" of the Cold War. An era of dirty (secret) wars in our sister 'democracies' that rivaled the antics of Stalin in moral fervor, if not in body counts.

... commie ...
No WMD to root out in South America, so the old Cold War rhetoric will have to do.

Are you advocating the violent overthrow of a sovereign state?
Does the - internal - politics of oil states, single resource economys, really concern you? What are your gifted politico-economic insights (or insults), and dysfunctional 'labels' (or insults) about Nigera, the Gulf States, and the country that fathered most of the 9-11 air crews, Saudi Arabia? Any kind words for Norway? Might be some form of "socialized" medicine there, it's one of those -scandinavian- crutches one of those 'old' euro' ways of coping with post WW2 economics.
Say, are you advocating the violent overthrow of these sovereign states?

Or will insulting those oligarchies, those oil barons, massage your wounded psyche, and comfort your last standing-super power world view while you fill your gas tank?

2004. Are you cognate that two Yale graduate - Oligarchs - are the party candidates to be the "Head Fed", or does that hold to your divine right of kings sensibilities, that the government "of the people" is bought and sold, no, maybe it's "rented", every 4 years.

Bet we can buy a SUV with that kick back the candidates call a
"tax cut". Not that I feel easy with their pandering to all tax brackets with that welfare state mentality. A group think that is nurtured, every 2 to 4 years.

Wait, I've drifted too close to home! Tax breaks-kick backs- wealfare state----- the sell out (or renting) of the "by the people" government --- socialism?

So you're pissed about a - single - resource export economy lead for the moment by a populist 'demagogue'.


Don't be shy, ... are you upset about the price of gas?

Tell the Europeans (both Old and New Euro' so we don't confuse the acolytes of the neo conservatives). Tell the Europeans in these forums, how much you spend, a gallon on gas. and how often and how far you drive every week, and wonder why they don't seem to care about rhetorical labels (insults) with Cold War manipulations, when the underlying freedom you advocate may be the freedom to consume --- gasoline. And, not in a 'free market' where the oil is sold to the highest bidder, but in a "fear market" where the oil goes at the 'set' price to the last standing 'super power' in the solar system.

If this "southern" populist gave you free (or rather, cheaper) gas would that hold back the black helicopters of 'Freedom', and save him from your righteous wrath?


Or, are you only upset about the price of gas?




4too
 
Does the - internal - politics of oil states, single resource economys, really concern you? What are your gifted politico-economic insights (or insults), and dysfunctional 'labels' (or insults) about Nigera, the Gulf States, and the country that fathered most of the 9-11 air crews, Saudi Arabia? Any kind words for Norway? Might be some form of "socialized" medicine there, it's one of those -scandinavian- crutches one of those 'old' euro' ways of coping with post WW2 economics.
I actually don't support any of those nations, and as long as they don't fall into the hands of the Islamofascists all thier governments should be overthrown.

Neo-Conism is a revolutionary ideology, idiot. We don't belive that some Emir in Saudi Arabia should be a billionare while his peopel starve and are radicalized due to a lack of non-religious education.
Say, are you advocating the violent overthrow of these sovereign states?
Neo-Con ideology has no problem with it as long as it's not an Islamofascist takeover. Neither do I for that matter.


Or will insulting those oligarchies, those oil barons, massage your wounded psyche, and comfort your last standing-super power world view while you fill your gas tank?
This-actually-has nothing to do with oil as I only use my car about once a week. The truth is that Chavez is destroyign the Venezualan economy and hurting the poor.

2004. Are you cognate that two Yale graduate - Oligarchs - are the party candidates to be the "Head Fed", or does that hold to your divine right of kings sensibilities, that the government "of the people" is bought and sold, no, maybe it's "rented", every 4 years.
Truly a glorious Ode de Off Topic.


Tell the Europeans (both Old and New Euro' so we don't confuse the acolytes of the neo conservatives). Tell the Europeans in these forums, how much you spend, a gallon on gas. and how often and how far you drive every week, and wonder why they don't seem to care about rhetorical labels (insults) with Cold War manipulations, when the underlying freedom you advocate may be the freedom to consume --- gasoline. And, not in a 'free market' where the oil is sold to the highest bidder, but in a "fear market" where the oil goes at the 'set' price to the last standing 'super power' in the solar system.

This has nothing to do with gasoline you relic. It's a bout an incompetent leader who is, again, hurting you're beloved working class as much as anybody.

Chavez is a nincompoop and an idiot destroying what could be the richest nation in Latin America, however, he is content to destroy the economy and hold on to power. He's as bad as Mughabe.
 
Should we stop criticizing people for driving their own nation into the ground? Oh wait! That means that 3/4 of the political discussions on this board have absolutely no place, since Europeans have no business in American/foreign politics.

While that's not necessarily a bad thing, that's not really as fun now, is it?

Also, how does Chavez being a populist translate to higher oil prices?

Neo-Conism is a revolutionary ideology, idiot. We don't belive that some Emir in Saudi Arabia should be a billionare while his peopel starve and are radicalized due to a lack of non-religious education.

I thought the Neo-Cons were the disenfranchised children of Pro War Democrats that didn't live way down in Dixie (i.e. Dixiecrats).
 
Out Of The Closet

Out Of The Closet

C.:
... Chavez is a nincompoop and an idiot destroying what could be the richest nation in Latin America, however, he is content to destroy the economy and hold on to power. He's as bad as Mughabe.

If this was the "real" point of posting a fairly straight news quote and a few clues of your "real' opinion, then I wouldn't have much to comment.
In fact I'm glad you know that the auto is about transportation and getting work done and not a God given "lifestyle".

I'm guessing that we are in agreement on many topics, but I've been profiled as an 'idiot ' so you will have to politically educate me, what all this 'neo-con" and revolutionary posturing is all about.



It's your rhetorical 'style' I find sophomoric and snotty.

When you jumped those who see as positive, this right to vote, this 'populist' surviving his recall as:
Goddamn Socailists.

I recall the rhetorical ambushes of the Politically Correct that I had to endure in my social education. It's a tactic used by all extremes of political opinion and it's all about bullying and beating down 'free' thought. Left or right, green or skin head, it's the way the true religion, of the day, is enforced.

It's all about labeling and name calling and forcing agreement or you will be a petulant bitch of self righteous snottiness. Did it work on your mom? Does name calling work for you "in the street" when you and your - comrades - step out in style to 'preen' and strut the next 'new' wave?

"Neo-con"? Revolutionary?

How well was neo conservatism accepted in Iraq?
Will the Neo-con's falsify a threat in Ven. so that "oil" nation can become the next nation liberated? Is that where the 2 divisions to be moved from Germany are going to be stationed?

"Neo-con"? Revolutionary?

How do you rationalize the "social" aspects of revolution? When will the unwashed get to vote for you? How do you plan, NOT to be a socialist big government lackey, when you have beaten us 'relics' down with your higher moral attitude. You don't see the relevance of oil and economic power, and the brahmin, oligarchic roots of the two major political candidates that most Americans may vote for or against, this fall. Voting seems to be a part of this thread and I want to know your opinion on voting. Or, am I not allowed, you "own" this thread, just as you"own" anything else you can beg, borrow, bully, or steal?

You do vote don't you? You do give a sh't enough to follow the smoke and mirrors and -vote- for someone or something. You whine about a south American populace voting, but statics in America say you don't vote. You do vote don't you? A minority of Americans vote, statics in America say you don't vote. You do vote don't you?

They used a touch screen voting system in Ven., sounds like the same system that the Republican Secretary Of State in Ohio wants his picked vendor to replace the 80% of punch card voting in this state. (LOOK MA! NO PAPER RECEIPTS! NO PAPER TRAIL!) But Ohio has no oil dollars to throw away on such 'modern' conveniences. Still having problems getting more state funding to ANY schools, public or 'charter'. Still using punch cards in your 'burg, or you don't know? You do vote don't you? Or are you a convicted felon? Please make this point clear and not dodge this sign of personal political integrity. Unless your true intension was to troll and dis' , and bully.

"Neo-con"? Revolutionary? What's the status of your shadow government, does it get you laid talking tough? It's time to come out of the closet. Do you advocate the destruction of the Constitution of the United States? Have you been 'interviewed' by the FBI? What are your colors? Skin heads, tatoos, piercings, circumcised ? Are you all 'hip' and 'trendy' with lots of sex appeal? How will I know your gang from any other "street politicians".

Brown Shirts? Do you sing to "'The Future Belongs To Me""?

Black Shirts?

Militia Camo? Stockpiling that fertilizer for a "greener" lawn?

Red - Guards?

Youth Pioneers? Or the "Christian" Boy Scouts Of America?

Am I name calling? How do I know I'm here to be educated. Recall, you profiled me as an "idiot". And so you beat down all those who object to your snotty -go to hell- style. YOU tell me as the locale,
SELF APPOINTED -- commissar -- of 'neo conservative' POLITICAL CORRECTNESS.


...

I

Neo-Conism is a revolutionary ideology, idiot. We don't belive that some Emir in Saudi Arabia should be a billionare while his peopel starve and are radicalized due to a lack of non-religious education.

...

Neo-Con ideology has no problem with it as long as it's not an Islamofascist takeover. Neither do I for that matter.

...

This-actually-has nothing to do with oil as I only use my car about once a week. The truth is that Chavez is destroyign the Venezualan economy and hurting the poor.

...

...

This has nothing to do with gasoline you relic. It's a bout an incompetent leader who is, again, hurting you're beloved working class as much as anybody.

...

I take it that you do not see the ""poor"" and the ""working class"" as including the same group of people. Your revolution must advocate a "classless" society. Or this is the typical disconnect from reality that all elitests wallow in and glorify.

If you did link the two groups of people, you'd see that you wave the bloody shirt, shriek moral concern for the ""poor"'
from one side of your mouth, ..., while you dis' "'the working class""
, and working class - types - like myself, out of the other.

Need a forked tongue to do that. or are you that -orally- gifted? Plan on
these slips, or lies, being over looked, and lost in your aggressive name calling?

Studying for a degree in demagoguery?


Oh, and do you condescend to vote,

and will your 'revolution" be televised.



4too
 
ConstipatedCraprunner said:
Flop said:
Goddamn Socailists.

Actually, Chavez is not a socialist, he is more of a moderate. But I agree that the situation in Venezuela is unstable at the moment, which is why Chavez should stop trying to appease both sides and make Venezuela a socialist country.

You're talking out of you're ass. He views wage labour as a form of slavery. He's more a commie then a socialist. Guy should end up like Allende.

Cite sources... and no, you can't use Michael Savage. He only appears to be a "commie" if you're Reactionary.

Chavez is using FDR style policy to get his country out of a hole. You pissed off that the whites of the nation no longer own everything?

Seriously, turn off that Fox.

Citation
 
Also, how does Chavez being a populist translate to higher oil prices?
It does'nt. He's still exporting oil.


I thought the Neo-Cons were the disenfranchised children of Pro War Democrats that didn't live way down in Dixie (i.e. Dixiecrats).
Yep. But it has a big influence from Trotskyism in that it belives in a permanant state of revolution.
 
Well Goddamn, no wonder Bush is such a nutcase.

Chavez is using FDR style policy to get his country out of a hole.

How exactly do Chavez's policies parallel FDR? FDR's socialist policies were at least productive, in the sense that they provided government jobs to people that built roads, highways, bridges, towns, libraries, etc. The town of Nowata 30 miles to the east of me was given desperately needed maintenance by FDR's policies. (its a hole in the ground now because all of the young'uns moved out as soon as the could, but it helped nonetheless)

Is Chavez providing the same expansion of infrastructure, or is he merely inflating education?
 
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