Madrid Terrorist Bombings

[quietfanatic]

The terrible bombing of several commuter trains in Madrid at 7:30, just at rush hour, has brought the world once more, to a shocked stand still.

200 dead and mounting as the many wounded fight for their lives.

I am so cold.

Who was it. Nobody has claimed responcibiliity as of yet.

Was it ETA (Basque independence fighters) if so, it marks a major and horrific change in tactics.


Was it one of the Arab terrorist organisations?

Or some other nut.

 

[Elissar]

http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5366


The Order's already ahead of you.


Tragic about the bombing's though.

 

[quietfanatic]

They have a poll too which I cannot access (damn order or was it blocked by some PC bastard).

It says that Al-Queda has claimed responcibility. But that could be oppurtunistic rubbish.

As to if they would work together, devout Christian, European, conservatives are some of the least likely people to cooperate with Islamic extremists. It would at best achieve the complete destruction of ETA as they became hypocritical and even more divided from the population.

 

[Elissar]

If your not an order member you cant paricipate in an order poll.

 

[Sander]

Go Luke!

Anyway, I doubt it's the ETA. The ETA has never done such large scale bombings before, the ETA did not claim responsibility nor did it warn beforehand(something they did with every other attack).

 

[alec]

I doubt it's the ETA. The ETA has never done such large scale bombings before, the ETA did not claim responsibility nor did it warn beforehand (something they did with every other attack).

Yeah, that is indeed a good point. Do you think it's Al Qaeda then?

 

[King of Creation]

The Spanish government is still saying that ETA is the prime suspect, even with the Al Qaeda letter. Although, this attack very well could have been commited by Al Qaeda. There is a strikingly symbolic point to the Madrid attacks. This is what MSNBC.com had to say:

Among the tantalizing hints that Osama bin Laden's terrorist group might be involved were the discovery of detonators and an Arabic-language cassette with Quranic verses in a stolen van outside Madrid and the fact that the attack occurred exactly 2 1/2 years -- and 911 days -- after al-Qaida carried out the Sept. 11, 2001, terror attacks in the United States.

So the Madrid attacks occured exactly 911 days after the 9/11 Trade Center and Pentagon attacks. Coincidence?

 

[Brother None]

I doubt it's the ETA. The ETA has never done such large scale bombings before, the ETA did not claim responsibility nor did it warn beforehand (something they did with every other attack).

Yeah, that is indeed a good point. Do you think it's Al Qaeda then?

Why is it always Al Qaeda? Man, I can't but believe that organisation EXPLODED after the crack-down at 9/11. They must've grown hugely in numbers. They were big before, but the fact that they did 9/11 has done them some real good...seriously, it's tough, but it's the truth.

I don't hold it impossible that it's the ETA. Just because they didn't do it before in this way doesn't mean it's impossible they did it.

But I'd like to point out a lot of militant muslim organisations really, really hate Spain, with it's cross-muslim history, extreme catholicism and always giving the US fellatio. A lot of them would like to get at Spain, I wouldn't count any out

Oh, and Sander, did you realise that with us being in Iraq, having been in Afghanistan, sucking up to the US and now, to finalize the deal, kicking out a large number of immigrants, we're pretty goddamn high-up on any terrorist hitlist? It really amazes me how secure we can still feel...

 

[Big T]

I think it's more likely to be ETA.
-They have tried similar attacks on trains before (with Rucksack bombs).
-They have used the same explosives before (IIRC, one of their members was caught in S.France with some quantity of it a few weeks ago).
-The arabic casette is a wee bit too pat: It's just short of leaving a pair of sandals, a camel and a note saying "Osama woz 'ere" (or it's equivalent in Arabic.

The only difference is the scale, and the lack of warning/claiming of the attack.

 

[Sander]

Yes, I do think it's Al Qaeda. It almost has to be Al Qaeda. Whenever you commit a terrorist attack ,you claim responsibility. And since there's only one claim...

Oh, and Sander, did you realise that with us being in Iraq, having been in Afghanistan, sucking up to the US and now, to finalize the deal, kicking out a large number of immigrants, we're pretty goddamn high-up on any terrorist hitlist? It really amazes me how secure we can still feel...

Yep, I had realised that. Right after I heard about the terrorist bombing(which was, interestingly, in class)...
Thread derailment:
Meh, I wonder how long it'll take for the cabinet to fall(It'll probably happen within a year, methinks). And I wonder whether new politics will change anything about it. Bah.(New cabinet could be interesting. Especially if the current cabinet keeps up it's bad work, and alienates even more voters. More voters to the socialist parties, would probably mean a PvdA/VVD cabinet).

 

[Brother None]

Meh, I wonder how long it'll take for the cabinet to fall(It'll probably happen within a year, methinks). And I wonder whether new politics will change anything about it. Bah.(New cabinet could be interesting. Especially if the current cabinet keeps up it's bad work, and alienates even more voters. More voters to the socialist parties, would probably mean a PvdA/VVD cabinet).

Yeah, PvdA + VVD Think PvdA + CDA sooner. Or CDA and VVD will pick up the LPF just to prevent a PvdA government

I don't see any clear reason for the cabinet to fall any time soon. The three parties seem to have reached an agreement on most subject, so who has the power to make them fall?

 

[Sander]

Yeah, PvdA + VVD Think PvdA + CDA sooner. Or CDA and VVD will pick up the LPF just to prevent a PvdA government

I don't see any clear reason for the cabinet to fall any time soon. The three parties seem to have reached an agreement on most subject, so who has the power to make them fall?

Meh, the cabinet looks really really shaky. There have already been two incidents of ministers not wanting to follow the Tweede Kamer, and CDA is losing a LOT of voters with what it's doing.
Latest poll showed a PvdA increase to 55(IIRC) and a CDA drop to 26.
Although a PvdA/CDA combination is possibly, methinks that they'll still go for PvdA/VVD.
And because the PvdA will probably be the largest party with the next elections, it can't be a VVD/CDA/something cabinet. Unless, of course, the person selecting the combination that will be tried out first(officially the queen) will go nuts(or CDA or VVD decide to be complete fools and ignore the voters' wishes.)

I think it's more likely to be ETA.
-They have tried similar attacks on trains before (with Rucksack bombs).

Which means nothing. Anyone can attack a train with a rucksack bomb.

-They have used the same explosives before (IIRC, one of their members was caught in S.France with some quantity of it a few weeks ago).

And anyone can use those explosives...

-The arabic casette is a wee bit too pat: It's just short of leaving a pair of sandals, a camel and a note saying "Osama woz 'ere" (or it's equivalent in Arabic.

And what could the ETA possibly gain by incriminating Al Qaeda?
When you're a terrorist, you want people to know that YOU did it, because otherwise, your attack will have meant nothing.
What could be possible is an ETA/Al Qaeda cooperation. But I doubt it, I don't think Al Qaeda would want to cooperate with a non-muslim group that basically has nothing in common with them.

 

[Big T]

I think it's more likely to be ETA.
-They have tried similar attacks on trains before (with Rucksack bombs).

Which means nothing. Anyone can attack a train with a rucksack bomb.

-They have used the same explosives before (IIRC, one of their members was caught in S.France with some quantity of it a few weeks ago).

And anyone can use those explosives...

Obviously, but it is the same modus operandi

And what could the ETA possibly gain by incriminating Al Qaeda?
When you're a terrorist, you want people to know that YOU did it, because otherwise, your attack will have meant nothing.

I don't know. The only possible reason I can think of is that they were afraid of the repercussions. Maybe the attack was more effective than they planned for, or the level of outcry was.

What could be possible is an ETA/Al Qaeda cooperation. But I doubt it, I don't think Al Qaeda would want to cooperate with a non-muslim group that basically has nothing in common with them.

Common enemy? As it is, I am doubtful of a collaboration between the two. Anoth possibility that has been put forward is that of an ETA splinter group. A new splinter group may want to make a big impact to "establish" themselves

 

[Sander]

Obviously, but it is the same modus operandi

Yep, but it doesn't prove anything. If I were to fly a plane into a building, I'm not automatically Al Qaeda, you know.

I don't know. The only possible reason I can think of is that they were afraid of the repercussions. Maybe the attack was more effective than they planned for, or the level of outcry was.

They're terrorists. They try to cause as much damage as possible. Really, it's all too farfetched to try to place the blame on the ETA.

Common enemy? As it is, I am doubtful of a collaboration between the two. Anoth possibility that has been put forward is that of an ETA splinter group. A new splinter group may want to make a big impact to "establish" themselves

Yeah, but if you want to establish yourself, you'll want to let people know YOU did it.

 

[John Uskglass]

Dutchies turning an innocent topic in into one about their local politics.........weirdness.

Kharn, what are most of the immigrants to Dutchieland? I thought most of them where Turks, but I get the impression from some of my Turkish friends that they are largely Anatolian (ie non Agean, non Black Sea, non Medditeranian) Turks, who tend to be a little lss, well, western.

It could, in theroy, be an ETA fuckup where they had no idea they would kill so many people. But I am thinking Al-Queda. Damn, do they hate spain.

Weirdly, the Turks dont exactly have a hard on for the Spanish. Thier Jewish community is almost entirely of Spanish extraction, and at the naval battle of Lepanto it was the Spanish navy that really kicked thier asses. Oddly enough, Miguel Cervantes had his left hand deformed in that battle, but said he would trade it for nothing in the world.

 

[Big T]

Yep, but it doesn't prove anything. If I were to fly a plane into a building, I'm not automatically Al Qaeda, you know.

Yeah, but it doesn't mean that you aren't Al Qaeda

They're terrorists. They try to cause as much damage as possible. Really, it's all too farfetched to try to place the blame on the ETA.

And it's not farfetched to blame every single terrorist attack on Al Qaeda?

Yeah, but if you want to establish yourself, you'll want to let people know YOU did it.

Maybe they will?
You may well be right (that it isn't ETA), but I think the way the American government tries to pin everything on OBL is daft. It's not as if theya are omnipotent, and they are certainly not the only terrorist group in the world (only the most publicised).

 

[John Uskglass]

Swedish news just reported that Norwegian intelligence (must... exercise... self-discipline...) has had in its posession for 6 months a 42-page document, written in Arabic and dedicated to a leading Al-Qaeda ideologist "martyred" by Saudi secirity forces, described as a strategy document. In the document six pages are dedicated to Spain which is characterized as the weakest member of the "coalition of the willing" and that it should be struck first and during the elections. According to the strategy this could force Spain out of Iraq which in turn could starta the domino effect of the US´s European allies dropping out.

The document was shown along with an interview of a Norwegian intelligence analyst.

If it´s truly Al-Qaeda I really hope their plan backfires.


From a forum I visit.

 

[Wooz]

That's interesting. You see, I doubt Spain is the "weakest" member of the Coalition... At least them Spaniards have some experience in dealing with terrorism, they have the ETA and other crazies to deal with, not to mention experience passed on from the Franco era about dealing with left wing extremists, which commited terrorist bombings as well.

In that case, I think Poland is much less prepared for a terrorist attack than Spain...

 

[Sander]

Kharn, what are most of the immigrants to Dutchieland? I thought most of them where Turks, but I get the impression from some of my Turkish friends that they are largely Anatolian (ie non Agean, non Black Sea, non Medditeranian) Turks, who tend to be a little lss, well, western.

Turks, Maroccans and Antilleans are the major immigrants.

Yeah, but it doesn't mean that you aren't Al Qaeda

Indeed, but just saying that I'm Al Qaeda because of a similar modus operandi is silly.

And it's not farfetched to blame every single terrorist attack on Al Qaeda?

A) Van.
B) They.claimed.the.attack.

Maybe they will?
You may well be right (that it isn't ETA), but I think the way the American government tries to pin everything on OBL is daft. It's not as if theya are omnipotent, and they are certainly not the only terrorist group in the world (only the most publicised).

The American government isn't pinnin anything. The Spanish government, however, is trying to pin it on the ETA, which I find a lot more daft.

If it´s truly Al-Qaeda I really hope their plan backfires.

Interesting stuff.
But I'll hope that any terrorist plan will backfire no matter who committed the attacks.

 

[John Uskglass]

That's interesting. You see, I doubt Spain is the "weakest" member of the Coalition... At least them Spaniards have some experience in dealing with terrorism, they have the ETA and other crazies to deal with, not to mention experience passed on from the Franco era about dealing with left wing extremists, which commited terrorist bombings as well.

In that case, I think Poland is much less prepared for a terrorist attack than Spain...

Maybe it is just me, but I dont remember the great Caliphate of Cracow.

Spain up to Austrias and Barcelona is considerd part of Dar-al-Islam. Hence Islam must always be progressing, it is really a nasty blemish that one of the most important areas for Muslim incursions into Western Christiandom was wiped out.

I also find it funny that Osama literally LOVES Al-Andalus, dispite the fact that they where WORSE then the Shiites in terms of being apostates, as they where not Abbasid (ie more Irainian based) Muslims, and instead focused on the Syrian, Greek and Spanish parts of thier origins.