Rosh talks about Bethesda

Hirle said:
Bethesda have one thing going for them though, they suceeded to create a real-world-feel in morrowind (graphicly that is, cause the story/characters/dialog werent worth shit), which would be awesome to see in fallout....

Thank you for sharing. When I speak of design, I don't infer superficial bullshit like graphics. World design, not how pretty everything looks. World design, as a very important aspect to CRPGs, which you've just now claimed to have sucked ass in Morrowind. So how would that work for Fallout?

No, you and IAmJeff are a little to caught up on one thing. You fail to understand the basic design of the game and why it was done so.

And, yet again, the attention whore of "GameDev" arises. What, did the other forums get tired of your shameless spamming of their sites, with vague and empty bullshit promises in the definition of a pipe-dream? Oh, and it is "addictive" before it even got to Alpha stage. Wait, you took that off from your site.

The three of you are wholly clueless about game design and why series have failed.

So you've decided in the 5 seconds that the ink has been dry that you have to know everything or at the very least the core of the important decisions? Someone sounds like they need a nap and a burping.

Where is it written in stone that someone cant option a property based on its intrinsic value and not lock itself into words that will be spitted back at them at the first sign of ideas being changed?
Id think you'd be happy that they want to do something right and not fast.

Spoken like the hype whore cattle you've always made yourself out to be. I'm sorry if we don't like to tapdance through the hype, that's your game and modus. You're also in a very slim and unbelievably dense population if you believe that the Fallout fans shouldn't be more than inquisitive. Were you also as devoid of intelligence for the Ultima fans who were getting the franchise jerked around again with UXO, and they are expected to follow it? Are you seriously THAT stupid, boy? You've all done nothing but prove that you have little idea as to why games develop into series, which is fairly typical of people who have had little experience in or around the game industry. It would have also helped if you had bothered to read before adding in.

Here's the bonus piece:

So because a firm is good at something and unproven in another means there's absolutely no way that they could ever, ever...ever switch, overcome, adapt and achieve?

Funny, I thought they had already said that they were going to do what they do best, and that it wasn't going to be...hell, you're not even paying attention. You are one of the many that are just seeking attention. I didn't think you'd show up in this discussion since you had no clue as to what the setting and design are, yet claim to be making a MMORPG "in Fallout tradition" with McLarens that have turbo-charging.

Did I forget to call you a retard already, or did I post sufficient proof in this post? Or would this help as well?
 
Ha Ha Ha. I never went back to reply to your other thread since it was so riddled with holes and you'd never leave your own fantasy world to be objective. Im sure you will always think you got the better of me...but like TWO of the admins of other popular Fallout sites told me ...wait let me get the email...

He [Rosh]often has very good, wel argumented points, but damn, he often considers himself the center of the world, if you know what I mean. Most of the people at v0/v52/Stgfc/vault0.org don't care about them either.

Malign me all you want...despite that fact that I did give you some props for what you said.

Like I said before, you definitely got the point across that the FO community knows hype, backpeddling, and crap when it sees it.

You just need to realize that something doesnt have to be 100% faithful to what YOU deem the essentials to be for the game to be worth a damn. Oh I surely understand " why games develop into series"...but it seems you've missed that exact point. Things dont have to be static, dull, exactly the same for the next installment to be worthwhile. I guess you're still crying in your Wheaties about the last two Matrix movies.

Your "Im the ultimate hardass" schtick has its uses...but dont actually stary buying into your own hype. You can still be a hardliner who never gives up the good fight without treating people laboring to extend the life of your prized chattel like crap.

But thats your m.o.

Im going to sit back and watch several things happen.

1. Ill watch you get less and less attention from the Bethes Devs who wont listen to a whiner who's accusing them

2. Ill watch them produce a game that (whether its crap or fantastic) you have decided already that you will hate.

3. Ill watch other people with fair minds give it a decent shot while you fume and consume yourself.
 
GameDev said:
Things dont have to be static, dull, exactly the same for the next installment to be worthwhile. I guess you're still crying in your Wheaties about the last two Matrix movies.

You just picked the worst example in the universe to make your point. OK, Reloaded has the freeway scene, which actually stands repeated viewing. But Revolutions is pure distilled lack of content.
 
Thank you for sharing.

you're welcome, man. i do it all for you.

I don't infer superficial bullshit like graphics. World design, not how pretty everything looks. World design, as a very important aspect to CRPGs, which you've just now claimed to have sucked ass in Morrowind. So how would that work for Fallout?

Believe it or not but what you see on your screen is pretty goddamn important for how a game "feels". Morrowind, graphically, gave me the impression of walking around in a solid coherent world, this would, i think, work very well in Fallout. Too bad that when you stopped walking and took the time to speak to people things fell apart rather quickly, this is why i did not finish morrowind (and spent most of my time with it exploring, not doing quests or talking to people) and because i'd like to finish FO3, i think this would not work in FO3 for me. Its all so easy, if only you'd try.

(note: this is not about how many fucking pixels the game has), (also note: that this is my opinion of morrowind and gaming overall, you might not agree and that is a-ok, but if you think that the graphical aspect (again, not the technologies, the pixels or whatever) of a game is superficial bullshit, then computer gaming (save all text-text adventures, MUDs and that sort of thing) might not be your thing)

i'm also a bit unhappy that me and IAmJeff are being put in 1 group, i disagreed with a solid 100% of what he said, but hey, shit happens.
 
Per said:
GameDev said:
Things dont have to be static, dull, exactly the same for the next installment to be worthwhile. I guess you're still crying in your Wheaties about the last two Matrix movies.

You just picked the worst example in the universe to make your point. OK, Reloaded has the freeway scene, which actually stands repeated viewing. But Revolutions is pure distilled lack of content.

Agreed. I just picked the first franchise with disaffected fanbois that came to mind. :P
 
Why are Bethesda's comments being labeled evasive and dishonest when people simply don't know the internal processes going on at the company; you know, it really could just be that they haven't decided how they're going to do the game - what you're seeing as evasiveness is just honesty; God knows if they gave an answer now and had to change it later, the peasants would be at the castle gates with pitchforks and torches...
 
fallguy said:
Why are Bethesda's comments being labeled evasive and dishonest when people simply don't know the internal processes going on at the company; you know, it really could just be that they haven't decided how they're going to do the game - what you're seeing as evasiveness is just honesty; God knows if they gave an answer now and had to change it later, the peasants would be at the castle gates with pitchforks and torches...


Let's see... let me mix some previous comments together and we have...

Bethesda Dev said:
We've been thinking about doing this game for a long time... but it's not what we do, and we're not sure how we're going to do it

Yeah.. that just makes me feel all warm and fuzzy :)
 
jaberwocki said:
then they should have stayed silent until they were sure what they were going to do with the licence.

Hahahahahahah....Yeah, Hervey was gonna let this one go down without the press knowing about it. All this does, in his mind, is boost up popularity for his UL7RA M3g4 1337 pwnag3 FOOL
 
GameDev said:
Ha Ha Ha. I never went back to reply to your other thread since it was so riddled with holes and you'd never leave your own fantasy world to be objective.

Really? Never have you once proven that your laughable wad of pretentious bullshit was anything like Fallout. In fact, you became known as a sorry excuse for a developer when you'll spam around "lookat me! I'm a MMOG developer! We need people, we are great! It's addictive and immersive! Look at all these features! It's just like X game!" Sorry, dipshit, you've lost on terms of dishonesty there, too. If anyone is living in a fantasy world, it's you, defined by the lies and dishonesty you perpetuate.

Im sure you will always think you got the better of me...but like TWO of the admins of other popular Fallout sites told me ...wait let me get the email...

He [Rosh]often has very good, wel argumented points, but damn, he often considers himself the center of the world, if you know what I mean. Most of the people at v0/v52/Stgfc/vault0.org don't care about them either.

Two admins, one quote. I also have to shrug, as it proves nothing in regards to the subject nor your complete inability to understand the subject.

Malign me all you want...despite that fact that I did give you some props for what you said.

Congratulations on finding your way to the internet, fucktard.
Now please die. Or go back to being a financial adviser of 31-33 years (you can't decide, it appears) and stop the pretentious bullshit of yours. Everything you've posted on this topic is pretty much empty waffling, that we're supposed to accept design changes for the hell of it, despite if it fits into the setting and game's original design intent. That's why Fallout fans expect a CRPG and not your crackheaded pocket fantasy of a "game".

You just need to realize that something doesnt have to be 100% faithful to what YOU deem the essentials to be for the game to be worth a damn. Oh I surely understand " why games develop into series"...but it seems you've missed that exact point.

I know that point. You, however, are still ignorant if you try that statement. Game series DIE because their formulas are screwed with for superfluous reasons. Then why are you advocating change within that very likelihood? Do you seriously have any understanding of the bullshit you try to fake with? Rhetorical question, you'll never answer it.

Things dont have to be static, dull, exactly the same for the next installment to be worthwhile. I guess you're still crying in your Wheaties about the last two Matrix movies.

The first one had talent behind it. If the others had enough build-up and evident talent put behind them as the first one, then perhaps it isn't hard to expect that people wouldn't care for it. People expected build-up and more depth, but instead they got a CGI version of a Tex Avery cartoon.

Good game series are much the same. The fans like what came before, but they like to see grander things for the sequels, but still kept along the same tone as the originals.

Now, suggest that they suddenly take out the bullet and camera effects for the second and third and put in phasers or something a bit more visually appealing, and then you'll have the equivalent to what your ignorant self is claiming "okay". It would be missing a point of the presentation style, and it would then feel odd for the first movie, or even first two, to possess such aspects and the third does not.

To make a more crude and simpler metaphor for GameDev's behalf, it would be like how Shiny buttfucked the Matrix license with EtM.

I hope you're bright enough to put together that parallel, as I'm done wasting my time on you.

Your "Im the ultimate hardass" schtick has its uses...but dont actually stary buying into your own hype. You can still be a hardliner who never gives up the good fight without treating people laboring to extend the life of your prized chattel like crap.

No, I'm only hard on the stupid, because educational development dictates that if positive reinforcement had no real effect (i.e. you gaining a clue on your own and presenting something that is a hell of a lot more informed) then negative reinforcement should be tried.

Well, it looks like the negative reinforcement has caught your attention, but unfortunately you're still far too dense to put the concepts together. That is why you never have a difinitive reply to me. That is because I usually have the facts and you're too busy mentally masturbating off in your own little world, and then you have to resort to non sequitur replies. Well, unless the replies have little to do with the discussion.

It's pretentious attention whores like you that gives indie game developers a bad name. You just regurgitate some marketing spiel and some buzzwords you've picked up here and there, but when it comes down to it, you don't know a damn thing.

I have my integrity, in cutting into the bullshit or in backing someone into such a position where they have no choice but to come clean. You, however, have no shame in presenting yourself as a shitty developer.

Hirle: I understand your point, but graphics are usually not a primary concern to CRPG development. Otherwise, other aspects can and likely will suffer. However, their artwork was pretty good, I do have to give them that. Too bad I didn't feel that the world design matched up as well. I was pretty much pointing out that by world design, I mean a cohesive world like Ultima or perhaps Gothic. Morrowind did feel a little hollow and the NPCs as zombies. That's...another issue that I have with them expecting to suddenly come up with exceptional NPCs when in the past they have been cookie cutter to an extreme.

fallguy: Maybe because they are? They've also taken a look at how design would be, mainly because a company would have to evaluate the design intents of the game before they shell out a shitload of money for it. Hell, just the fact that they've blown money on it points out to the fact that they have some firm idea for...fuck it, the kids aren't even bothering to read any of this. You didn't bother to the first time around.

Which I've already said but the damn newbies keep posting into threads without bothering to read them and associated subjects. Sorry if you have to read, kiddies, it's part of learning.

jaberwocki: It would have been most wise, if they really did know the fans around the license. Otherwise, they wouldn't have had a repeat of F:POS.
 
offtopic

Can y'all ban GameDev yet ?

His spamming stupidity, while funny, makes it hard to bother reading the entire thread since he just spamms his lies constantly.




ontopic

I agree with ya 100% Rosh, although I wouldve been a bit more polite.

Personaly, I think that they should just upgrade the FO engine way past what was done woth FO2 and build the new game using that because when I think of fallout three, I think of the same engine that the first 2 used, simply tweaked a bit, with a new story to tell.
 
GameDev has been banned. I would have liked to have said that was a joke account perpetuated by someone, but that kind of inbred monkey does exist in the human race, sad to say. I thought he would have stayed in the other threads where dear ol' Arthur has made it clear he desires attention, no matter what. Unfortunately, he had to cross the line, and this mess was the result of which. For that, I apologize for letting it get out of hand; that moron was only around for my personal amusement in regards to his ignorance of the Fallout universe and his claims of a MMOG that stays true to the "Fallout legacy", but has uh...McLarens and other shit that makes it clear he meant "legacy" in superficial means.

As for my tone, it's one I've had to adapt. It has worked well on dense recruits and airmen that were mistakenly sent out to fleet because they took a test well. Cabbage is the term for idiot in British slang; for the US Navy, it is "Radioman".

They say that honey attracts more flies than vinegar. I will keep that in mind when I'm wanting to attract flies. I know the real measure of communication, especially over the internet where most disregard anything that doesn't fit into their previously read impressions unless it really gets their attention and under their skin.

Nothing beats the bitter truth. The more bitter, the harder it is to ignore. I haven't stopped pointing out valid flaws in CRPG design so far ever since I was first commissioned for interface testing, or suggesting improvements that do fit into the spirit of the game and design, and I will keep my integrity by continuing this and keep the pertinent questions and facts straight, with the right tone to make sure they can't be ignored. That means you guys don't have to play the role of asshole. :)
 
Nothing wrong with being an asshole, as long as you pickl the right times to do so, something you do well.



Admitidly, you might seem a bit over the top in the begining of this thread, but after reading more and more of the interviews the more and more I have a fear that youre riight.


I just hope that they understand that fallout doesnt FUCKING NEED a new engine. They should simply improve the FO/FO2 engine, and make a new game using that.

Sure they might not like doing all that work, but in the end it will produce a game worthy of the name fallout three, not a game deserving you at your most assholeness.
 
I disagree. If Fallout 3 is to have any form of commercial success then it will need a new engine. The engine, as the FO1 devs have said, is outdated and there needs to be a new one.
The point is that any company needs to be commercially succesful to survive, and this means that they must create a new engine. They probably have to make it 3d as well. But this isn't a bad thing in itself, I'd love to see Fallout 3 in a new jacket, with better graphics. But I'd only love to see it like that if the original graphical feel of the game is retained.

Saying that it should use the old engine, however, is plain ignorant.
 
PsychoSniper said:
They should simply improve the FO/FO2 engine, and make a new game using that.

The problem is that the old engine does need a lot of work, has a lot of nuances that they can't use or easily keep track of, and frankly it would be one hell of a restructuring job of the codebase. To be honest, it would be best if they did have an engine, but modify it so that it suits Fallout's style of presentation, down to the tone of the artwork. Fallout 2 was released on what modifications they could do to the existing code and a miracle. Bethesda's coding format is most likely quite different, as every developer has their preferences on how to construct the various mechanics of a game. Plus, if I recall right, many aspects of the Fallout source were from standard Interplay libraries, so they would have copyright on them (which Bethesda would have to secure further rights for), but most likely all known copies are in the storage lot next to the financial records.

By the time they're done figuring out the engine and making the modifications, they could just as easily take a good look at the old games and keep to the same style within a new or modified engine, and add a few improvements that do fit into the setting and playstyle Fallout CRPG is known for.
 
Yeah, I know it would be hard and next to impossible, but I can dream cant I ?

And I wouldnt be opposed to a new engine, as long as they try to emulate the FO engine somewhat like IanOut does.

And Sander, I know it proably wont be done, but that's what my dream FO3 is, the FO engine but heavily upgraded.
 
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