Fauna, Flora, Factions, and Facilities of the Wasteland

[Ugly Kid]

I think a Planet of the Apes style society would be cool, although I’m kind of on the fence as to whether that actually fits well into Fallout, or if it’s maybe too derivative of, you know, Planet of the Apes. Do you think they’d keep humans as slaves like in the movies?

As far as environment goes, maybe I’m just old fashioned but I’m of the opinion that most of the world should be hot and dry after the war. It might seem bland and unoriginal but I like the idea of lush regions like the PNW becoming desert wastelands, it really drives home how destructive the Great War was to the planet. To bring up Planet of the Apes again, that (original) movie takes place around New York but the environment looks like desert/savannah.

Giant bison sounds cool, I would imagine they would’ve gone extinct considering that they’re already endangered before the war (and I can’t imagine the pre-war world was too concerned with wildlife conservation), but it could be an interesting irony that buffalo have adapted through radioactive mutation to roam the plains of America once more.

The apes would be anti slavery but they wouldn't pay very much for manual labour

 

[PaxVenire]

Don’t think self conscious apes could work in Fallout. Apes advanced as those in Planet of the Apes would be going a bit too far, but if they were like Maurice from the new movies that can only speak some words and mostly use sign language, that would be fine. Maybe even lower their intelligence a bit so they’re not too smart. Planet of the Apes, the original one at least, is post-nuclear. I don’t think they should be as widespread as PotA either. Localized would be best.

 

[PaxVenire]

As far as environment goes, maybe I’m just old fashioned but I’m of the opinion that most of the world should be hot and dry after the war. It might seem bland and unoriginal but I like the idea of lush regions like the PNW becoming desert wastelands, it really drives home how destructive the Great War was to the planet. To bring up Planet of the Apes again, that (original) movie takes place around New York but the environment looks like desert/savannah.

That New York scene was fantastic for the movie’s big twist, but I don’t think the entirety of the world should be desert. Maybe initial impact zones could be completely glassed, but I think the fallout and radiation that comes after the blast is more interesting for its effects on a region than just desert everywhere. America is a huge country with many biomes, it’d be a shame to put it to waste. Also the effects on fauna and flora crucial to those ecosystems would be irreparable. It’s realistic to show the effects of global nuclear war, but would be really hard to make a post-war society and stories believable in an area where the desert was simply not there before.

 

[Iprovidelittlepianos]

I posted this idea already on Proletaren’s rewrite of Fallout 3 thread, but in case anyone missed it:
“I think the Pitt’s Trogs could make a fine orc-like enemy for the east coast. Radioactive industrial waste could’ve contaminated various rivers along the east coast, not just the Ohio. They don’t have to look like Pitt Trogs either, Tolkien-esque orcs already look like deformed mutants (in the films at least). This could also factor into the whole Project Purity thing. Now you’d be helping put an end to the source of this mutant scourge, instead just ensuring that a couple homeless guys get free purified water.

 

[Iprovidelittlepianos]

That New York scene was fantastic for the movie’s big twist, but I don’t think the entirety of the world should be desert. Maybe initial impact zones could be completely glassed, but I think the fallout and radiation that comes after the blast is more interesting for its effects on a region than just desert everywhere. America is a huge country with many biomes, it’d be a shame to put it to waste. Also the effects on fauna and flora crucial to those ecosystems would be irreparable. It’s realistic to show the effects of global nuclear war, but would be really hard to make a post-war society and stories believable in an area where the desert was simply not there before.

Well I’m certainly not of the opinion that making the whole world into the Sahara would be a realistic outcome in a nuclear war, I just think the desert wasteland is an important aesthetic that the Fallout universe should adhere to. I’m cool with pockets of different biomes existing, and of course I think that the further we are in the future, the more the planet will recover. I just think that most areas shouldn’t be much more lush than scrubland. I’d like there to be some forests and grasslands, I’d just think it would look nicer if the grass was mostly yellow and the leaves on the trees were sparse. But alas, not everyone agrees with me.

 

[Ugly Kid]

Don’t think self conscious apes could work in Fallout. Apes advanced as those in Planet of the Apes would be going a bit too far, but if they were like Maurice from the new movies that can only speak some words and mostly use sign language, that would be fine. Maybe even lower their intelligence a bit so they’re not too smart. Planet of the Apes, the original one at least, is post-nuclear. I don’t think they should be as widespread as PotA either. Localized would be best.

That's fine with me, Maurice is the best character anyways. The species doesn't need to be hyper advanced like humans but at least close to tribals in terms of technology and society. Maybe they could get aid from other, more advanced, factions.

 

[PaxVenire]

Well I’m certainly not of the opinion that making the whole world into the Sahara would be a realistic outcome in a nuclear war, I just think the desert wasteland is an important aesthetic that the Fallout universe should adhere to. I’m cool with pockets of different biomes existing, and of course I think that the further we are in the future, the more the planet will recover. I just think that most areas shouldn’t be much more lush than scrubland. I’d like there to be some forests and grasslands, I’d just think it would look nicer if the grass was mostly yellow and the leaves on the trees were sparse. But alas, not everyone agrees with me.

I agree now that’s it’s been more elaborated on. I thought you wanted the whole of America to look like the Mojave. But yeah, not too overgrown I agree with. Everything yellow and brown and dead looking initially is the aesthetic I agree with as well. For Appalachia, I didn’t like how lush and vibrant the forest region was, so I’m humbling it a bit more by making it mostly a forest of hard dead bark with some yellow and dead leaves littering the floor like autumn.

 

[PaxVenire]

What’s the general consensus on Feral Ghouls?

 

[Iprovidelittlepianos]

What’s the general consensus on Feral Ghouls?

Personally not a fan. Bethesda has made ghouls way too common, it’s almost like no one actually died in the war, they just all turned into mindless zombies. I also don’t think hostile ghouls should be portrayed so animalistic. They should be driven insane by the horror and pain they have suffered, feeling a deep, homicidal hatred for any normies they encounter. I think they would be better replaced by Trogs, as per my previous post.

 

[PaxVenire]

Personally not a fan. Bethesda has made ghouls way too common, it’s almost like no one actually died in the war, they just all turned into mindless zombies. I also don’t think hostile ghouls should be portrayed so animalistic. They should be driven insane by the horror and pain they have suffered, feeling a deep, homicidal hatred for any normies they encounter. I think they would be better replaced by Trogs, as per my previous post.

I really hate the whole “ghouls live forever and a lot are before the war” thing Bethesda implemented, but I don’t mind ghouls and ferals as a thing that happens to people exposed to too much radiation. Unlike FEV, which should’ve only been a West-Tek/Mariposa only thing, simple radiation is everywhere post war. I like the idea that “necrosis” I think is what they call happens and that most ghouls eventually go feral, that to me feels like more of a justification to ghoul racism than just “you’re ugly.” I do think most ghouls should be Wastelanders and Prospectors who’ve gone too deep into pockets of high radiation rather than just survivors of the war like the Vault-Tec rep (hated that.)

I think ghouls are fine so long as they don’t live forever because fuck that, and they HAVE to eat/drink/sleep. I also don’t like that ghouls are immune to radiation that simply doesn’t make sense to me. I think if ghouls are exposed to even more radiation that should just turn them feral of not outright kill them.

 

[Gizmojunk]

I really hate the whole “ghouls live forever and a lot are before the war” thing Bethesda implemented

That wasn't Bethesda, or at least that was in Fallout 1 & 2; and ALL were from before the war—the war is what made them ghouls.

Ghouls are the only living beings that remember the age before the apocalypse. You'd have to ask the original devs, but it really does appear that ghouls are meant as a twisted play (the reverse) of fantasy elves; they are their polar opposite in nearly every significant [clichéd] way.

 

[PaxVenire]

That wasn't Bethesda, or at least that was in Fallout 1 & 2; and ALL were from before the war—the war is what made them ghouls.

Yeah that’s true, in that case I suppose that’s a criticism I have for the originals then. I also really like Raul from New Vegas who is Pre-War. Idk then, I’m on the fence about it. Whether I like everything about them or not, I will say they belong on the East Coast moreso than Super Mutants, so I’m not opposed to them.

 

[Ugly Kid]

What’s the general consensus on Feral Ghouls?

I don't know about consensus but I would prefer if ferals were a separate mutant from ghouls.

The necropolis ghouls and the Van Buren ghouls had a similar creation and I think that general pattern of "crowded fallout shelter failing" is what could make ghouls.

Ferals being the survivors of the nukes on the surface could remain the same. But I think they should have some nuance to them rather than just being zombies. Throughout the games we can see ghouls communicating with ferals, so I propose that ferals are just people with sever physical and mental deformities. Maybe they have a disdain for normies because they're jealous or don't like being reminded of their past or something, but they shouldn't just attack on sight.

Ferals can't communicate verbally and maybe not even through sign language but maybe some hand gestures every now and then mixed with a grunt or two.

I don't know if these are good ideas I'm just spitballing.

 

[PaxVenire]

I don't know about consensus but I would prefer if ferals were a separate mutant from ghouls.

The necropolis ghouls and the Van Buren ghouls had a similar creation and I think that general pattern of "crowded fallout shelter failing" is what could make ghouls.

Ferals being the survivors of the nukes on the surface could remain the same. But I think they should have some nuance to them rather than just being zombies. Throughout the games we can see ghouls communicating with ferals, so I propose that ferals are just people with sever physical and mental deformities. Maybe they have a disdain for normies because they're jealous or don't like being reminded of their past or something, but they shouldn't just attack on sight.

Ferals can't communicate verbally and maybe not even through sign language but maybe some hand gestures every now and then mixed with a grunt or two.

I don't know if these are good ideas I'm just spitballing.

I clearly remember in FO1 the “feral” ghouls that attack you actually spew out words and use knives and shit like crazy people rather than zombies. And in New Vegas I think you can hear them scream “Pain” when they attack you. I like the idea that ferals are just schizoid ghouls. It’s a bit more scary to me since they retain more humanity. Like a crazy hobo chasing you or something lmao.

 

[Iprovidelittlepianos]

I believe Fallout 1 implies that ghouls were created through a combination of airborne FEV and lethal radiation. The backstories and character models of Harold and Talius attest to this.

But Fallout 1 also seems to imply that it was airborne FEV that did all the mutating, and I don’t necessarily agree with that idea.

 

[Gizmojunk]

Except Harold isn't a ghoul; he is an FEV mutant.
*He looks just like a ghoul of course... the plan was to have a lot more of those talking heads... until they realized just how long it took to make one using their available method.

 

[PaxVenire]

Mountain Holly:

The Mountain Holly is a large shrub found in West Virginia by 2102, producing flowers and Catfruit, the seeds of which produce more Mountain Holly. Before the Great War, they were called catberries and were mainly eaten by small birds, but has since grown to the size of big plums. The scent of the flowers attracts Mothmen who lay their eggs near the plants in trees. The larvae will then proceed to feed on the fruit, a general nuisance to local harvesters.

 

[Iprovidelittlepianos]

Except Harold isn't a ghoul; he is an FEV mutant.
*He looks just like a ghoul of course... the plan was to have a lot more of those talking heads... until they realized just how long it took to make one using their available method.

Talius is an FEV mutant as well. My point is, the fact that they’re explicitly stated to be mutated by FEV, combined with how similar they are in appearance to Necropolis ghouls, seems to imply that they are one in the same, to me at least. Of course, in Fallout 2 Harold has a tree growing out of his head, proving that he is different from other ghouls.

Anyway, sorry to derail the thread.

 

[eissa]

Mountain Holly:

The Mountain Holly is a large shrub found in West Virginia by 2102, producing flowers and Catfruit, the seeds of which produce more Mountain Holly. Before the Great War, they were called catberries and were mainly eaten by small birds, but has since grown to the size of big plums. The scent of the flowers attracts Mothmen who lay their eggs near the plants in trees. The larvae will then proceed to feed on the fruit, a general nuisance to local harvesters.

This is nice little touch considering that real world plant is delicacy for small bird, heling them to grow to be eaten by bigger predator. Not sure what are Mothmen though?

 

[PaxVenire]

This is nice little touch considering that real world plant is delicacy for small bird, heling them to grow to be eaten by bigger predator. Not sure what are Mothmen though?

A description for The Mothmen can be found on the very first post.